JohnRemnant

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I was moved to post this because it appears many people do not know what The Bible teaches about The Two Witnesses. I read many threads and comments from people through the years and this appears to be the case for what's taught in The Bible.

So this is my attempt to clarify some scriptures, with The Truth of what The Bible actually says about this in short order.

It is important to carefully question ourselves before we conclude a thing. A believer should always ask themselves, is what this man said, written in Gods word, and understood?
Or, is what the man says, something he made up. Is he confused?

We should question not only ourselves, but the actual churches that produce doctrine. Because most churches today do not teach The Bible properly.
They teach their own words. This is revealed by Christ Himself, as it was the first paramount warning given in Matthew 24, to beware no man, deceive you. And another place written in Revelation, only two, of the seven churches He addressed had no fault. The rest failed. For many shall say I am of Christ, a Christian, and deceive many. Mark 13, Matthew 24, Luke 21.

Now, concerning what The Bible actually teaches about The Two Witnesses, they are most definitely two named individuals. Moses and Elijah. They are The Two Witnesses.

This is very simple. God is very blunt about it. There is no guesswork allowed, nor room for choice. God said it. That is how it will be.

They are the only two that appeared with Christ, in the NT.
They are the only two mentioned in prophecy concerning that God will send during The Deception of Satan to rally His Elect.

Luke :
28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.

34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.

35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.

( So verse 35 God did not say, hear man. He said Hear Christ! )


Moses and Elijah, prophecy concerning them is written in The OT, and The NT.

Malachi
Chapter 4

For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.


Revelation 11 :


3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies:
and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

These Miracles, of no rain, and water to blood, and fire, where performed by God, through only two people in The Bible. Moses and Elijah.

James 5:17
“Elias (Elijah) was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.”


1 Kings 18:36
“And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word.”

37 Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the LORD God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.

38 Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.

39 And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God.

1 Kings Chapter 17

1 And Elijah the Tishbite, who was of the inhabitants of Gilead, said unto Ahab, As the LORD God of Israel liveth, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, but according to my word.
2 And the word of the LORD came unto him, saying,
3 Get thee hence, and turn thee eastward, and hide thyself by the brook Cherith, that is before Jordan.
4 And it shall be, that thou shalt drink of the brook; and I have commanded the ravens to feed thee there.


Now who is teaching John this prophecy in Revelation?

Revelation 1:


1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.


Matthew 28:18




“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.”



The Lord of all heaven and earth, Moses, and Elijah, stood before.
Revelation 11:
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


Zechariah 4:11
“Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?”

12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.


And we all know, who God turned the sea red by, Moses.

Exodus 7:20
And Moses and Aaron did so, as the LORD commanded; and he lifted up the rod, and smote the waters that were in the river, in the sight of Pharaoh, and in the sight of his servants; and all the waters that were in the river were turned to blood.”


A interesting note in this is God never allowed, any man to burry Moses. To this day, Satan inquires about the burial location of Moses. As Jude kjv, reports.
And Elijah, was seen taken by God into a whirling cloud.

These two will God send before the great and terrible day The Lord come. And He shall come at The Last Trump. Revelation 11.
Moses and Elijah will appear maybe two months before, Satan arrives claiming to be Christ...


God will, not maybe, but emphatically, will be sending Satan to see who has been listening to His word. And who has been listening to mankind and their words. Believer or not so called. And again at the end of The Lords Day ( Revelation 20 ) Satan will be loosed for a short space to once again put the people to the test, to sift the fakes from the reals.


So be informed ahead of time that traditions of men, will not save you. And will not weather the storm God will send to rend it. Ezekiel 13 kjv.


When this question was posed to Christ, concerning John The Baptist, did He say John was Elijah? The answer was No. John said no. Christ gave a Condition. "If" They receive Johns Message, and Receive Christ, then, and only then This is Elijah. They beheaded John The Baptist, and Crucified Christ. So it would not be. Instead, the curse is coming and Elijah and Moses will come.
 
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tall73

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I disagree, the two Witnesses will be just 2 godly human men. Who will be killed as mortals.

If Moses and Elijah appear, they must be spiritual beings, unable to be killed.

Elijah was caught up while alive, and per Jude, Michael disputed with satan over the body of Moses, which seems to be a circumstance we are only informed of in that case.

It doesn't state they are spirits at the transfiguration.

Is there a reason you think they are only spiritual?
 
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JohnRemnant

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I disagree, the two Witnesses will be just 2 godly human men. Who will be killed as mortals.

If Moses and Elijah appear, they must be spiritual beings, unable to be killed.


This idea you have adopted and probably the ideas of many who will comment hereafter , relies heavily on assumptions.
And preconceived notions ( doctrines of mankind, sayings).
Of what God will or will not, or can and cannot do. Given what The Bible says in those scriptures I highlighted in the original post , to me, it comes off presumptuous. So its going to come down to scriptural evidence.

The more scriptures that bring attention to Moses and Elijah by name, the more it must be accepted by The Christian. Otherwise we know what Christ says concerning The Churches in Revelation.

Scriptures in full, on any matter supersede mans ideas.
We have to bend our views around God and adopt His word. And if that means our ideas are found to be false, and confused then so be it. We should be humble and let them go in The Light of What God said.


I would ask you, in light of the scriptures:
Where does The Bible say, God will just use, two godly men, to perform what Moses and Elijah did?

God does not say this. He clearly says He will send Elijah.
And Moses. Were the two that appeared with Christ, said to be just two godly men? Or did they say Moses and Elijah?
A Christian must be one who disciplines themselves in Christs teachings. Not mans ideas. So discerning the difference.


There is no question that Moses and Elijah will be flesh at their return. But that is not a sufficient reason that your views are correct.

You said :
"""If Moses and Elijah appear, they must be spiritual beings,
unable to be killed."""

Nowhere, In The Bible does it say this. No where.

However, Christ transfigured before them from flesh to Spirit. And then He died. Its just as plausible, that God Transfigured Moses and Elijah, before their deaths. And will return to flesh to die at The Tribulation. This latter idea has more scriptural backing.

Elijah Never died. Moses is said to have died. Yet it is notable that God never allowed man to burry Moses.

I suspect many people will also lend doctrinal ideas, of one group or another. But what I highlight in my Original post is Bible...
 
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Carl Emerson

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3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

That is more than 6 years in sackcloth prophesying...

Hard to imagine anyone not knowing about them well before they embarked on the final power encounter.
 
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JohnRemnant

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That is more than 6 years in sackcloth prophesying...

Hard to imagine anyone not knowing about them well before they embarked on the final power encounter.


What do you mean by " knowing about them, before they embark ? Why would that have any bearing on who the two witnesses are?
Or what 6 years has to do with it?

On a different note, The time was shortened by Christ. That means Satan has five months according to Revelation 9.

So the witnesses will have a even shorter time.
Revelation 11, explains they will be known to everyone. Not because everyone likes them.

But it is Late. I have to get sleep.
 
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Carl Emerson

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What do you mean by " knowing about them, before they embark ? What does that have any bearing on who the two witnesses are?

In this modern age - can you imagine two guys in sackcloth prophesying accurately for over six years without being rather well known ???
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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I was moved to post this because it appears many people do not know what The Bible teaches about The Two Witnesses. I read many threads and comments from people through the years and this appears to be the case for what's taught in The Bible.

So this is my attempt to clarify some scriptures, with The Truth of what The Bible actually says about this in short order.

It is important to carefully question ourselves before we conclude a thing. A believer should always ask themselves, is what this man said, written in Gods word, and understood?
Or, is what the man says, something he made up. Is he confused?

We should question not only ourselves, but the actual churches that produce doctrine. Because most churches today do not teach The Bible properly.
They teach their own words. This is revealed by Christ Himself, as it was the first paramount warning given in Matthew 24, to beware no man, deceive you. And another place written in Revelation, only two, of the seven churches He addressed had no fault. The rest failed. For many shall say I am of Christ, a Christian, and deceive many. Mark 13, Matthew 24, Luke 21.

Now, concerning what The Bible actually teaches about The Two Witnesses, they are most definitely two named individuals. Moses and Elijah. They are The Two Witnesses.

This is very simple. God is very blunt about it. There is no guesswork allowed, nor room for choice. God said it. That is how it will be.

They are the only two that appeared with Christ, in the NT.
They are the only two mentioned in prophecy concerning that God will send during The Deception of Satan to rally His Elect.

Luke :
28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.

34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.

35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.

( So verse 35 God did not say, hear man. He said Hear Christ! )


Moses and Elijah, prophecy concerning them is written in The OT, and The NT.

Malachi
Chapter 4

For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.


Revelation 11 :


3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies:
and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

These Miracles, of no rain, and water to blood, and fire, where performed by God, through only two people in The Bible. Moses and Elijah.

James 5:17
“Elias (Elijah) was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.”


1 Kings 18:36
“And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word.”

37 Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the LORD God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.

38 Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.

39 And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God.

1 Kings Chapter 17

1 And Elijah the Tishbite, who was of the inhabitants of Gilead, said unto Ahab, As the LORD God of Israel liveth, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, but according to my word.
2 And the word of the LORD came unto him, saying,
3 Get thee hence, and turn thee eastward, and hide thyself by the brook Cherith, that is before Jordan.
4 And it shall be, that thou shalt drink of the brook; and I have commanded the ravens to feed thee there.


Now who is teaching John this prophecy in Revelation?

Revelation 1:


1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.


Matthew 28:18




“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.”



The Lord of all heaven and earth, Moses, and Elijah, stood before.
Revelation 11:
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


Zechariah 4:11
“Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?”

12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.


And we all know, who God turned the sea red by, Moses.

Exodus 7:20
And Moses and Aaron did so, as the LORD commanded; and he lifted up the rod, and smote the waters that were in the river, in the sight of Pharaoh, and in the sight of his servants; and all the waters that were in the river were turned to blood.”


A interesting note in this is God never allowed, any man to burry Moses. To this day, Satan inquires about the burial location of Moses. As Jude kjv, reports.
And Elijah, was seen taken by God into a whirling cloud.

These two will God send before the great and terrible day The Lord come. And He shall come at The Last Trump. Revelation 11.
Moses and Elijah will appear maybe two months before, Satan arrives claiming to be Christ...


God will, not maybe, but emphatically, will be sending Satan to see who has been listening to His word. And who has been listening to mankind and their words. Believer or not so called. And again at the end of The Lords Day ( Revelation 20 ) Satan will be loosed for a short space to once again put the people to the test, to sift the fakes from the reals.


So be informed ahead of time that traditions of men, will not save you. And will not weather the storm God will send to rend it. Ezekiel 13 kjv.


When this question was posed to Christ, concerning John The Baptist, did He say John was Elijah? The answer was No. John said no. Christ gave a Condition. "If" They receive Johns Message, and Receive Christ, then, and only then This is Elijah. They beheaded John The Baptist, and Crucified Christ. So it would not be. Instead, the curse is coming and Elijah and Moses will come.

I guess you are new here, but this topic has been discussed on CF for years, including by myself. Do a search. Yes, it could be Eliyahu and Moshe. Some believe they could be Hanokh and Eliyahu since they are the only two that did not see death.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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In this modern age - can you imagine two guys in sackcloth prophesying accurately for over six years without being rather well known ???

Scripture says they will be seen by the whole world...
 
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crixus

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In this modern age - can you imagine two guys in sackcloth prophesying accurately for over six years without being rather well known ???

Great point. I think that sums things up.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Not long ago someone was posting links to a website hosted by the Two Witnesses. They were completely anonymous of course, contrary to what the Bible says about them being quite conspicuous.

Yesterday an OP gave the names and the website - I think it was deleted by the mods.
 
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Carl Emerson

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This idea you have adopted and probably the ideas of many who will comment hereafter , relies heavily on assumptions.
And preconceived notions ( doctrines of mankind, sayings).
Of what God will or will not, or can and cannot do. Given what The Bible says in those scriptures I highlighted in the original post , to me, it comes off presumptuous. So its going to come down to scriptural evidence.

The more scriptures that bring attention to Moses and Elijah by name, the more it must be accepted by The Christian. Otherwise we know what Christ says concerning The Churches in Revelation.

Scriptures in full, on any matter supersede mans ideas.
We have to bend our views around God and adopt His word. And if that means our ideas are found to be false, and confused then so be it. We should be humble and let them go in The Light of What God said.


I would ask you, in light of the scriptures:
Where does The Bible say, God will just use, two godly men, to perform what Moses and Elijah did?

God does not say this. He clearly says He will send Elijah.
And Moses. Were the two that appeared with Christ, said to be just two godly men? Or did they say Moses and Elijah?
A Christian must be one who disciplines themselves in Christs teachings. Not mans ideas. So discerning the difference.


There is no question that Moses and Elijah will be flesh at their return. But that is not a sufficient reason that your views are correct.

You said :
"""If Moses and Elijah appear, they must be spiritual beings,
unable to be killed."""

Nowhere, In The Bible does it say this. No where.

However, Christ transfigured before them from flesh to Spirit. And then He died. Its just as plausible, that God Transfigured Moses and Elijah, before their deaths. And will return to flesh to die at The Tribulation. This latter idea has more scriptural backing.

Elijah Never died. Moses is said to have died. Yet it is notable that God never allowed man to burry Moses.

I suspect many people will also lend doctrinal ideas, of one group or another. But what I highlight in my Original post is Bible...

Believers are told Elijah's nature is like ours (Jas 5:17)

Could it be Elijah's prophesied coming came upon the early disciples at Pentecost enabling them to work similar miracles?
 
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Chris Thomas Shepherd

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It is my belief that the two witnesses will be the guardians of the tomb of Jesus Christ at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. They may well be Elijah and Moses incarnate.
I believe that the Antichrist will presume himself to be Christ (2nd coming) and will abolish the Holy Sacrament. He will say that since he is now present in flesh and blood, the bread and wine offered will no longer be required. He will fool many including the Catholic Church who, with manipulation by the False Prophet, will anoint the Antichrist as Jesus Christ arisen.
The two witnesses will be at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre to turn away the Antichrist when he visits this Holy site. The two witnesses will be murdered on the steps of the church and the Abomination of Desolation will be set in motion. The Antichrist will complete the Abomination by defiling the Tomb of Jesus Christ. This will take place in July 2072, 1260 days after the Antichrist is anointed on December 25th 2068.
I know you will read this and say it's preposterous, but I happen to know this. You see, the Holy Spirit that worked through the biblical prophets has also worked through me. Again, I know what this sounds like. It would take a long time to list all of the miraculous events that have happened to me. I have, however, written a book entitled 'The Trumpets' that discusses this as well as provides a timeline of events to occur in the future. These are events that have been prophecized in Daniel and Revelation.
I will not be reading replies to my statements, for I know there will be severe comments that I do not wish to endure.
I realize that I have presented no evidence for these future events, but there is reason presented in 'The Trumpets'.
God did not allow the publication of prophecies such as those in Daniel and Revelation for no reason; they are warnings to us of coming events. They allow us to prepare for the cataclysms and catastrophes that are to beset our world. The wicked are becoming wickeder, but the good are becoming better. The end-times are definitely upon us but we have just seen the onset. The tip of the iceberg, if you will.
 
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Carl Emerson

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I will not be reading replies to my statements, for I know there will be severe comments that I do not wish to endure.

James 3:17
But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy.

Reasonable in the Greek is able to be discussed.

If you are indeed a font of wisdom from God you would be able to discuss.
 
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Chris Thomas Shepherd

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James 3:17
But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy.

Reasonable in the Greek is able to be discussed.

If you are indeed a font of wisdom from God you would be able to discuss.
Agreed. However I am afraid of the potential persecution ie: this days electronic trolling.
 
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