Matthew 24:30-31

jeffweedaman · Jul 21, 2022

keras said:
As our beliefs are so far apart, I won't waste my time.
Shame really, as knowing what God does Plan for our future will make it so much easier, as things happen as Prophesied.

Thankyou for editing your post and removing the part where you referred to me as a dog and a pig.- MATT 7:6.

Spiritual Jew · Jul 21, 2022

jeffweedaman said:
Thankyou for editing your post and removing the part where you referred to me as a dog and a pig.- MATT 7:6.

Good grief.

keras · Jul 21, 2022

Spiritual Jew said:
such as unbelievers being cast into the lake of fire when Jesus returns, as Matthew 25:41 indicates.

Sure; it refers to the GWT Judgment.
Which is clearly Prophesied to happen a thousand years AFTER Jesus Returns.

The whole Amill theory; that we are in the Millennium now and Jesus reigns over the world now, is out of line with Bible Prophecy, let alone the reality of the present world, that to argue with believers of that idea, is to lower oneself to their wrong beliefs. The Bible, Revelation 20 alone, is proof enough of the AMill error.

keras · Jul 21, 2022

Spiritual Jew said:
Good grief.

Just a heads up: I did use Matthew 7:6, in my frustration, but removed it quickly, as I do respect all the other posters here. They are learned and wise, but sadly, they are generally incapable of understanding what God has planned for our future. God has made it that way. Matthew 11:25-26

Spiritual Jew · Jul 21, 2022

keras said:
Sure; it refers to the GWT Judgment.

Okay. Now, let's look at the context of the timing of the verse then. I'll quote the relevant verses for reference.

Matthew 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world...41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

So, first, it's established in verse 31 that this is a judgment taking place at Christ's return. At that time (not 1000+ years later) He separates all people into two groups that are figuratively called the sheep ("the righteous) and the goats (the "cursed"). He then, at that time (not 1000+ years later) puts the sheep on His right and the goats on His left. Then, at that time (not 1000+ years later) He tells the sheep to take their inheritance of the kingdom prepared for them since the creation of the world. And then at that time (not 1000+ years later) He tells the goats to "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels". So, if Matthew 25:41 occurs at the GWT judgment, as you agree it does, then that means Matthew 25:31-46 is portraying the GWT judgment and it means that it will occur just after Christ returns.

Which is clearly Prophesied to happen a thousand years AFTER Jesus Returns.

Matthew 25:31-46 clearly says otherwise, but you don't care about that. You will change any text you can find that doesn't agree with your understanding of Revelation 19-20 to line up with your understanding of Revelation 19-20. You do that instead of adjusting your understanding of Revelation 19-20 to line up with clear scripture like Matthew 25:31-46 and other scripture which clearly teaches that there is only one future judgment day, not two.

The whole Amill theory; that we are in the Millennium now and Jesus reigns over the world now, is out of line with Bible Prophecy

Except that it's not out of line with Bible prophecy at all. You choose to ignore what passages like these clearly indicate:

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Ephesians 1:19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

let alone the reality of the present world

It only is out of line with your flawed understanding of Christ's reign and the binding of Satan, not with scripture.

that to argue with believers of that idea, is to lower oneself to their wrong beliefs. The Bible, Revelation 20 alone, is proof enough of the AMill error.

Matthew 25:31-46 is in the Bible and it proves that your interpretation of Revelation 20 is wrong.

Spiritual Jew · Jul 21, 2022

keras said:
Just a heads up: I did use Matthew 7:6, in my frustration, but removed it quickly, as I do respect all the other posters here.

You have a strange way of showing it. That wasn't the first time you applied a verse about unbelievers to posters here.

They are learned and wise, but sadly, they are generally incapable of understanding what God has planned for our future. God has made it that way. Matthew 11:25-26

You are not the one to make that determination. You have way too high of an opinion of yourself.

Timtofly · Jul 21, 2022

Spiritual Jew said:
So, first, it's established in verse 31 that this is a judgment taking place at Christ's return. At that time (not 1000+ years later) He separates all people into two groups that are figuratively called the sheep ("the righteous) and the goats (the "cursed"). He then, at that time (not 1000+ years later) puts the sheep on His right and the goats on His left. Then, at that time (not 1000+ years later) He tells the sheep to take their inheritance of the kingdom prepared for them since the creation of the world. And then at that time (not 1000+ years later) He tells the goats to "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels". So, if Matthew 25:41 occurs at the GWT judgment, as you agree it does, then that means Matthew 25:31-46 is portraying the GWT judgment and it means that it will occur just after Christ returns.

Why is an Amil straightening out a Pre-mill on how to interpret the Millennial Reign of Christ the King?

The sheep get to reign on earth 1,000 years. That is the Day of the Lord. The goats are placed in the LOF. So will the beast and the FP 42 months later. The LOF exists outside of time or not. The Bible never declares "where" the LOF exactly is. We do see it prior to and after present reality. So we know the "when". It is a separate phenomenon that starts soon after the Second Coming and is around the whole 1,000 years. The beast, FP, goats, and tares are all cast into the LOF prior to the Millennial Kingdom.

keras · Jul 22, 2022

Spiritual Jew said:
He tells the goats to "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels". So, if Matthew 25:41 occurs at the GWT judgment, as you agree it does, then that means Matthew 25:31-46 is portraying the GWT judgment and it means that it will occur just after Christ returns.

Despite your protestations, Matthew 25:31-36 do NOT say the the 'goats', go immediately into the Eternal fire.
It will be a thousand years later, proved by Revelation 20:14-15, where ALL those whose names were not in the Book of Life are then flung into the LoF. ALL the dead; the righteous from Adam and the unrighteous from Able.

Spiritual Jew said:
Except that it's not out of line with Bible prophecy at all

AMillenniumism does conflict with the plainly Written text of Revelation 20. Plus other Prophesies referring to the actual time when Jesus will be on earth and reigning from Jerusalem. Zechariah 14:16-21
AMill is an illogical belief, that makes Jesus to be a very poor and impotent Ruler, who we can't even see and who lets the world go to hell at a faster and faster rate.

Spiritual Jew said:
You are not the one to make that determination

Quite right: God has made it so the wise and learned are unable to understand the Prophesies. So it seemed good in His sight. Matthew 11:25-26
That this is the case, is proved by the plethora of theories, doctrines and sheer speculation from people here back to the early Church Fathers, who couldn't agree on what the Prophets meant either.

But as I also pointed out, Daniel 12:10 says that in the last days; a few people will understand. Pray to be among them.

Spiritual Jew · Jul 22, 2022

Timtofly said:
Why is an Amil straightening out a Pre-mill on how to interpret the Millennial Reign of Christ the King?

I wasn't. I was correcting his understanding of Matthew 25:31-46, which is a portrayal of judgment day and involves the judgment of all people.

The sheep get to reign on earth 1,000 years.

Wrong. That is not taught anywhere in scripture. Matthew 25:31-46 says they inherit "eternal life", so what would be the point of reigning on earth for 1,000 years when they are inheriting "eternal life"?

The goats are placed in the LOF.

The timing is when the Son of man comes with His angels and we know unbelievers are cast into the LOF after the thousand years, so you need to put two and two together and realize that Christ returns AFTER the thousand years.

Spiritual Jew · Jul 22, 2022

keras said:
Despite your protestations, Matthew 25:31-36 do NOT say the the 'goats', go immediately into the Eternal fire.
It will be a thousand years later, proved by Revelation 20:14-15, where ALL those whose names were not in the Book of Life are then flung into the LoF. ALL the dead; the righteous from Adam and the unrighteous from Able.

It very clearly indicates that the goats are gathered before the throne when Christ returns. You want me to believe that, despite already being before His throne at that time, they are not actually cast into the eternal fire until a thousand years (plus Satan's little season) later? That makes no sense whatsoever.

AMillenniumism does conflict with the plainly Written text of Revelation 20. Plus other Prophesies referring to the actual time when Jesus will be on earth and reigning from Jerusalem. Zechariah 14:16-21
AMill is an illogical belief, that makes Jesus to be a very poor and impotent Ruler, who we can't even see and who lets the world go to hell at a faster and faster rate.

Your rhetoric doesn't change what passages like Matthew 25:31-46 clearly indicate.

Quite right: God has made it so the wise and learned are unable to understand the Prophesies. So it seemed good in His sight. Matthew 11:25-26
That this is the case, is proved by the plethora of theories, doctrines and sheer speculation from people here back to the early Church Fathers, who couldn't agree on what the Prophets meant either.

But as I also pointed out, Daniel 12:10 says that in the last days; a few people will understand. Pray to be among them.

As I already pointed out, you are interpreting Daniel 12:10 wrongly. How are you concluding that it says few will understand when that is not at all what it says?

Daniel 12:10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

Where are you seeing that this says few will understand? Instead, it says many will be purified and that only the wicked will not understand, but the wise will understand. Are you saying I'm wicked?

keras · Jul 22, 2022

Spiritual Jew said:
Your rhetoric doesn't change what passages like Matthew 25:31-46 clearly indicate.

I showed you where the AMill belief is refuted.
Your way of Bible interpretation is to ignore, spiritualize or throw into the past anything that conflicts with The Amill theory.
Jesus WILL be King of the world; ...from Zion, You will reign over Your enemies. Psalms 110:2

Spiritual Jew said:
Where are you seeing that this says few will understand?

Actually, many prophesies say that none will fully understand God's Plans for mankind. The best we can hope for is to see thru the glass dimly and to believe what the Prophets really do say, without any overlay of commentaries or Bible College brainwashing.

Spiritual Jew · Jul 22, 2022

keras said:
I showed you where the AMill belief is refuted.

Where you THINK it is refuted, but I find your arguments to be very weak.

Your way of Bible interpretation is to ignore, spiritualize or throw into the past anything that conflicts with The Amill theory.

False accusations get you nowhere.

Jesus WILL be King of the world; ...from Zion, You will reign over Your enemies. Psalms 110:2

He IS the King of the world. It's a shame you don't realize it. Think of any king from any time in history. Did everyone he reigned over always obey him? No. Did that mean he wasn't king just because not everyone did what he wanted? Of course not.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Actually, many prophesies say that none will fully understand God's Plans for mankind. The best we can hope for is to see thru the glass dimly and to believe what the Prophets really do say, without any overlay of commentaries or Bible College brainwashing.

I asked you about Daniel 12:10 in particular. Why are you avoiding the fact that you falsely claimed that it says few will understand? It absolutely does not say that. I asked you to show me where and you noticeably did not do that. Because you can't.

keras · Jul 22, 2022

Spiritual Jew said:
Where you THINK it is refuted, but I find your arguments to be very weak.

So Psalms 110:2 is weak? It makes a plain factual statement. Jesus will reign as King from Zion.

Spiritual Jew said:
False accusations get you nowhere.

It isn't false to accuse AMill believers of spiritualizing or ignoring Revelation 20.

Spiritual Jew said:
I asked you about Daniel 12:10 in particular. Why are you avoiding the fact that you falsely claimed that it says few will understand? It absolutely does not say that. I asked you to show me where and you noticeably did not do that. Because you can't.

Daniel 12:10b ....only the wise leaders will understand. REBible
The leaders; can only be a few people.

AMillenniumism is a crock. It isn't logical, sensible or Biblical.
In days to come, the Lord's House will be set on the high place. The nations will go to it, for people will say: Let us go up to the God of Jacob, for His instruction, so we will walk in the right path. Isaiah 2:2-3

Timtofly · Jul 22, 2022

Spiritual Jew said:
Wrong. That is not taught anywhere in scripture. Matthew 25:31-46 says they inherit "eternal life", so what would be the point of reigning on earth for 1,000 years when they are inheriting "eternal life"?

Eternal life means never dying again. Living on earth for the next billion years starts with a 1,000 year reign of Christ. Eternal life does not mean eternal reality. Why not more realities to come? Do you really think that all God ever planned was just 6,000 years of sin between 2 Eternal nothingness (non physical reality)?

Spiritual Jew said:
The timing is when the Son of man comes with His angels and we know unbelievers are cast into the LOF after the thousand years, so you need to put two and two together and realize that Christ returns AFTER the thousand years.

The problem is that the Second Coming has been after 1992 years.

Spiritual Jew · Jul 25, 2022

keras said:
So Psalms 110:2 is weak? It makes a plain factual statement. Jesus will reign as King from Zion.

You know I would never say any verse is weak, so why would you ask a question like that? I, of course, am calling your arguments weak, not the scriptures. Jesus reigns as king now from Zion. You have the wrong Zion in mind.

Hebrews 12:18 You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; 22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

It isn't false to accuse AMill believers of spiritualizing or ignoring Revelation 20.

We certainly don't ignore it. We interpret it in such a way that doesn't contradict other scripture, unlike yourself.

Daniel 12:10b ....only the wise leaders will understand. REBible
The leaders; can only be a few people.

That's a bad translation of the verse. The wise and the wicked are contrasted in that verse. Why would only wise leaders understand? Would they all be incapable of teaching others so that they too can understand?

Daneil 12:10 (NIV) Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

The wise are those who are "purified, made spotless and refined". It says there are many, not a few.

AMillenniumism is a crock. It isn't logical, sensible or Biblical.

I could say the same about Premillennialism, but it is pointless to make claims like that without being able to back it up. And you can't.

keras · Jul 25, 2022

Spiritual Jew said:
You know I would never say any verse is weak, so why would you ask a question like that? I, of course, am calling your arguments weak, not the scriptures. Jesus reigns as king now from Zion. You have the wrong Zion in mind.

Psalms 110:1-7 is plainly talking about an earthly Kingdom, which Jesus will reign over after His enemies have been made His footstool.
Your attempt to spiritualize and make the Kingdom now, fail when Bible prophecy is properly understood.

Spiritual Jew said:
We certainly don't ignore it. We interpret it in such a way that doesn't contradict other scripture, unlike yourself.

It is the AMill interpretation of Revelation 20 which does violence to plainly stated scripture.
There ARE other Prophesies that confirm the literal Millennium. Hosea 6:2

Spiritual Jew said:
Daneil 12:10 (NIV) Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

The wise are those who are "purified, made spotless and refined". It says there are many, not a few.

That only a few will understand the end times Prophesies, is confirmed by the reality of the shocking confusion, wild assertions and guesswork of people about what God has planned for the end times.
I have yet to see a proper, scripturally correct sequence of the last days events from anyone here.
That people don't agree with my beliefs on this subject, is because they have chosen to believe false theories and fables.

Spiritual Jew · Jul 25, 2022

keras said:
Psalms 110:1-7 is plainly talking about an earthly Kingdom, which Jesus will reign over after His enemies have been made His footstool.
Your attempt to spiritualize and make the Kingdom now, fail when Bible prophecy is properly understood.

It is the AMill interpretation of Revelation 20 which does violence to plainly stated scripture.
There ARE other Prophesies that confirm the literal Millennium. Hosea 6:2

Yeah yeah.

That only a few will understand the end times Prophesies, is confirmed by the reality of the shocking confusion, wild assertions and guesswork of people about what God has planned for the end times.
I have yet to see a proper, scripturally correct sequence of the last days events from anyone here.
That people don't agree with my beliefs on this subject, is because they have chosen to believe false theories and fables.

So, somehow, only you have it right. It's a miracle! LOL. Regarding Daniel 12:10, it says the wicked would not understand. So, by using that verse in reference to the rest of us, you're saying we're all wicked while you're the wise one. Okay, thanks a lot, pal.

jeffweedaman · Jul 25, 2022

Spiritual Jew said:
Yeah yeah.

So, somehow, only you have it right. It's a miracle! LOL. Regarding Daniel 12:10, it says the wicked would not understand. So, by using that verse in reference to the rest of us, you're saying we're all wicked while you're the wise one. Okay, thanks a lot, pal.

Wow. Why is he still allowed to post ? So many false and vicious accusations against the bretheren here.
I am trying to sort this out with the mods here as we speak.
Not sure what is going to happen but God is not pleased.

Spiritual Jew · Jul 25, 2022

jeffweedaman said:
Wow. Why is he still allowed to post ?

I have no idea. It doesn't make much sense.

So many false and vicious accusations against the bretheren here.
I am trying to sort this out with the mods here as we speak.
Not sure what is going to happen but God is not pleased.

He doesn't seem to be aware of what Jesus taught about judging others.

Matthew 7:1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

keras · Jul 25, 2022

Spiritual Jew said:
So, somehow, only you have it right. It's a miracle! LOL. Regarding Daniel 12:10, it says the wicked would not understand. So, by using that verse in reference to the rest of us, you're saying we're all wicked while you're the wise one. Okay, thanks a lot, pal.

You have misinterpreted Daniel 12:10
In no way do I point to anyone as being 'wicked'; who will continue in wickedness and none of them will understand, but only the wise leaders will understand.
As serious studiers of Bible Prophecy, maybe people here are, or will be a 'wise leaders'.

Spiritual Jew said:
He doesn't seem to be aware of what Jesus taught about judging others.

When did I judge you?
I refute your beliefs with scriptural proofs and you don't like it.

Stop acting like petulant children and try to be like the Bereans, who carefully looked at all the scriptures and didn't jump to wrong conclusions.

Matthew 24:30-31

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Amillennialist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Amillennialist

Amillennialist

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Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Amillennialist

Amillennialist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Amillennialist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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Amillennialist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Amillennialist

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Amillennialist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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