Why Israel has been set aside !

readywriter

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When was Zechariah 12:10 fulfilled?

Joh 19:31 Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
Joh 19:32 Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who was crucified with Him.
Joh 19:33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs.
Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.
Joh 19:35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe.
Joh 19:36 For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, "NOT ONE OF HIS BONES SHALL BE BROKEN."
Joh 19:37 And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED."


The Spirit was poured out in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost, and about 3,000 from "all the house of Israel" (Acts 2:36) mourned for the one they had seen pierced a few weeks earlier and accepted Him as their Messiah.

Act 2:36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Act 2:39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
Act 2:40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation."
Act 2:41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.
Hello there @BABerean2

So you believe that Zechariah 12:9-11 was fulfilled at the crucifixion, and at Pentecost, I see.

Yet the context of Zechariah 12:9-11 makes that impossible, for it is very obviously set in the latter days.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Brightfame52

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readywriter

The nation referred to in Matthew 21:43, is redeemed Israel

Thats the church Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works

Ps 130:8

And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.
 
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BABerean2

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Hello there @BABerean2

So you believe that Zechariah 12:9-11 was fulfilled at the crucifixion, and at Pentecost, I see.

Yet the context of Zechariah 12:9-11 makes that impossible, for it is very obviously set in the latter days.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

What OT verse did the Apostle John quote from in the verse below?

Joh 19:37 And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED."


.
 
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Brightfame52

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1 Peter 2:9, is written to the believing remnant of Israel in the diaspora (or among the nations) (1 Peter 1:1-2), they are that holy nation in embryo.

1 Peter may have been written to jews, but they were jews that were part of the Church, the Body of Christ, and what was written to them, it was written to gentile believers[Cornelius] as well who are also part of the body of Christ.

These were believers that had been begotten again by the resurrection of Jesus Christ 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

This is a Spiritual People, a Spiritual Nation, the Church the Body of Christ. This is a people which are a New Creation in Christ. May God be pleased to open up your understanding.
 
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Brightfame52

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readywritter

Yet the context of Zechariah 12:9-11 makes that impossible, for it is very obviously set in the latter days.

The latter days commenced at the death of Christ, maybe even at His Ministry Heb 1:2

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

John writes 1 Jn 2:18

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
 
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readywriter

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That;s the church Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works

Ps 130:8

And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.
Yes, @Brightfame52,

Titus 2:14 is referring to the church,

Within the love of Christ our Savioue,
our Lord and Head.
Chris
 
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readywriter

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When was Zechariah 12:10 fulfilled?

Joh 19:31 Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
Joh 19:32 Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who was crucified with Him.
Joh 19:33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs.
Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.
Joh 19:35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe.
Joh 19:36 For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, "NOT ONE OF HIS BONES SHALL BE BROKEN."
Joh 19:37 And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED."

The Spirit was poured out in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost, and about 3,000 from "all the house of Israel" (Acts 2:36) mourned for the one they had seen pierced a few weeks earlier and accepted Him as their Messiah.

Act 2:36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Act 2:39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
Act 2:40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation."
Act 2:41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.

Hello @BABerean2

I have already responded to this, for it is a repeat of your previous entry. I have nothing more that I want to add.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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readywriter

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So is Ps 130:8
'Let Israel hope in the LORD:
for with the LORD there is mercy,
and with Him is plenteous redemption.
And He shall redeem Israel from all His iniquities.'
(Psalm 130:7-8)

Hello @Brightfame52

The reference above is very obviously concerning the nation of Israel and not the Church.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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BABerean2

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Hello @BABerean2

I have already responded to this, for it is a repeat of your previous entry. I have nothing more that I want to add.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

You did not answer the question?

The Apostle John quoted from Zechariah 12:10 at Calvary, and the Spirit was poured out in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost.

Zechariah 12:10 was fulfilled during the first century.

Anyone who claims millions of people will be saved at Christ's Second Coming based on Zechariah 12:10 should be preaching the Gospel now to these people.


.
 
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readywriter

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You did not answer the question?

The Apostle John quoted from Zechariah 12:10 at Calvary, and the Spirit was poured out in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost.

Zechariah 12:10 was fulfilled during the first century.

Anyone who claims millions of people will be saved at Christ's Second Coming based on Zechariah 12:10 should be preaching the Gospel now to these people.
Hello BABerean2,

Looking back I can see that you did ask me a question that I did not answer, I apologise.

BABerean said in reply#124:-
What OT verse did the Apostle John quote from in the verse below?
Joh 19:37 And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED."
* Looking back to John 19:37:-

'For these things were done,
that the scripture should be fulfilled,

A bone of Him shall not be broken.
And again another scripture saith,
They shall look on Him Whom they pierced.'
(Joh 19:36-37)

* Notice, the former Scripture was fulfilled i.e., in full: whereas in relation to the particular quotation that you question me about, namely, ' ... they shall look on Him Whom they pierced', it was not fulfilled; but it's fulfillment required that the Lord be pierced (See Zechariah 12:10). It was fulfilled in the case of those who looked upon Him, but waits for it's complete fulfillment when the spirit of grace and supplication is poured out on repentant Israel, that has yet to take place.

'And it shall come to pass in that day,
that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem,
the spirit of grace and of supplications:

and they shall look upon Me Whom they have pierced,
and they shall mourn for Him, as one mourneth for his only son,
and shall be in bitterness for Him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem,

as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
And the land shall mourn, every family apart;
the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart;
the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart ...;
'
(Zec. 12:9-12)

* The context shows that this reading is not relating to the Crucifixion and Pentecost: the order of events described is at odds with what took place on those two occasions, as well as the context leading up to and away from it in Zechariah. Here the spirit of grace and supplication is poured out upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, prior to the piercing, and not at least 40 days afterwards, as at Pentecost. At Pentecost also the Holy Spirit came upon the disciples yes, but it was not described as, 'the spirit of grace and supplication', but the equipping of the disciples of the Lord for the ministry ahead of them, i.e., the speaking in other tongues, etc.,

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Dan Perez

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So is Ps 130:8

And many miss what Psa 130:8 really means !

The Hebrew words SHALL REDEEM / PADA , stem is QAL and the aspect is in the IMPERFECT TENSE ,WHY?

Because God will forgive Israel MANY MORE TIMES and has no reference to the BODY OF CHRIST as all " in Christ " are a NEW CREATION !!

dan p
 
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readywriter

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And many miss what Psa 130:8 really means !

The Hebrew words SHALL REDEEM / PADA , stem is QAL and the aspect is in the IMPERFECT TENSE ,WHY?

Because God will forgive Israel MANY MORE TIMES and has no reference to the BODY OF CHRIST as all " in Christ " are a NEW CREATION !!

dan p
'Let Israel hope in the LORD:
for with the LORD there is mercy,
and with him is plenteous redemption.
And He shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.'

(Psa 130:7-8)

Hi @Dan Perez,

How wonderful is God's mercy and Grace!!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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BABerean2

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Hello BABerean2,

Looking back I can see that you did ask me a question that I did not answer, I apologise.


* Looking back to John 19:37:-

'For these things were done,
that the scripture should be fulfilled,

A bone of Him shall not be broken.
And again another scripture saith,
They shall look on Him Whom they pierced.'
(Joh 19:36-37)

* Notice, the former Scripture was fulfilled i.e., in full: whereas in relation to the particular quotation that you question me about, namely, ' ... they shall look on Him Whom they pierced', it was not fulfilled; but it's fulfillment required that the Lord be pierced (See Zechariah 12:10). It was fulfilled in the case of those who looked upon Him, but waits for it's complete fulfillment when the spirit of grace and supplication is poured out on repentant Israel, that has yet to take place.

'And it shall come to pass in that day,
that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem,
the spirit of grace and of supplications:

and they shall look upon Me Whom they have pierced,
and they shall mourn for Him, as one mourneth for his only son,
and shall be in bitterness for Him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem,

as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
And the land shall mourn, every family apart;
the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart;
the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart ...;
'
(Zec. 12:9-12)

* The context shows that this reading is not relating to the Crucifixion and Pentecost: the order of events described is at odds with what took place on those two occasions, as well as the context leading up to and away from it in Zechariah. Here the spirit of grace and supplication is poured out upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, prior to the piercing, and not at least 40 days afterwards, as at Pentecost. At Pentecost also the Holy Spirit came upon the disciples yes, but it was not described as, 'the spirit of grace and supplication', but the equipping of the disciples of the Lord for the ministry ahead of them, i.e., the speaking in other tongues, etc.,

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

If John quoted the piercing part of Zechariah 12:10 at Calvary, the "piercing" part of the verse was fulfilled at Calvary.

If the Spirit was poured out in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost, that part of the verse was fulfilled during the first century.

Based on 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, Christ returns "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not obey the Gospel. There is no Plan B of salvation based on race found in the New Testament. All races of people need to hear the Gospel, now.

================

New Covenant Whole Gospel:


Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him.

He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth.


Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by

husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?



Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart.


Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36)


Watch the YouTube videos “The New Covenant” by Bob George, and David H.J. Gay.

.
 
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readywriter

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If John quoted the piercing part of Zechariah 12:10 at Calvary, the "piercing" part of the verse was fulfilled at Calvary.

If the Spirit was poured out in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost, that part of the verse was fulfilled during the first century.

Based on 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, Christ returns "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not obey the Gospel. There is no Plan B of salvation based on race found in the New Testament. All races of people need to hear the Gospel, now.

================

New Covenant Whole Gospel
Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world.
On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him.

He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)?
Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)?
Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them?
Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15?
Who is the "son" in Psalm 2?
Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53?
Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34?
Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed?
Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart.

Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36)

Watch the YouTube videos “The New Covenant” by Bob George, and David H.J. Gay.
Hello @BABerean2,

I have answered your question with a reasoned response, in reply#132. To which you make no response. So, though you have come back with further questions, I do not feel inclined to answer any of them, for I do not feel my time and effort will be appreciated.

Yet, I was blessed very much by the Scriptures that I looked up, within their context, in order to reply.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Brightfame52

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And many miss what Psa 130:8 really means !

The Hebrew words SHALL REDEEM / PADA , stem is QAL and the aspect is in the IMPERFECT TENSE ,WHY?

Because God will forgive Israel MANY MORE TIMES and has no reference to the BODY OF CHRIST as all " in Christ " are a NEW CREATION !!

dan p
Forgive many more times ? Thats unscriptural, anyway Ps 130:8 is the redeemed church in Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

The Church Israel is Gods one and only peculiar people. The word peculiar means:

  1. that which is one's own, belonging to one's possessions

    1. a people selected by God from the other nations for his own possession
Thats Israel !
 
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Dan Perez

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Forgive many more times ? Thats unscriptural, anyway Ps 130:8 is the redeemed church in Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

The Church Israel is Gods one and only peculiar people. The word peculiar means:

  1. that which is one's own, belonging to one's possessions
    1. a people selected by God from the other nations for his own possession
Thats Israel ![/QUOTE

And when a person is saved , Eph 2:8 we were CREATED for GOOD WORKS and in Heb 6:1 Israel was not to lay the foundation of Repentance FROM DEAD WORKS .

The Nation of Israel are called DEAD WORKS .

We , the BODY of Christ created for GOOD WORKS !!

dan p
 
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readywriter

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'For we are His workmanship,(or handiwork)
Created in Christ Jesus
Unto good works,
which God hath before ordained
That we should walk in them'
( Ephesians 6:10 )

Hi @Dan Perez,

The words above, of Ephesians 2:10, apply to those referred to in Ephesians 2:5-6,

'Even when we were dead in sins,
hath quickened us together with Christ,
( by grace are ye saved; )
And hath raised us up together,
and made us sit together
in heavenly places
in Christ Jesus.'

I have more to say, but no time left to say it, so will close, with love to all, in Christ Jesus.

Chris
 
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There is only one peculiar People. Israel the Church Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Ps 130:8

8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.
 
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