Saturday or Sunday Church?

SabbathBlessings · Jul 22, 2022

Joined2krist said:
@HIM, God hates your Sabbaths due to sin, all self effort is sinful(Isaiah 1:2-20). I am not interested in discussing further, don't invite me back. God bless

There is no food or animal sacrifices in the Sabbath commandment. Exodus 20:8-11 It's about keeping holy the seventh day Sabbath in honoring God for all that He has done for us. "Remember" brings us back to creation Genesis 2:1-3 The verses in Isaiah 1:2-20 is not referring to the Sabbath commandment that is blessed, holy and sanctified and is the holy day of the Lord thy God. Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:10. Isaiah 58:13 Mark 2:28. There is more than one Sabbath in scripture and the annual sabbaths feast days are not the same as the seventh day Sabbath and one of the commandments of God engraved by God's own finger. The feast days came after sin and used animals or food offerings for the forgiveness of sins and points to Christ at the cross. Gods Sabbath is from the very beginning before sin and points to creation Genesis 2:1-3. In the New Covenant Jesus became our sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins so we no longer sacrifice the blood of animals which is not perfect, but the blood of Christ which is perfect for the forgiveness of sins when we repent and turn from sin. Nothing to do with the holy day of the Lord thy God and 4th commandment.

We do not have a God of contradiction- God cannot hate something that is holy to Him and commanded to be holy to us. Genesis 2:1-3, Isaiah 58:13, Exodus 20:9 The day God sanctified and blessed. You cannot reverse what God has blessed Numbers 23:20

Soyeong · Jul 22, 2022

Aussie Pete said:
The truth is that the sabbath was made for man, not God or the self righteous religious types.

If I were lost an asked someone for directions, then I would be putting my faith in them by obediently relying on exactly what they instructed to save me from being lost and thinking that I was relying on myself would not be giving credit where it is due. If God's law were His instructions for how to become self righteous and God does not want us to become self righteous, then it would follow that God therefore does not want to be obeyed, which is absurd, therefore God's law is not His instructions for how to become self righteous, but rather it is God's instructions for how to present His righteousness. In Hebrews 1:3, the Son is the exact expression of God's nature, so he presented the nature of God by setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to His law. God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so to rely on the law that God has instructed is to rely on God, not to rely on ourselves. Trying to become self-righteous has always been a fundamental misunderstanding of the goal of the law, which is why there are many verses that speak against earning our righteousness, though the Bible has at least as much to say against lawlessness than it does to say against self-righteousness, so both are errors.

Everyone should have a day of rest. That is necessary for health and well being.

It does not matter which day. In the early days of the church, people met every day. I like that idea but it's not always possible.

God could have commanded that everyone should have a day of rest once week for health and well being, but He commanded to keep the 7th day holy in memorial of when He rested on the 7th day of creation week, and by obeying what He commanded, we are testifying that there is a Creator who created the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th, while not obeying what God commanded is bearing false witness against that. The Israelites received a double portion of manna for the 7th day for 40 years in the wilderness, so they kept the 7th day holy together as a community in unity and there is nothing in the Bible that says it doesn't matter which day we choose to rest. The Israelites worshiped God on every day of the week including keeping the 7th day holy, so there is nothing about keeping the Sabbath holy that means that we can't meet on other days and there is nothing about them meeting on every day that means that they weren't also obeying God's command to keep the 7th day holy in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow.

The rest that Christians need to enter is not physical.

God's law is spiritual in that it has always been intended to teach us how to express deeper spiritual principles of which the listed laws are just examples, and which are aspects of God's nature. For example, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that justice, mercy, and faithfulness are weightier matters of the law, so the law was intended to teach us how to express these aspects of God's nature. If for example, God's just laws teach us about the spiritual principle of justice, so if we correctly understand it and if our goal is to walk in God's way by expressing that principle, then we will take physical actions that express that principle in accordance with what God's law instructs even in situations that God's law does not specifically address even though those instructions were given in the OT. God's nature if eternal, so the spiritual principle of justice does not change between the OT and the NT. If someone thought that they understood the spiritual principle of love, so they no longer needed to physically obey God's command to love our neighbor, then they would be missing the point, so correctly understanding the spiritual principles behind God's commands will never lead us away from physically taking actions that are examples of those principles. In the same way, correctly understanding the spiritual principle behind the Sabbath will always lead us to take physical actions that are examples of that principle, such as by keeping the 7th day holy.

It is rest from the attempt to please God by self effort. good works and slavishly following commandments. It comes by taking the yoke of Jesus on us, denying ourselves and carrying the cross.

Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God's law and in Matthew 11:28-30, he was inviting people to come to him for rest, to take his yoke up them, and to learn from him, not to reject his yoke and refuse to learn from him. By Jesus saying that we would find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where God's law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls. In Hebrews 3-4, they did not enter into God's rest because of their disobedient/unbelief, and in Ezekiel 20:13, it specifically mentions that they profaned God's Sabbaths. In Hebrews 4:9-11, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, we should rest from our works as God rested, and we should strive to enter into that rest so that no one may fall away by the same sort of disobedience, so using entering into God's rest to justify the same sort of disobedience is exactly the opposite of what was being said. The way to deny ourselves and carry the cross is not by refusing to obey what God has commanded, but just the opposite.

When we walk in the Spirit, God's law is no longer necessary. We will be pleasing God without trying.

Nowhere does the Bible say that, but just the opposite. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, in John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin, and in 1 John 3:4, sin is the transgression of God's law. In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God. In Acts 7:51-53, those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey God's law.

God calls that "filthy rags".

God does not command filthy rags. In Isaiah 64:6, it is not God speaking, but rather it is the people complaining about how God was not coming down and making His presence known. The reality is that the righteous deeds of the saints are like fine white linen (Revelation 19:8).

God has not led me to worship on the OT sabbath.

God has commanded to keep the Sabbath holy and Jesus spent his ministry teaching how to obey what God has commanded by word and by example, so the issue is not that God hasn't led us to obey what He has commanded, but whether or not we will choose repent and walk in His way.

Soyeong · Jul 22, 2022

Joined2krist said:
God hates your Sabbaths due to sin, all self effort is sinful(Isaiah 1:2-20).

In Isaiah 1:1-20, it is not that God hates offerings, the New Moon, the Sabbath, other festivals, and prayer, but that they were doing those things while their hands were full of blood, so they needed to cease to do evil, learn to do good, seek justice, correct oppression, bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow's cause. It notably does not say that the problem was with their self effort. God is trustworthy, therefore His law is trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so obediently relying on what God has instructed is relying on God, not on our self effort.

HIM · Jul 22, 2022

Joined2krist said:
@HIM, God hates your Sabbaths due to sin, all self effort is sinful(Isaiah 1:2-20). I am not interested in discussing further, don't invite me back. God bless

So rather than address the facts given to you in regards to Hebrews 4 and answer the questions you through what looks like a tantrum and stamp off?

Isaiah is speaking of sin in general. And In regards to your comment about self effort. If the word, the law is in our hearts through the Lord. It is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure.

BobRyan · Jul 22, 2022

Joined2krist said:
I am not interested in discussing further, don't invite me back. God bless

Out of curiosity - did someone here drag Joined2Krist to this thread???

Did someone send a specific invitation???

Aussie Pete · Jul 22, 2022

Soyeong said:
If I were lost an asked someone for directions, then I would be putting my faith in them by obediently relying on exactly what they instructed to save me from being lost and thinking that I was relying on myself would not be giving credit where it is due. If God's law were His instructions for how to become self righteous and God does not want us to become self righteous, then it would follow that God therefore does not want to be obeyed, which is absurd, therefore God's law is not His instructions for how to become self righteous, but rather it is God's instructions for how to present His righteousness. In Hebrews 1:3, the Son is the exact expression of God's nature, so he presented the nature of God by setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to His law. God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so to rely on the law that God has instructed is to rely on God, not to rely on ourselves. Trying to become self-righteous has always been a fundamental misunderstanding of the goal of the law, which is why there are many verses that speak against earning our righteousness, though the Bible has at least as much to say against lawlessness than it does to say against self-righteousness, so both are errors.

God could have commanded that everyone should have a day of rest once week for health and well being, but He commanded to keep the 7th day holy in memorial of when He rested on the 7th day of creation week, and by obeying what He commanded, we are testifying that there is a Creator who created the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th, while not obeying what God commanded is bearing false witness against that. The Israelites received a double portion of manna for the 7th day for 40 years in the wilderness, so they kept the 7th day holy together as a community in unity and there is nothing in the Bible that says it doesn't matter which day we choose to rest. The Israelites worshiped God on every day of the week including keeping the 7th day holy, so there is nothing about keeping the Sabbath holy that means that we can't meet on other days and there is nothing about them meeting on every day that means that they weren't also obeying God's command to keep the 7th day holy in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow.

God's law is spiritual in that it has always been intended to teach us how to express deeper spiritual principles of which the listed laws are just examples, and which are aspects of God's nature. For example, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that justice, mercy, and faithfulness are weightier matters of the law, so the law was intended to teach us how to express these aspects of God's nature. If for example, God's just laws teach us about the spiritual principle of justice, so if we correctly understand it and if our goal is to walk in God's way by expressing that principle, then we will take physical actions that express that principle in accordance with what God's law instructs even in situations that God's law does not specifically address even though those instructions were given in the OT. God's nature if eternal, so the spiritual principle of justice does not change between the OT and the NT. If someone thought that they understood the spiritual principle of love, so they no longer needed to physically obey God's command to love our neighbor, then they would be missing the point, so correctly understanding the spiritual principles behind God's commands will never lead us away from physically taking actions that are examples of those principles. In the same way, correctly understanding the spiritual principle behind the Sabbath will always lead us to take physical actions that are examples of that principle, such as by keeping the 7th day holy.

Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God's law and in Matthew 11:28-30, he was inviting people to come to him for rest, to take his yoke up them, and to learn from him, not to reject his yoke and refuse to learn from him. By Jesus saying that we would find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where God's law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls. In Hebrews 3-4, they did not enter into God's rest because of their disobedient/unbelief, and in Ezekiel 20:13, it specifically mentions that they profaned God's Sabbaths. In Hebrews 4:9-11, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, we should rest from our works as God rested, and we should strive to enter into that rest so that no one may fall away by the same sort of disobedience, so using entering into God's rest to justify the same sort of disobedience is exactly the opposite of what was being said. The way to deny ourselves and carry the cross is not by refusing to obey what God has commanded, but just the opposite.

Nowhere does the Bible say that, but just the opposite. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, in John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin, and in 1 John 3:4, sin is the transgression of God's law. In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God. In Acts 7:51-53, those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey God's law.

God does not command filthy rags. In Isaiah 64:6, it is not God speaking, but rather it is the people complaining about how God was not coming down and making His presence known. The reality is that the righteous deeds of the saints are like fine white linen (Revelation 19:8).

God has commanded to keep the Sabbath holy and Jesus spent his ministry teaching how to obey what God has commanded by word and by example, so the issue is not that God hasn't led us to obey what He has commanded, but whether or not we will choose repent and walk in His way.

I know what the Bible has to say. I went through these issues 45 years ago when a pastor tried to saddle people with a legalistic "christianism" that is not found in God's word. In fact, the opposite:

1 Timothy 1:7-9
…They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not understand what they are saying or that which they so confidently assert. Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it legitimately. We realize that law is not enacted for the righteous, but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for killers of father or mother, for murderers,…

Which one of those sins are you committing?

Galatians 3:24
So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

I came to Christ 50 years ago. The Law did its job.

Colossians 2:16-17
…16Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ.

I'll live in the light, not the shadows

Hebrews 10:1
For the law is only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves. It can never, by the same sacrifices offered year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.

I prefer realities to shadows.

I'd quote most of Paul's letter to the Galatians, but you have your own Bible. Suffice to say that Galatians contradicts SDA teachings on the law comprehensively.

Soyeong · Jul 23, 2022

Aussie Pete said:
I know what the Bible has to say. I went through these issues 45 years ago when a pastor tried to saddle people with a legalistic "christianism" that is not found in God's word. In fact, the opposite:

Is there a reason why your response to my post did not interact with any of the points that I made in that post? If God is legalistic for giving His law and Jesus is legalistic of living in sinless obedience to it and for spent his ministry teaching his followers how to obey it by word and by example, then we should all be legalists, but that's not what legalism refers to, though the Bible has at least as much to say against lawlessness as it does against legalism, so both are errors.

1 Timothy 1:7-9
…They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not understand what they are saying or that which they so confidently assert. Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it legitimately. We realize that law is not enacted for the righteous, but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for killers of father or mother, for murderers,…

Which one of those sins are you committing?

Saying that the law is good if one uses it legitimately is not against the law being good to obey, but against illegitimate uses of it.

Galatians 3:24
So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

I came to Christ 50 years ago. The Law did its job.

In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him, so the law leads us to Christ because it teaches us how to know him, or in other words, how to have a relationship with him, but does not lead us to him so that we can reject the law that he spent his ministry teaching by word and by example and go back to living in sin.

Galatians 3:26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, and he walked in obedience to God's law. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not sons of God. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law. So everything about being in being sons of God in Christ through faith refers to living in obedience to God's law.

Colossians 2:16-17
…16Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ.

I'll live in the light, not the shadows

Hebrews 10:1
For the law is only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves. It can never, by the same sacrifices offered year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.

I prefer realities to shadows.

In 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Paul spoke in regard to how Passover foreshadowed Christ by drawing the connection of him being our Passover lamb, however, instead of concluding that we no longer need to bother with the foreshadows, he concluded that we should therefore continue to keep Passover. The foreshadows testify about what is to come, so we should live in a way that testifies about what is come by continuing to keep them rather than a way that bears false witness about what is to come by refusing to keep them. In other words, if we believe that what Passover teaches us about Christ is true, then we will live in a way that testifies about this truth by continuing to observe it, so Paul was emphasizing their importance.

I'd quote most of Paul's letter to the Galatians, but you have your own Bible. Suffice to say that Galatians contradicts SDA teachings on the law comprehensively.

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God, so obedience to God is part of the way to receive the Spirit, however, Galatians 3:1-2 denies that works of the law are part of the way to receive the Spirit, therefore works of the law are not referring to obedience to anything that God has commanded. In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works, while he said in Romans 3:31 that our faith upholds God's law, so it is of faith, and a law that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-11. Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers of how obey God's law by word and by example and Paul's problem in Galatians was not with those who were teaching Gentiles how to follow Christ, but rather his problem was with those who were wanting to require Gentiles to obey their works of the law in order to become justified.

In Deuteronomy 13:4-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone is a false prophet who was not speaking for him was if they taught against obeying His law, so if your interpretation of Galatians were correct, then according to God, we should regard Paul as being a false prophet. The bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so if you think that Paul spoke against obeying what God has commanded, then you should be quicker to disregard everything that he said than to disregard anything that God has commanded, though the reality is that Paul was a servant of God, so he never spoke against obeying anything that God has commanded.

Aussie Pete · Jul 23, 2022

Soyeong said:
Is there a reason why your response to my post did not interact with any of the points that I made in that post? If God is legalistic for giving His law and Jesus is legalistic of living in sinless obedience to it and for spent his ministry teaching his followers how to obey it by word and by example, then we should all be legalists, but that's not what legalism refers to, though the Bible has at least as much to say against lawlessness as it does against legalism, so both are errors.

Saying that the law is good if one uses it legitimately is not against the law being good to obey, but against illegitimate uses of it.

In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him, so the law leads us to Christ because it teaches us how to know him, or in other words, how to have a relationship with him, but does not lead us to him so that we can reject the law that he spent his ministry teaching by word and by example and go back to living in sin.

Galatians 3:26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, and he walked in obedience to God's law. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not sons of God. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law. So everything about being in being sons of God in Christ through faith refers to living in obedience to God's law.

In 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Paul spoke in regard to how Passover foreshadowed Christ by drawing the connection of him being our Passover lamb, however, instead of concluding that we no longer need to bother with the foreshadows, he concluded that we should therefore continue to keep Passover. The foreshadows testify about what is to come, so we should live in a way that testifies about what is come by continuing to keep them rather than a way that bears false witness about what is to come by refusing to keep them. In other words, if we believe that what Passover teaches us about Christ is true, then we will live in a way that testifies about this truth by continuing to observe it, so Paul was emphasizing their importance.

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God, so obedience to God is part of the way to receive the Spirit, however, Galatians 3:1-2 denies that works of the law are part of the way to receive the Spirit, therefore works of the law are not referring to obedience to anything that God has commanded. In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works, while he said in Romans 3:31 that our faith upholds God's law, so it is of faith, and a law that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-11. Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers of how obey God's law by word and by example and Paul's problem in Galatians was not with those who were teaching Gentiles how to follow Christ, but rather his problem was with those who were wanting to require Gentiles to obey their works of the law in order to become justified.

In Deuteronomy 13:4-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone is a false prophet who was not speaking for him was if they taught against obeying His law, so if your interpretation of Galatians were correct, then according to God, we should regard Paul as being a false prophet. The bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so if you think that Paul spoke against obeying what God has commanded, then you should be quicker to disregard everything that he said than to disregard anything that God has commanded, though the reality is that Paul was a servant of God, so he never spoke against obeying anything that God has commanded.

You obey the Law. When, and absolutely it will be when, you break it, you are condemned. What should be done to you? Stoning is the appropriate punishment in most cases. The Law came through Moses. Grace and Truth through Jesus Christ. Go ahead, live by the law and see where it gets you. I will live by grace, by the Life of Christ within me, the Holy Spirit. He leads me and guides me. And He has not led me to Saturday worship. Dead religion is no substitute for a living relationship with God and His Son. I know enough about SDA to know that I refuse to come under the yoke of bondage that they seek to impose on ignorant believers.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 23, 2022

Aussie Pete said:
You obey the Law. When, and absolutely it will be when, you break it, you are condemned. What should be done to you? Stoning is the appropriate punishment in most cases. The Law came through Moses. Grace and Truth through Jesus Christ. Go ahead, live by the law and see where it gets you. I will live by grace, by the Life of Christ within me, the Holy Spirit. He leads me and guides me. And He has not led me to Saturday worship. Dead religion is no substitute for a living relationship with God and His Son. I know enough about SDA to know that I refuse to come under the yoke of bondage that they seek to impose on ignorant believers.

God is giving a day of rest - to rest from one’s work and rest in Him on His holy Sabbath Exodus 20:8-11- Hebrews 4:10 - how can that be a yolk of bondage? Sadly many don’t accept the gift Jesus is trying to give and instead live in the yolk of bondage by not accepting this free gift.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments and His commandments are not grievous. 1 John 5:3

Bob S · Jul 23, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
God is giving a day of rest - to rest from one’s work and rest in Him on His holy Sabbath Exodus 20:8-11- Hebrews 4:10 - how can that be a yolk of bondage?

Hi SB, may I remind you that the Sabath law was given only to Israel? When you used the words or written word to imply that it is us today that that law was written for, you are adding to what is written. Your rendition of Heb 4:10 is flawed. Why would the author of Hebrews tell Jews to enter Sabbath rest when they were already heeding the command? The rest the author was referring is resting in Jesus. It is a spiritual rest and we can receive His rest today.

The Sabbath became a yoke of bondage to all Israelites because none of them could heed what Isaiah wrote in Is 58:13. To all today who think they have to keep a day never intended face the same challenge the Israelites did. No one observes the old covenant Sabbath like God intended.

Sadly many don’t accept the gift Jesus is trying to give and instead live in the yolk of bondage by not accepting this free gift.

The gift Jesus gave to us is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. His command to us is to love others as he loves us.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments and His commandments are not grievous. 1 John 5:3

Read further into the chapter and find out what Jesus commands to us are.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 23, 2022

Bob S said:
Hi SB, may I remind you that the Sabath law was given only to Israel? When you used the words or written word to imply that it is us today that that law was written for, you are adding to what is written. Your rendition of Heb 4:10 is flawed. Why would the author of Hebrews tell Jews to enter Sabbath rest when they were already heeding the command? The rest the author was referring is resting in Jesus. It is a spiritual rest and we can receive His rest today.

The Sabbath became a yoke of bondage to all Israelites because none of them could heed what Isaiah wrote in Is 58:13. To all today who think they have to keep a day never intended face the same challenge the Israelites did. No one observes the old covenant Sabbath like God intended.

The gift Jesus gave to us is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. His command to us is to love others as he loves us.

Read further into the chapter and find out what Jesus commands to us are.

The renewal of God’s covenant promise of His laws in our hearts and minds is still with Israel. Hebrews 8:10. You don’t want to write yourself out of God’s covenant promise.

WHen one is in Christ you are grafted into God’s Israel which is just a name to identify God’s people. It’s like when your married, your spouses family becomes your family. God is the head of His family and if you are in Christ you become part of the covenant promise which comes with the law of God. Galatians 3:26-28.

The bondage of yoke are those who don’t love God and keep His commandments. Love to God is obeying His law. Exodus 20:6, 1 John 5:3, John 14:15, John 15:10 Obiedence to God brings peace Psalms 119:98, wisdom Psalms 110:10, Pslams 119:98, the law of God is pure Pslams 19:8, is perfect Psalms 19:7, holy Romans 7:12 and unchanging Matthew 5:18-30, James 2:10-12

You are either a bondage to sin that leads to death or obiedence to God that leads to His righteousness Romans 6:16 the choice is ours to make.

Take care.

Danthemailman · Jul 23, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
If you enter into His rest by faith - every day is a sabbath...

We find our "sabbatismos" rest in Christ (Hebrews 4:9) in contrast with keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law. (Colossians 2:16-17)

SabbathBlessings · Jul 23, 2022

Danthemailman said:
We find our "sabbatismos" rest in Christ (Hebrews 4:9) in contrast with keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law. (Colossians 2:16-17)

Not really friend, this is the definition of “sabbatismos”

σαββατισμὸς (sabbatismos)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 4520: A keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Colossians 2:14 gives context to Colossians 2:16-17. The commandments of God are written by the finger or God, the ordinances are “handwritten” by man not God so this clearly shows you that none of God’s commandments pointed to Jesus at the cross. Jesus kept all of His Fathers commandments as an example for us including the Sabbath commandment. Luke 4:16, John 15:10 1 John 2:5. So we should obey the commandments of God over the commandments of man.

Danthemailman · Jul 23, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
Not really friend, this is the definition of “sabbatismos”

σαββατισμὸς (sabbatismos)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 4520: A keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Hebrews 4:9 - So there remains a Sabbath (sabbatismos) rest for the people of God. (NASB)

*Notice that the Greek word "sabbatismos" here is used nowhere else in the Bible.

W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary points out:

Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. It is used in this passage not in the literal sense (meaning to keep a specific day, the "Sabbath" day) but to describe a period of rest for God’s people which is modeled after and is a fulfillment of the traditional Sabbath.

SABBATISMOS a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law. Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into divine “rest,” that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God. (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)

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SabbathBlessings · Jul 23, 2022

Danthemailman said:
Hebrews 4:9 - So there remains a Sabbath (sabbatismos) rest for the people of God. (NASB)

*Notice that the Greek word "sabbatismos" here is used nowhere else in the Bible.

W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary points out:

Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. It is used in this passage not in the literal sense (meaning to keep a specific day, the "Sabbath" day) but to describe a period of rest for God’s people which is modeled after and is a fulfillment of the traditional Sabbath.

SABBATISMOS a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law. Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into divine “rest,” that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God. (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)

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Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest.

Notice how your commentary doesn’t match this definition. That’s what we need to be careful of a little truth mixed with untruths.

We are warned of this very thing in scripture:

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Happy Sabbath all! I’m signing of for now, hope everyone seeks Truth in God’s Word as that is what we are called to do. John 4:23-24

BNR32FAN · Jul 23, 2022

tyleryhwh said:
Christ rose on Easter Sunday and Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all four books you can find clearly teach that Christ rose the first day of the week, now the Gregorian calendar and the romish calendar have never had a mistake and always Sunday is the first day of the week but above that point God has preserved the Jews and they have never lost track of the seventh day Sabbath or what they call in Hebrew "Rosh Chodesh" which is the head of the month/the first day of each month which is called the new moon, traditionalism is why people attend Church on Sunday, so the true biblical day to attend church is Saturday.

God spoke six days, it was created and on the seventh day God say's remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy, it's God's Word.

God never said the seventh day of the week and He didn’t say anything about going to church or worshiping either. If you start your work week on Monday and work six days then rest on the 7th day then that would be resting on Sunday. God chose Saturday for the Jews but never actually commanded the Gentiles to rest on Saturday or any particular day of the week.

BNR32FAN · Jul 23, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest.

Notice how your commentary doesn’t match this definition. That’s what we need to be careful of a little truth mixed with untruths.

We are warned of this very thing in scripture:

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Happy Sabbath all! I’m signing of for now, hope everyone seeks Truth in God’s Word as that is what we are called to do. John 4:23-24

So your saying that according to Isaiah 8:20 all Christians who don’t keep the Saturday Sabbath don’t have Christ in them? One could also reply with Galatians 5:1-6

“It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:1-6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

BNR32FAN · Jul 23, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
Are you saying we can worship other gods, or covet, steal etc. I don’t see this as something we are shown we can do freely in the new covenant or break any of God’s commandments. One of the last scriptures before the Revelation of Jesus Christ says blessed are those who do His commandments Revelation 22:14.

When Jesus fulfilled the law in means fill full. For example when one is married and they fulfill their wedding covenant- does that means they are faithful or committing adultery?

God gave 614 commandments in the Old Testament and His commandments didn’t stop at 10 in Exodus 20 He continued giving commandments on into chapter 24 and gave even more in Leviticus.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 23, 2022

BNR32FAN said:
So your saying that according to Isaiah 8:20 all Christians who don’t keep the Saturday Sabbath don’t have Christ in them? One could also reply with Galatians 5:1-6

“It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:1-6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

I don’t see your words written in my post.

The scriptures gives us safeguards so we know we are following the right Spirit (praise God!) Isaiah 8:20 is one of those scriptures. If you are not following God’s law and the testimony which is found though the prophets in scripture there is no light, meaning it’s not coming from God. God’s law is a light to our path Proverbs 6:23 and when we deviate by adding mans word mixed with God’s Word you are no longer following God’s pure Word.

Jesus gives us another example of this quoting directly from the Ten Commandments.

Matthew 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’-(taken directly from the Ten Commandments Exodus 20) and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

This teaching by Jesus clearly demonstrates when we place traditions of man over the commandments of God one worships in vain. These are not my words, they are the Words of Jesus. God commandments came in a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28 engraved by God’s own finger Exodus 31:18 and you break one of these commandments, you break them all James 2:10-12. There is no commandment for Sunday keeping, but there is for Sabbath-keeping written personally by our Creator and Savior who knows what’s best for us.

Jesus did not set us free to worship other gods, vain God’s holy name, break His holy Sabbath day or worship idols. I find it interesting that people always apply the Sabbath commandment only to these scriptures when God wrote a unit of Ten. Exodus 34:10, Exodus 31:18 Either you keep all of His commandments or you break all of them. James 2:10-12 and Jesus said we should keep the least of the commandments (meaning all of them) again quoting directly from His Father’s Ten Commandments Matthew 5:19-30

Faith is believing what God has commanded His children and believing what He asks is for our own good. Faith does not void the law, but upholds it. Romans 3:31 The Spirit is not in conflict with God’s law. The Spirit convicts sin (breaking God’s law 1 John 3:4) and is given to help us obey these very laws. John 14:15-18.

BNR32FAN said:
God never said the seventh day of the week and He didn’t say anything about going to church or worshiping either. If you start your work week on Monday and work six days then rest on the 7th day then that would be resting on Sunday. God chose Saturday for the Jews but never actually commanded the Gentiles to rest on Saturday or any particular day of the week.‬‬

If Monday is the first day of the week, then Jesus rose on Monday and not Sunday. This is why we don’t go by man-made teachings becuase it leads up down the wrong path.

God is in charge of His Sabbath, and He is not going to give us a commandment that we do not know how to keep. We have a God of love, not a God of confusion.

God made the week from the very beginnng. Work six days Genesis 1 and rest the seventh day Sabbath Genesis 2:1-3. The same model He used as His example, He gave to us Exodus 20:8-11 becuase we are created in His image. The 7 day week starting with the first day and ending on the seventh day Sabbath according to God Exodus 20:10, Genesis 2:1-3 never changes regardless of the calendar. So we absolutely know which day is God’s holy Sabbath day and what day Jesus rose when He went back to His Fathers work and kept the Sabbath even in death.

We are told to worship on the Sabbath.

Leviticus 23:3 ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation.

Isaiah 66:23 And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

There is not going to be Jews worshipping our Lord on the Sabbath in the New Heaven and New Earth and everyone else worships on a day thats up to them. Just like there is one Jesus and one fold and we should follow Jesus wherever He goes who kept the Sabbath as our example to follow. Luke 4:16

The Sabbath is God’s holy day and God seemed to have made that very clear and easy to understand- His Words, engraved by God’s own finger, spoken by God’s own mouth. When you are in Christ you are grafted into God’s covenant promise and Israel is just a name for God’s people.

Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.

Isaiah 58:13 If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,

I’m short for time right now but will try to add more later this afternoon if I’m able.

God bless you in seeking His Truth.

Soyeong · Jul 23, 2022

Aussie Pete said:
You obey the Law. When, and absolutely it will be when, you break it, you are condemned. What should be done to you? Stoning is the appropriate punishment in most cases.

It is not the case that if we can't have perfect obedience to God's law, then we are better off living in complete disobedience to it. If people were stoned for anything less than sinless obedience to God's law, then it would not have taken long for Israel to be wiped out as a nation.

The Law came through Moses. Grace and Truth through Jesus Christ. Go ahead, live by the law and see where it gets you. I will live by grace, by the Life of Christ within me, the Holy Spirit. He leads me and guides me. And He has not led me to Saturday worship.

In Psalms 119:29-30, David wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness, so has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, yet you seem to want God to be gracious to you instead of teaching you to obey His law. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him His way that he might know Him and Israel too, in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through His law, and in John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and Jesus, which is again is the only way of salvation by grace through faith, which is also why Jesus said in Matthew 19:17 that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments. In Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, so grace and truth came through the Law of Moses and Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers how to obey it by word and by example, so that is also how grace and truth came through him.

Christ lived in obedience to God's law, so that is the way that we live when he is living in us. Likewise, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, and in Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to it. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it. In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God. In Acts 7:51-53, those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey God's law. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin and in 1 John 3:4, sin is the transgression of God's law. So obedience to God's law is the way to live by grace, by the Life of Christ within us, the Holy Spirit, and your claim to the Spirit has not led to to keep the Sabbath holy is at odds with what the Bible says about the role of the Spirit.

Dead religion is no substitute for a living relationship with God and His Son.

For you to say that the religion that God instituted is a dead religion is to speak against God. Do you think that God taught people in the OT how to have a living relationship with Him and His Son, or do you think that they had no idea how to do that?

The Mosaic Covenant is often described as terms as being a marriage relationship between God and Israel, so they needed to be taught how to have an intimate relationship with Him, and that is the purpose of His law. The Hebrew word "yada" refers to knowledge that is gained by experience, relationship, or intimacy, such as in Genesis 4:1, where Adam knew Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. Again, in Exodus 33:13 and 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught His law so that Moses and Israel would know (yada) Him. In Jeremiah 9:3 and 9:6, they did not know God and refused to know him because in 9:13, they had forsaken God's law, while in 9:24, those who know God know that he delights in practicing steadfast love, justice, and righteousness in all of the earth, so delighting in expresses these and other aspects of God's nature through our obedience to His law is the way to yada God, and His Son, who is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3). In 1 John 2:4, those who say that they know Jesus, but don't obey His commandments are liars, in 1 John 3:4-6, those who continue to sin in transgression of God's law have neither seen nor known him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing the Father and the Son is the goal of the law, which is eternal life (John 17:3). The way to have a living relationship with the Father and the Son is not by rejecting God's instructions for how to do that as being a dead religion.

I know enough about SDA to know that I refuse to come under the yoke of bondage that they seek to impose on ignorant believers.

I'm not SDA. In Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is sin in transgression of God's law that puts us in bondage while it is the truth that sets us free. The view that we have of God's law matches the view that we have of God because He is the one who gave it, such as viewing it as being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12). The Psalms express an extremely positive view of God's law, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, which certainly matched his view of God, so if we believe that the Psalms are Scripture and therefore express a correct view of God's law, then we will share it, as Paul did (Romans 7:22), while viewing God's law as being bondage expressing an extremely negative view of God, which is incompatible with viewing the Psalms are Scripture. For example, in Psalms 1:1-2, blessed are those who...delight in the law of the Lord and who meditate on it day and night. We can't believe in the truth of these words as Scripture while not allowing them to shape our view of God's law. Furthermore, the authors of the Bible considered the Psalms to be Scripture, so they should interpreted as though they were in complete agreement with the view of God's law expressed in the Psalms, especially when Paul specifically said that he delighted in obeying it. I seek to lead people to also delight in what David and Paul delighted in doing, not to come under a yoke of bondage, but in the name of refusing to come under a yoke of bondage, you have refused to do what they delighted in doing, and have instead come under a yoke of bondage.

Saturday or Sunday Church?

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