Anyone up for a chat thread?

Paidiske

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Nope; I left late last year. Currently in the diocese of Wangaratta.

I'm aware of their review of the various bits of canon law to do with clergy, though, and the debate around the retirement age. The consultation process had begun before I left. I have some concerns about what they're proposing, mostly to do with the potential for various provisions to be abused; although it's a lot better than some of what was initially circulated.
 
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Shane R

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If there were mandatory retirement at 70 many Continuing churches wouldn't have clergy. Are there provisions for those on the retired list to take supply appointments? That seems to be how most of the local TEC diocese functions.
 
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Paidiske

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Oh yes. After 70 you can hold a PTO (permission to officiate) and take services or function as a locum. Some such clergy take on long-term locums which last a year or more. But at the moment, at 70 you can no longer be licensed.

That genuinely has both benefits and drawbacks. One of the concerns being floated amongst younger clergy, in particular, is that clergy who are more mature in age (and therefore more experienced) often are appointed to "better" jobs and then stay there. If they're allowed to stay indefinitely, opportunities for younger clergy to move become more limited. (As one colleague of mine put it to me in an unguarded moment, "How many ways do the baby boomers want to screw us over?")
 
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Deegie

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We ordained a priest who was 78 about 3 years ago. He just fully retired this year. He never served anywhere full-time though. He was part of a rotation at the bishop's home parish.

I'm guessing they didn't make him go to seminary? Or was he coming over from ordained ministry in another denomination?
 
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Shane R

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I'm guessing they didn't make him go to seminary? Or was he coming over from ordained ministry in another denomination?
He came over from the UMC. He has a D.D. and was briefly inserted as President of the Seminary! Also a military chaplain for ages - 'Nam era up to the 90s I suppose.
 
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Bob Crowley

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Nope; I left late last year. Currently in the diocese of Wangaratta.

I was just sticky beaking to see if you had any posts recently. I noticed you are now in Wangaratta.

Friends of ours (on my wife's side) moved recently to Markwood, which apparently is about 20 minutes drive from Wangaratta. They're Anglican, so I suppose it's possible they might end up at your church, although one of their sons-in-law is an Anglican minister himself.
 
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Paidiske

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I'm so new to the area I had to look up where Markwood is. It's a bit far from me - I'm up on the northern edge of the diocese, actually over the border in NSW - but they might find the parish in Milawa. Lovely part of the world!
 
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Shane R

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20220716_094708.jpg

20220716_103853.jpg

An episcopal consecration in Bogota, Colombia. My assistant, Fr. Joshua, provided translation (he's scheduled for consecration himself in December). This was the first consecration I have witnessed in person.
 
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The Liturgist

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If there were mandatory retirement at 70 many Continuing churches wouldn't have clergy. Are there provisions for those on the retired list to take supply appointments? That seems to be how most of the local TEC diocese functions.

Conversely if there were mandatory retirement at 70 many Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and Assyrian churches wouldn’t have priests, bishops or deacons, interestingly enough.

I myself encountered a retired Episcopalian priest at a liturgy at the Episcopal church in January in St. George, Utah, which was a beautiful liturgy, and he delivered a beautiful homily, and I felt greatly blessed to have seen him. He had previously been the equivalent of an archpriest* in charge of the cathedral for the diocese of Montana.

*By which I mean he was the senior priest there, like the Dean of a Cathedral Chapter at a cathedral church or collegiate church in England, but I asked him about that and apparently the cathedral for Montana is too small to have a chapter of canons.
 
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Paidiske

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I think by 70 I might be ready to step back and let younger clergy step up. Not that I feel I'll have nothing to contribute after that, but that it might be good to do so in a more assistant/supporting type role, with less pressure. (I mean, by then I'll have been ordained 37 years!)

I'm also very grateful for the retired clergy I've known who've been willing to provide counsel, support and care in parishes I've been in. They really enrich the life of the place without having to sustain a six-day-a-week working pace.
 
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Shane R

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I transferred Dormition to Sunday. If only my older daughter was taller I might not look so imperial in this picture. She also caught me just before I smiled for the photo but it was the straightest one she got. Spanish cut vestments, which were a gift.

Dormition2022.jpg
 
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The Liturgist

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I transferred Dormition to Sunday. If only my older daughter was taller I might not look so imperial in this picture. She also caught me just before I smiled for the photo but it was the straightest one she got. Spanish cut vestments, which were a gift.

View attachment 319731

My Marian Blue Roman chasuble is a slightly darker shade of blue than yours, and my Syriac style vestments are darker yet, but I am really digging the color on your chasuble and burse. It is an extremely delicate color…in the photo it looks almost like eggshell blue. Any chance we could see your stole?
 
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Paidiske

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I may possibly have griped about this before, but this week, one of my duties is to receive the latest group of local debutantes at their ball. What that has to do with the reign of God I really don't know, but it involves parish fundraising, so I'll have to smile sweetly through gritted teeth at the outdated bastion of classism and sexism...
 
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The Liturgist

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I may possibly have griped about this before, but this week, one of my duties is to receive the latest group of local debutantes at their ball. What that has to do with the reign of God I really don't know, but it involves parish fundraising, so I'll have to smile sweetly through gritted teeth at the outdated bastion of classism and sexism...

That’s still a thing?

Just a minute, the 19th century is calling and they want their culture back…
 
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Paidiske

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That’s still a thing?

Just a minute, the 19th century is calling and they want their culture back…

You're telling me. It's still a thing in rural Australia. I find it more than a bit appalling, but I'm told in a good year the parish can raise up to $20,000 from debutante balls (the mind boggles) so they're not really ready to let go of it yet.
 
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The Liturgist

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By the way, there are more egalitarian coming of age ceremonies for young women, for example, among the Latino population in the US there is the custom of the Quinceañera. to commemorate the 15th birthday of young women, and likewise among non-Latinos there is the related custom of the “Sweet Sixteen,” which applies to both sexes and is also connected to the freedom to apply for a drivers’ license. However unlike the Debutante ball, these are not limited to the upper classes of Hispanic society. Only in parts of the Northeast and the Deep South, for example, some of the exceedingly wealthy Yankee colonial towns in New England, will girls have a Debut.
 
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Paidiske

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I can't see why we can't just have a ball, without all the patriarchal, marriage-market nonsense, myself. They can dress up and dance and have fun. But no....

Anyway. At least ministry is never boring!
 
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The Liturgist

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You're telling me. It's still a thing in rural Australia. I find it more than a bit appalling, but I'm told in a good year the parish can raise up to $20,000 from debutante balls (the mind boggles) so they're not really ready to let go of it yet.

That seems a bit cynical. I mean, there’s no way I would do that unless certain accommodations were made to address the classist elements of it. Now, stopping it outright might be unfair to the girls…I know Mexican American girls strongly look forward to their Quinceañera as one of the great experiences of their youth, just as young Jewish people anticipate their Bar and Bat Mitzvahs, and American teenagers look forward to their Senior Prom.

Indeed its customary for the parents of teens to club together to hire stretch limousines to take their kids to and from the Prom.

Not to be confused with the Proms, which are an awesome series of concerts in the UK at the Albert Hall.
 
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