Confession and the confessional

Strivax

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I posted this here because I'm interested in the ethical and philosophical implications of the confessional.

So, I get where confession is coming from. The first stage of repentance involves recognising where one's faults lie, and beginning to make amends.

But I have my doubts about the confessional. The idea that a priest should judge me at my worst irks me some. It's not as if Catholicism was front and foremost about what we might now consider immoral, such as the possession of inordinate wealth, or activities that contribute to climate change.

Father: 'Have you anything to confess?'
Me: 'I have had lustful thoughts'
Father: 'Three Hail Mary's every day 'til your next confession'

Then there is the idea that confessions should be so private, so that the only people that should know the content should be the penitent and the confessor. How many crimes have been committed, I wonder, because this stricture forbad disclosure to the appropriate authorities?

Best wishes, 2RM.
 

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Yeah I'm pretty much opposite point of view, except for agreeing there are actually times when priests should be reporting people to the police and such.

I think if there was more Sacramental confession going on in the Western World you might not have seen the need for the invention of: psychoanalysts, psychiatrists and psychologists etc. those kinds of mental health professions appeared out of nowhere and sky rocketed just as Europe became significantly less Christian and traditional and more modern.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I posted this here because I'm interested in the ethical and philosophical implications of the confessional.

So, I get where confession is coming from. The first stage of repentance involves recognising where one's faults lie, and beginning to make amends.

But I have my doubts about the confessional. The idea that a priest should judge me at my worst irks me some. It's not as if Catholicism was front and foremost about what we might now consider immoral, such as the possession of inordinate wealth, or activities that contribute to climate change.

Father: 'Have you anything to confess?'
Me: 'I have had lustful thoughts'
Father: 'Three Hail Mary's every day 'til your next confession'

Then there is the idea that confessions should be so private, so that the only people that should know the content should be the penitent and the confessor. How many crimes have been committed, I wonder, because this stricture forbad disclosure to the appropriate authorities?

Best wishes, 2RM.
Main benefit for confession is in 1 John 1:9

structures around this important aspect of Christian life tend to be historical in nature.
 
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Strivax

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Yeah I'm pretty much opposite point of view, except for agreeing there are actually times when priests should be reporting people to the police and such.

Yes, of course the counter point would be that if people knew they would/might be reported on the basis of their confession, they would not confess, or just confess to trivial matters.

Best wishes, 2RM
 
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Ligurian

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I posted this here because I'm interested in the ethical and philosophical implications of the confessional.

So, I get where confession is coming from. The first stage of repentance involves recognising where one's faults lie, and beginning to make amends.

What does confessing your sins to one another (Matthew 5:24, James 5:16) have to do with persons not injured by the sin? Personally, I would never give a stranger that kind of power over me; who knows what he might do with it.
 
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pdudgeon

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I posted this here because I'm interested in the ethical and philosophical implications of the confessional.

So, I get where confession is coming from. The first stage of repentance involves recognising where one's faults lie, and beginning to make amends.

But I have my doubts about the confessional. The idea that a priest should judge me at my worst irks me some. It's not as if Catholicism was front and foremost about what we might now consider immoral, such as the possession of inordinate wealth, or activities that contribute to climate change.

Father: 'Have you anything to confess?'
Me: 'I have had lustful thoughts'
Father: 'Three Hail Mary's every day 'til your next confession'

Then there is the idea that confessions should be so private, so that the only people that should know the content should be the penitent and the confessor. How many crimes have been committed, I wonder, because this stricture forbad disclosure to the appropriate authorities?

Best wishes, 2RM.
Please remember three things;
First, everyone you know personally has probably sinned in their lifetime.
(I put the word "personally" in there so as to exclude Jesus and Mary.)
Secondly, admitting sin is difficult for most people.
Third, we seek help thru the offices of the priesthood, because they have more spiritual and practical training in how to avoid sin than the average person does.

If you think of going to confession as similar to going to see a doctor, it becomes a bit easier to handle.
 
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Strivax

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Please remember three things;
First, everyone you know personally has probably sinned in their lifetime.
True. I know I have. I don't need a priest to tell me that.
If you think of going to confession as similar to going to see a doctor, it becomes a bit easier to handle.
Indeed it does. Catholics could well have something to offer the rest of of us in this respect. But first they would have to demonstrate that the confessional made them better people. To the best of my knowledge, they haven't even begun to try to do that yet.

Best wishes, Strivax
 
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Valletta

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True. I know I have. I don't need a priest to tell me that.

Indeed it does. Catholics could well have something to offer the rest of of us in this respect. But first they would have to demonstrate that the confessional made them better people. To the best of my knowledge, they haven't even begun to try to do that yet.

Best wishes, 2RM
Does cooperating with God make you a better person? Catholics believe it does.
 
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Strivax

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Does cooperating with God make you a better person? Catholics believe it does.

I think so, too. It's not widely disputed among believers. But I cannot see the relevance of this to the ethical and philosophical institution of the confessional. Please feel free to explain and/or expound on your point.

Best wishes, Strivax.
 
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Valletta

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I posted this here because I'm interested in the ethical and philosophical implications of the confessional.

So, I get where confession is coming from. The first stage of repentance involves recognising where one's faults lie, and beginning to make amends.

But I have my doubts about the confessional. The idea that a priest should judge me at my worst irks me some. It's not as if Catholicism was front and foremost about what we might now consider immoral, such as the possession of inordinate wealth, or activities that contribute to climate change.

Father: 'Have you anything to confess?'
Me: 'I have had lustful thoughts'
Father: 'Three Hail Mary's every day 'til your next confession'

Then there is the idea that confessions should be so private, so that the only people that should know the content should be the penitent and the confessor. How many crimes have been committed, I wonder, because this stricture forbad disclosure to the appropriate authorities?

Best wishes, 2RM.
Forgiveness comes from God. When Jesus gave priests the power to forgive or retain sins Jesus did not give them the gift of reading minds. In deciding to forgive or retain almost all the priest has to do is find out whether you want to repent--are you sorry for your sins? The priest is not there to judge you, the priest is there as a conduit for God's mercy.

I think the number of crimes avoided because of confession is a huge number. Grace from God always helps. But let's just say theoretically the sanctity of the confessional was changed, it will never be so, but theoretically. Any criminal could just go to a priest not face to face (behind a curtain or barrier) so their identity is not revealed. Likewise if you were a criminal and worried a priest would recognize your voice you could go to any other priest in the world.
 
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sandman

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I posted this here because I'm interested in the ethical and philosophical implications of the confessional.

So, I get where confession is coming from. The first stage of repentance involves recognising where one's faults lie, and beginning to make amends.

But I have my doubts about the confessional. The idea that a priest should judge me at my worst irks me some. It's not as if Catholicism was front and foremost about what we might now consider immoral, such as the possession of inordinate wealth, or activities that contribute to climate change.

Father: 'Have you anything to confess?'
Me: 'I have had lustful thoughts'
Father: 'Three Hail Mary's every day 'til your next confession'

Then there is the idea that confessions should be so private, so that the only people that should know the content should be the penitent and the confessor. How many crimes have been committed, I wonder, because this stricture forbad disclosure to the appropriate authorities?

Best wishes, 2RM.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

There is no degree of sin with God, that comes from society and religion.

Sin is broken fellowship with God …It has nothing to do with your standing as a son or daughter …that cannot be altered as a born-again believer …
Just as in a physical family ….if you screw up your standing as a son/daughter is not altered… but your state can fluctuate if you disobey. The resolution in your earthly family.... as well as Gods family is to admit your mistake ….and say 50 our fathers and 50 hail Mary’s …. NO! …The act of contrition comes from the heart ….and the penance was paid for COMPLETELY By Jesus Christ.
 
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pdudgeon

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True. I know I have. I don't need a priest to tell me that.

Indeed it does. Catholics could well have something to offer the rest of of us in this respect. But first they would have to demonstrate that the confessional made them better people. To the best of my knowledge, they haven't even begun to try to do that yet.

Best wishes, 2RM
Again, may I refer you to Bishop Robert Barron's book,(refered to above). The idea is to shine God's light into the darkness of our lives.
That light allows us to see what is wrong, and being that the light comes from God, we can trust that what it shows us is not just what is wrong; any person could do that.
But since the light is from God, we can be assured that we are also being shown
1.what is right,
2. that it's God's will,
3.and lastly that He will be there beside us, guiding us where HE wants us to be.
AMEN!!!!!!!
 
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Paidiske

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As someone who hears confessions, I would argue that it's not the priest "judging" (at your worst or not). The point is the exact opposite; that the priest can hear and help you face whatever it is in your life, and then hold that against God's forgiveness. Confession becomes a space where judgement is suspended and forgiveness is pronounced.

As for confidentiality; for many people it's essential. If they think whatever they say will be making the rounds of the congregation as gossip, they'll never open up. I have mixed feelings about reporting crimes confessed, but I will say that that situation is so rare that it need not impact on the experience of confession for most people (either as penitent or as confessor).
 
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SkyWriting

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I posted this here because I'm interested in the ethical and philosophical implications of the confessional.

So, I get where confession is coming from. The first stage of repentance involves recognising where one's faults lie, and beginning to make amends.

But I have my doubts about the confessional. The idea that a priest should judge me at my worst irks me some. It's not as if Catholicism was front and foremost about what we might now consider immoral, such as the possession of inordinate wealth, or activities that contribute to climate change.

Father: 'Have you anything to confess?'
Me: 'I have had lustful thoughts'
Father: 'Three Hail Mary's every day 'til your next confession'

Then there is the idea that confessions should be so private, so that the only people that should know the content should be the penitent and the confessor. How many crimes have been committed, I wonder, because this stricture forbad disclosure to the appropriate authorities?

Best wishes, 2RM.

Not telling is usually not a crime.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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The history of Confession in the Church was not always private confessions.
In fact, there was a papal bull issued in the early church prohibiting private
confessions. Confessions were public before the congregation in the early Church.
However, only certain sins required a public confession. Apostacy, adultery and
theft. I may have those three wrong, but only three most serious offenses against God and the Church needed to be reconciled.

Private confessions didn't come about until persecution came in Ireland and clergy
were not allowed to preach in public and had to stay behind monastery walls. As a result, they built rooms along the outside walls, where they could give spiritual
direction to the faithful. This often resulted in the parishioner confession their sins to the priest and receiving absolution. This became so popular in the Church, that it eventually became the norm. Also, it helped the Church to know the attitudes and beliefs of the populace in the areas they served. Some say it was the Church's way of spying on the secular governments. Either way, it's what we have now. Keep in mind that the
confessional is where we receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation. That is, we are reconciled to the Church. It does not exclude God's forgiveness and mercy as some Catholics think.

A person who is contrite, merely needs to turn to God and repent and they should do this, immediately when they become aware they have offended God. This can be done anywhere, but sacramentally, it could be done in the penitential rite of the Mass at the very beginning. General absolution could be given at this time. A person who needs to speak with a priest could go to Confession for spiritual direction at another time.

That all being said, I'm not the Pope and things will not change according to my will, but
only God's will. :D
 
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Christopher0121

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I was a Pentecostal for over 30 years before becoming Catholic. As a Pentecostal, we strictly only confessed to God, typically at an "altar call" in which all came forward to pray at the steps of the platform of the church. You prayed directly to God confessing your sins and you got up after "praying through" and were feeling forgiven. Sometimes a brother, sister, or pastor would come lay hands on you and pray and speak encouragement, grace, love, healing, or forgiveness over you. Most never heard what you confessed to God as your tears soaked the carpet.

However, sometimes sins, habits, addictions, or circumstances of life would tear at your soul and you'd be able to schedule a meeting with the pastor for "pastoral counseling". You'd meet with the pastor in his (or sometimes her) office and discussion your habitual sin, addictions, circumstances, etc. for advice and prayer. However, I learned you had to be careful. Sometimes if you opened up with some things with some pastors, the pastor might brand you or begin avoiding you during social events and fellowship.

Now, as a Catholic the Sacrament of Confession is more like a blending of the altar call and pastoral counseling. I experience a very similar transaction in the Spirit in Confession. However, the priest who traces his authority all the way back to Christ through Apostolic Succession speaks the counsel and forgiveness into your life through absolution. Confession can be very emotional. It can also be very matter of fact. I've never had a priest interested in holding any sin against me. In fact, in the Confessional the priest can't really see who it is he's talking to. And when he's counseled and served a half-dozen to a dozen people at the very least that day before Mass he's not going to remember each individual or the sins they confessed. Sometimes the priest will ask questions offering a perspective you didn't even consider regarding your sin. This can sometimes be powerful... revealing your personal responsibility that you're refusing to see... or relieving you of unnecessary self-imposed guilt and shame. Sometimes the priest will give you guidance to follow and desire for you to report back to him on how it works out... and you have to remind him when you return and he'll typically remember. He's more likely to remember you in these cases. Sometimes Confession is face to face in an office or pew when no one is around. Technically, it can be anywhere. And it's been my experience that Catholic priests don't see themselves any different from you or me. They sin too, and go to Confession to their Confessors. There's very little judgment. And the sin is never brought up. I confessed some habitual sin that I know would crush my relationship with any previous pastor and earn me becoming a pariah at church... but the priest has treated me like I'm untainted even to this day. And he helped me work out some things to regain focus and live a less disordered life (the Rosary has transformed my life in many ways).

The Sacrament of Confession is a means of grace. God works through the priest who serves as a living extension of Jesus. Now, must one ALWAYS seek Confession to a priest? No. There are Prayers of Contrition one might pray daily for God's forgiveness, with the commitment to go to Confession the next opportunity to experience the Sacrament to bring things full circle. In such cases it was explained to me that mortal sin not only separates from God... but also separates from the Church. When God forgives you or me through a Prayer of Contrition we still must be made right with the Church, and so the priest's provision of forgiveness restores our standing in the Church.

It's like being Protestant... but having an additional means of experiencing grace through the priest of God. The Catholic faith is very interconnected. It's very hard to be a "Lone Ranger" in Catholicism. You need the Church and the fellowship it brings through the Sacraments. This design is very challenging but also very comforting.

So, to me... the Confessional is like a personal and private "altar call" with a built in element of "pastoral counseling". Today, I can't imagine Christianity without the Sacrament of Confession. I've even tried to experience the experience I once had and it seems very... well... incomplete. Saying, "I confessed to God and need no other.", feels rather... selfish and even self-alienating. I'm sure that for some Confession is a dry and mechanical process. But for me... it has become a very powerful experience I look forward to when I have sinned.

Also, when I was a Pentecostal, all sins were equal. However, in Catholicism there are venial sins and mortal sins. Venial sins are lesser sins that can lead one down the road to mortal sins if not addressed, but they do not sever one's relationship with God in and of themselves. For example, the occasional curse word. However, mortal sin severs one from God and the Church. THESE mortal sins are what must be confessed before partaking in the Eucharist. These are sins like adultery, murder, fornication, etc. Some sins are mortal sin in principle, though not specifically spelled out in Scripture. These must meet three criteria. First, they most be of a serious or grave matter. Second, the individual must know and fully understand that they are a grievous sin. Thirdly, they must choose to willfully commit said sin with full control of their faculties of will. This means what is a mortal sin for one might not be a mortal sin for another. For example, let's say a devout Catholic finds marijuana in his kid's room. He knows it is a grave sin. He's also drug free and in full control of his will. If he chooses to smoke it, he's committed a mortal sin. However, let's say someone was raised non-Catholic and developed a marijuana habit/addiction as an adult and after so many years they then become Catholic. And even after becoming Catholic they continue to struggle with the addiction. While they know this is a grave and serious sin... they are not in full control of their will. They find themselves occasionally caving in and giving in to the addiction or habitual practice no matter how hard they try to avoid it. For this individual, the use of marijuana isn't a mortal sin. Again, the sin must be of a grave or serious nature... one must know it is a grave or serious sin... and one must commit the sin with full willful desire and control of the will. Addictions, habits, and learned behaviors from past experience or exposure are often counseled as being lower than mortal sin.

Even the Bible mentions that there are some sins more grievous than others...

1 John 5:16-17
(New Catholic Bible)
16 If anyone sees a brother commit a sin
that does not lead to death,
he should intercede for him,
and God will grant him life—
provided that the sin is not deadly.
There is a sin that leads to death,
and I do not say
that you should pray about it.
17 All wrongdoing is sinful,
but not all sins are deadly.
 
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chilehed

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But I have my doubts about the confessional. The idea that a priest should judge me at my worst irks me some.
That's not really what's going on. Sure, there's recognition of the gravity of the sin committed, but the point is more about your current recognition of that and your contrition about it.

Then there is the idea that confessions should be so private, so that the only people that should know the content should be the penitent and the confessor. How many crimes have been committed, I wonder, because this stricture forbad disclosure to the appropriate authorities?
Someone without contrition is very unlikely to confess regardless of the seal. Someone who is contrite by definition wants to sin no more, and sacramental confession confers supernatural grace which strengthens us in the battle against sinning again. But without the seal his fear of punishment by the civil authority could well keep him from the Sacrament, to the detriment of both society and his immortal soul.

Yes, I'm sure we can postulate individual cases where this doesn't give the desired result, but on whole the existence of the seal is a great societal good.
 
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Confession is a sacrament where we receive grace and the complete forgiveness of sins. I've never felt judged by a priest when I went to confession. Most were complete strangers. Think of the priest as a doctor, and our sins as wounds. We are showing our wounds to the doctor for healing.
 
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