Am I a Messianic Jew?

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Yahweh Nissi

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I was born to an Isreali mother, but was adopted at birth to a nominally christian family and was not circumsised. I later converted to Christianity.
Am I a Messianic Jew? If so, what does this mean, and should it affect my practises in any way? (I reaslise that various passages, such as Acts 15:1-2 and Phil 3:2 make it clear that I should not get circumsised).
 

Talmid HaYarok

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Shalom Yahweh Nissi

Well, the important question is whether or not your Israeli mother was Jewish (Not all Israelis are Jewish), if so then that makes you Jewish too.

Messianic depends on what you mean by it, but to most people it means not just following Yeshua but embracing the Jewish (traditional and historic) covenant and relationship with the Lord. I know I would feel incomplete in my faith and religion without it. Have you visited a Messianic congregation yet?

Also keep in mind that Acts 15:1-2 and Phillipians 3:2 are addressed to Gentile Christians and that the word "Circumsized" itself was often used as a synonym for Jews (as in practicioners of Biblical Judaism, not ethnic Jews). Its a topic of interest to me as well and one that should be taken very seriously. Circumcision is a sign of the Mosaic covenant and if one enters into that you are expected to keep all of it and not just part.

Shalom, Peace and welcome to the Messianic Forum of Christian Forums!
 
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Today at 10:37 AM Yahweh Nissi said this in Post #1

I was born to an Isreali mother, but was adopted at birth to a nominally christian family and was not circumsised. I later converted to Christianity.
Am I a Messianic Jew? If so, what does this mean, and should it affect my practises in any way? (I reaslise that various passages, such as Acts 15:1-2 and Phil 3:2 make it clear that I should not get circumsised).


Hi Yahweh.. No you are not a Messianic Jew. You are a Hebrew Christian. A Messianic Jew is one born of Jewish decent that accepts Yeshua as the Messiah and lives a Torah Observant life(ie living by kashrut law, observing the feasts, following the all the commands in the Law, etc).

A Hebrew Christian is one that is born of Jewish decent that has accept or adopted Christianity as his own religion. Christianity and Messianic Judiasm are not the same. They have many differences..specifically some differences are that most Christians are not Torah observant, do not celebrate all the feasts, and do not feel bound by the 613 laws that God gave Israel, and some would say have incorporated non-biblical teachings into their religion.

You specifically are a Hebrew Christian because you converted to Christianity. But you are indeed a Jew if your mother is a Jew..you just aren't what is referred to as a "practicing" Jew. And since you aren't circumcised which is commanded by God for Jews you aren't under the exact covenant of your circumcised Jewish brothers.

There is NOTHING wrong with being a Hebrew Christian as long as you realize who you serve and why you serve. I would suggest though if you are really interested in your own heritage (Judiasm) to invest in some books that pertain to your heritage. A good place to start for now might be here for you: www.jewfaq.org/toc.htm


But the short of it is, no you are not a Messianic Jew, you are a Hebrew Christian.

Missy
 
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Talmid HaYarok

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Yeah, though of course your family are the ones who raised you, your people will always be YOUR people.

If you have any more questions about Jews or Messianic Judaism then please ask.

I know that England has some older Messianic congregations that have been in one place for a while. Hopefully you can find something local that can help you out too.
 
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Yahweh Nissi

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Because they are useful shorthand ways of conveying beliefs, status, etc. Of course you should not box people in with labels or over-generalise, but I think most people have sufficient sense to just see them as useful bits of information. That is why I asked the first part of this question, so I would not use labels incorrectly.
But you should not read too much into them, or be dogmatic and start believeing in things just because you fall into certain catorgaries, so thanks for your post, it is important to keep this in mind.
 
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but just because that is something that i consider myself to be, so does not mean that is all that i am. a lot of times i am labeled as the christian. or the jew. or the fake jew. or the fake christian. or the messianic jew. or the freak with purple hair. or that bilingual girl... or any number of things. and i am SO tired of people forgetting that i am a lot of other things.

as for not putting people into a box... i went away a couple of weeks ago and went to a bible study. we talked alot about how we are used to seeing g'd work in familiar ways and that it throws us for a loop when he works in ways that are different from what we expect. like we are trying to see his works through human eyes... we talked a lot about taking him out of the box. this was such a moving conversation and really affected me.... i went out and got a little box and wrote on the inside... "Take g'd out of the box" it is a little reminder for me when things get tough.
 
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Talmid HaYarok

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Hmm, well purple was never my color and I'm not a girl but other than that it fits me quite well too.

For me I'm a mutt, and I hate being pushed to reject any one part of my ancestry. It rather annoys me at times, but at least Judaism is now clear and concise about who is an ethnic Jew. Until the profiling sections of applications either come up with a space for "Mixed-race" or "American" I'll always be checking other or nothing at all.

Anyways, its the nature of people to always try to classify things and "put it in a box" and pretend they have the answer for everything. So for convenience's sake I just try to figure out how to get the most out of whatever box people are putting me in.

For instance when traveling through the middle-east its very convenient to be "Jewish" at times and very convenient to be "only part Jewish" at other times. I'm sure I wouldn't have gotten as deep a perspective of Israel any other way.
 
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Well putting people in a "box" is for a reason.. you are either a Jew or you aren't, you are either Christian or you aren't, your either American or you aren't.. not much to discern there.. I don't see the big deal. Unless of course someone mistakenly call you something you aren't.. then all you have to do is correct them.

For instance, some think I am a Jew and I correct them and say no, I am not a Jew.

Missy
 
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Yahweh Nissi

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Sure, that is anoying, but I think the problem is people being small minded and taking simplistic views of people.  I will always try to avoid doing that, and I definately would never try to put God in a box, that is not what we are doing.
So to avoid that, what is your story?  Similar to mine?  Orthodox Jewish believer, converted to belief in Jesus as Messiah?  I would be interested to know.

And what about you Missy?  I must say that from your posts I had you pictured as an Orthodox Jewish convert to Messianic.  Shows what you get by assuming things :sorry:
 
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4th April 2003 at 10:54 PM Yahweh Nissi said this in Post #14

Sure, that is anoying, but I think the problem is people being small minded and taking simplistic views of people.  I will always try to avoid doing that, and I definately would never try to put God in a box, that is not what we are doing.
So to avoid that, what is your story?  Similar to mine?  Orthodox Jewish believer, converted to belief in Jesus as Messiah?  I would be interested to know.

And what about you Missy?  I must say that from your posts I had you pictured as an Orthodox Jewish convert to Messianic.  Shows what you get by assuming things :sorry:


I am Messianic. Was Protestant but my beliefs mainly leaned toward Orthodox Judiasm for years.. just never had the guts to go there.. grew up one day and decided I have a right to believe what I want.. simple as that.. And yes, most people that meet me think I am an Orthodox Jewish convert.

Missy
 
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Talmid HaYarok

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4th April 2003 at 06:01 PM Yahweh Nissi said this in Post #15

And by the way Talmid, what does your name mean? I only picked up mine from Exodus 17:15 because my NLT gives the Hebrew translations of names, I do not know any Hebrew myself.

Well a Talmid is an apprentice or disciple of a master teacher. For instance in hebrew Yeshua's 12 disciples would have been Talmidim.

Yarok is the color grean.

So it means "The Green Disciple". Which in itself has a couple meanings that all apply. Because I'm an Ecologist by education and sometimes by profession. So I'm an apprentice of ecology, but I'm also the "greenie" ecologist who follows Yeshua.

Its also kinda close to what my college nickname was, but this time its in Hebrew.  :D
 
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28th March 2003 at 10:37 AM Yahweh Nissi said this in Post #1 I was born to an Israeli mother, but was adopted at birth to a nominally christian family and was not circumsised. I later converted to Christianity.... Am I a Messianic Jew?

Greetings, Yahweh Nissi:

You say you were converted to Christianity, but were you converted to Christ? There’s a world of difference. Do you know that you’ve been born-again, washed in His blood, robed in His righteousness, placed into His body by the Holy Spirit, and have the gift of eternal life? (see Titus 3:4-7).

If you are saved, you are a child of God and your human heritage, whether Jewish or Gentile, means nothing to God:

For by one [Holy] Spirit, are we all baptized [immersed supernaturally] into one Body [the Body of all believers since Pentecost], WHETHER WE BE JEWS OR GENTILES, whether we be bond or free; and have been made to drink into one Spirit… Now ye are the Body of Christ, and members in particular (1 Cor. 12:12,27; see also Gal. 3:26-29).

Because of this great fact, you are forbidden by God to be circumcised, since you have received a spiritual circumcision through the new birth (Jn.1:12-13; 3:1-7). You are commanded to turn away from Moses completely, and rest in Christ:

* Behold I Paul say unto you [by the authority of Christ], THAT IF YE BE CIRCUMCISED, CHRIST SHALL PROFIT YOU NOTHING. For I testify AGAIN to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the WHOLE LAW. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the Law; ye are fallen from grace.* (Gal. 5:2-4). This *justification* is seeking to please God by returning to Moses.

***Edited this portion of the post for violation of the following rule:

[notroll][/notroll]

Please read the Messianic Forum Rules before you continue to post in here.
 
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Yahweh Nissi

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Ezra,

Quote&nbsp;"You say you were converted to Christianity, but were you converted to <B>Christ</B>? There’s a world of difference. Do you know that you’ve been born-again, washed in His blood, robed in His righteousness, placed into His body by the Holy Spirit, and have the gift of eternal life? (see Titus 3:4-7). "

Good point!&nbsp; Yes, I am converted to Christ.

Quote "If you are saved, you are a child of God and your human heritage, whether Jewish or Gentile, means nothing to God:

<B>For by one [Holy] Spirit, are we all baptized [immersed supernaturally] into one Body [the Body of all believers since Pentecost], WHETHER WE BE JEWS OR GENTILES, whether we be bond or free; and have been made to drink into one Spirit… Now ye are the Body of Christ, and members in particular</B> (1 Cor. 12:12,27; see also Gal. 3:26-29).

Because of this great fact, you are forbidden by God to be circumcised, since you have received a spiritual circumcision through the new birth (Jn.1:12-13; 3:1-7). You are commanded to turn away from Moses completely, and rest in Christ:

<B>* Behold I Paul say unto you [by the authority of Christ], THAT IF YE BE CIRCUMCISED, CHRIST SHALL PROFIT YOU NOTHING. For I testify AGAIN to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the WHOLE LAW. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the Law; ye are fallen from grace.</B>* (Gal. 5:2-4). This *justification* is seeking to please God by returning to Moses. "

Again, thanks for pointing this out.&nbsp; I was aware of all&nbsp;these points, but from my posts&nbsp;on this tread&nbsp;this was not clear.&nbsp; It is important to get these straight.&nbsp; I would never try to suggest that 'Jewishness' made me better, nor would I try to justify myself by works.

I started this thread first to find check my terminology, it is important to get this right so as not to confuse or accidentally give false messages.&nbsp; Also, I noticed that Rom 3, whilst making it clear that justification by law-keeping is impossible, does suggest some differences, which might require different actions.&nbsp; Just because we are not bound by the law and cannot justify ourselves by keeping it does not necessarily mean that we should not try to keep it because it is the right thing to do.&nbsp; The OT does contain phrases like "this is a lasting ordinance among the Israelites for the generations to come".&nbsp; And Jesus said "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come to fulfil them." Matt 5:17.&nbsp; I just wanted to investigate if there were things that I aught to be doing, because it is the right thing to do, due to my ancestry.&nbsp; Or, if Messianics thought that Christians in general aught to try to stick to the law more closely (a question I specifically asked in the FAQ thread).

Please feel free to PM me the deleated bit if you feel it appropriate, I am pratically impossible to offend ;)

Thanks for your concern and helpful thoughts,

with love in Christ,

Yahweh Nissi.



&nbsp;
 
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