SDA Basic Belief 27: God Will Give the Earth to Satan’s Angels

LoveGodsWord said:

Your leaving out the scripture context. The context in 2 Corinthians 5:1-8 is talking about life, death and judgement.

2 CORINTHIANS 5:1-8

[1], For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
[2], For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
[3], If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
[4], For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
[5], Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
[6], Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
[7], For we walk by faith, not by sight:
[8], We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
[9], Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
[10], For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
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Context here is to life in the body, death and being with the Lord (breath of life) until the resurrection of the dead *1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.

Hope this is helpful

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Note, you still didn't explain "away from the body, and at home with the Lord".

Explain it, and by all means relate it to the context.

tall73 said:

Note, you still didn't explain "away from the body, and at home with the Lord".

Explain it, and by all means relate it to the context.

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Sorry that is not true. As posted earlier, 2 Corinthians 5:8 says no where that when Paul dies he will be going to meet the Lord as soon as he dies. Your reading that into the scripture. Paul says that we will be with the Lord at the second coming after the resurrection of the dead in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17. While Ecclesiastes 9:5 says the dead before the resurrection do not know anything before the resurrection of the dead.

LoveGodsWord said:

Sorry that is not true. As posted earlier, 2 Corinthians 5:8 says no where that when Paul dies he will be going to meet the Lord as soon as he dies.

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You need not address what you think I believe. I asked you to explain "away from the body, and at home with the Lord".

That is in the text. Now explain it. And by all means, relate it to the context.

2Co 5:8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

LoveGodsWord said:

Sorry I disagree with you unless you believe God uses witches instead of prophets. I do not believe this.

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I never said God spoke through witches, you are choosing to be evasive. you are not addressing that he thought he could contact Samuel, through a witch or not. Why did he believe that? Where did he get the idea that was even possible? If he were and SDA would not have thought that. Maybe just maybe, He believed that the soul was in a location where the demons were. so it might be possible to contact him? In violation to the commands of God, but never the less possible.

tall73 said:

You need not address what you think I believe. I asked you to explain "away from the body, and at home with the Lord". That is in the text. Now explain it. And by all means, relate it to the context. 2Co 5:8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

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What you believe has already been addressed from the scriptures showing that the dead do not know anything until after the resurrection of the dead at the second coming *1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; Ecclesiastes 9:5

Adventist Heretic said:

I never said God spoke through witches, you are choosing to be evasive.

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That is the context of the scriptures you provided which was Saul seeking a witch to know Gods' will after God rejected him and would not speak to him through the prophets. So no I was not being evasive only showing context to the scriptures you provided and why they do not support your view.

LoveGodsWord said:

What you believe has already been addressed from the scriptures showing that the dead do not know anything until the resurrection of the dead at the second coming *1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; Ecclesiastes 9:5

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I said you need not concern yourself at all with what you think I believe.

I asked you to explain "away from the body, and at home with the Lord".

That is in the text. Now explain it. And by all means, relate it to the context.

2Co 5:8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

tall73 said:

I said you need not concern yourself at all with what you think I believe.

I asked you to explain "away from the body, and at home with the Lord".

That is in the text. Now explain it. And by all means, relate it to the context.

2Co 5:8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

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I do not know how many times we have done this now. What is it you think I am saying to you? Do you think the dead know anything when they die? When are the dead resurrected according to Paul?

1 Thessalonians 5:23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Gen 2:7
And the LORD God formed man (body) of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life(spirit) ; and man became a living soul.

Matt 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

what doese 1Thes 5:23 mean, What does matt 10:28

LoveGodsWord said:

I do not know how many times we have done this now. What is it you think I am saying to you? Do you think the dead know anything when they die? When are the dead resurrected according to Paul?

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there was a change at the cross so yes the dead who believe in Christ now can go to heaven, the unbeleaving and the wicked are not in heaven and do not know anything.

Adventist Heretic said:

1 Thessalonians 5:23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Gen 2:7
And the LORD God formed man (body) of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life(spirit) ; and man became a living soul.

Matt 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

what doese 1Thes 5:23 mean, What does matt 10:28

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I think we already had this discussion some time ago...

SPIRIT

Hebrew....

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - H7307
רוּחַ (rûwach | roo'-akh) Derivation: from רוּחַ; Strong's: wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions) KJV: air, anger, blast, breath, [idiom] cool, courage, mind, [idiom] quarter, [idiom] side, spirit(-ual), tempest, [idiom] vain, (whirl-) wind(-y).

Greek....

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G4151
πνεῦμα (pneûma | pnyoo'-mah) Derivation: from G4154; Strong's: a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit

As shown in the scriptures posted earlier "the breath of life" returns to God who gave it once we die the first death. The body returns to dust and the Spirit (breath of life) returns to God (see Ecclesiastes 12:7; Genesis 3:19 and Genesis 2:7).

SOUL

Hebrew..

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - H5315
נֶפֶשׁ (nephesh | neh'-fesh) Derivation: from נָפַשׁ; Strong's: properly, a breathing creature, i.e. animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental) KJV: any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, [idiom] dead(-ly), desire, [idiom] (dis-) contented, [idiom] fish, ghost, [phrase] greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, [idiom] jeopardy of) life ([idiom] in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, [phrase] slay, soul, [phrase] tablet, they, thing, ([idiom] she) will, [idiom] would have it.

Greek...

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G5590
ψυχή (psychḗ | psoo-khay') Derivation: from G5594; Strong's: breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151

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CONCLUSION:

Therefore the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:23 "body, soul and spirit) is simply that God will sanctify you to the utmost of all your being (body, breath/soul and mind/spirit) and for Matthew 10:28, do not be afraid of those who can kill the body but cannot take away your life as that comes from God (eternal life). Be afraid therefore of those who can take away your body and your life (eternal life) that comes from God (context is to "believers" - John 3:36).

Take Care.

LoveGodsWord said:

I do not know how many times we have done this now.

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How many times I asked you what "away from the body and at home with the Lord" means and you won't say? Quite a few.

2Co 5:8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

You could just explain it. By all means, include the context in your explanation.

Or if you just don't want to explain it, then say that.

What is it you think I am saying to you?

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It is what you are not saying to me--what "away from the body and at home with the Lord" means.

2Co 5:8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Do you think the dead know anything when they die?

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I said a number of times that I think the dead are sleeping. So I don't know as they will know anything.

When are the dead resurrected according to Paul?

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At the last trumpet.

Now, what does "away from the body and at home with the Lord" mean in this text?

2Co 5:8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

If you don't want to explain it, just say that.

Adventist Heretic said:

there was a change at the cross so yes the dead who believe in Christ now can go to heaven, the unbeleaving and the wicked are not in heaven and do not know anything.

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There was no change at the cross that deletes the old testament scriptures. The change at the cross is that we are no longer under the old covenant shadow laws that pointed to Jesus as Gods' sacrifice for the sins of the world once and for all. *John 1:29; Hebrews 10:10 and are now under the new covenant based on better promises.

tall73 said:

How many times I asked you what "away from the body and at home with the Lord" means and you won't say? Quite a few. 2Co 5:8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. You could just explain it. By all means, include the context in your explanation.
It is what you are not saying to me--what "away from the body and at home with the Lord" means2Co 5:8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. I said a number of times that I think the dead are sleeping. So I don't know as they will know anything. At the last trumpet. Now, what does "away from the body and at home with the Lord" mean in this text? 2Co 5:8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

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What is it you think I am saying to you in answering 2 Corinthians 5:8? If you believe that the dead do not know anything and that the dead in Christ are not brought back to life until the second coming and the resurrection of the dead, how can Paul go and meet the Lord as soon as he dies when Paul also says that the resurrection of the dead does not take place until the last days at the second coming?

LoveGodsWord said:

What is it you think I am saying to you in answering 2 Corinthians 5:8? If you believe that the dead do not know anything and that the dead in Christ are not brought back to life until the second coming and the resurrection of the dead, how can Paul go and meet the Lord as soon as he dies when Paul also says that the resurrection of the dead does not take place until the last days at the second coming? - Think it through.

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Thank you for your concern, I am thinking it all through.

But you still haven't explained what "away from the body and at home with the Lord" means in this text.

2Co 5:8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

If you don't want to explain it, just say that.

LoveGodsWord said:

What is it you think I am saying to you in answering 2 Corinthians 5:8?

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The question is really simple. What does "away from the body and at home with the Lord" mean in this text?

2Co 5:8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

If you don't want to explain it, just say that.

But if you keep talking about what I believe, what other texts say, etc. you are not answering the question about what does "away from the body and at home with the Lord" mean in this text.

So either answer it, or if you don't want to, then say that. But saying you answered it when you never addressed what "away from the body and at home with the Lord" means, doesn't work. If you didn't explain what it means, you didn't answer it.

tall73 said:

Thank you for your concern, I am thinking it all through. But you still haven't explained what "away from the body and at home with the Lord" means in this text. 2Co 5:8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
If you don't want to explain it, just say that.

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Well you did not answer my question from the last post asking you what is it you think I am saying about 2 Corinthians 5:8 while disregarding my earlier posts and scripture shared with you on 2 Corinthians 5:1-8 showing that the context is to living, death and judgement. Paul not being in the body means to die and his life (breath of life) being returned to God who gave it after His death awaiting the resurrection of the new body with the breath of life at the second coming and the resurrection of the dead as shown by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-55.

tall73 said:

The question is really simple. What does "away from the body and at home with the Lord" mean in this text? 2Co 5:8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. If you don't want to explain it, just say that. But if you keep talking about what I believe, what other texts say, etc. you are not answering the question about what does "away from the body and at home with the Lord" mean in this text. So either answer it, or if you don't want to, then say that. But saying you answered it when you never addressed what "away from the body and at home with the Lord" means, doesn't work. If you didn't explain what it means, you didn't answer it.

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This is non-responsive to the question being asked of you in the post you are quoting from while simply repeating what you already said earlier that has already been addressed through the scriptures.

LoveGodsWord said:

Paul not being in the body means to die and his life (breath of life) being returned to God who gave it

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So something essential about Paul went back to God, absent from the body, and at home with the Lord? Paul was with the Lord?

tall73 said:

So something essential about Paul went back to God, absent from the body, and at home with the Lord?

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Yes the breath of life absent from the body means death and it is the "breath of life" that returns to God awaiting resurrection and a new body at the resurrection of the dead at the second coming. *1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-55. This has been posted many times now.