I just lied to someone.

LoveGodsWord

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I simply disagree. The Hebrew midwives lied to Pharaoh and the Bible says that God dealt well with them. While not commending them, he also did not condemn them, and the same goes for Rahab.
Well we are all entitled to our opinions but our opinions do not mean much in God's eyes. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them *see Romans 3:4 and Acts of the Apostles 5:29. We should not try and make excuses for sin. If you have scripture showing that it is now alright to tell lies and sin your welcome to show it. If you haven't I think we are best to believe what God's Word says when God tells us we should not lie in the 9th commandment and breaking it is sin *Exodus 20:16; 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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It's simple. When the unjust aggressors asked if the spies were present, silence would tip them off that something is afoot. It would've resulted in their deaths. Lying is generally wrong, but when used to protect someone from harm, I believe God cares more about their well-being than the words you use. I realize this is not a new argument, and I respect that you have an opinion, but many saints of the past would not agree with you. In my opinion, your responses should involve more critical thinking, even if you still hold to your interpretation of this moral dilemma.
Not really. Your just trying to make excuses for sin. There is no scripture in the bible that condones sin for those who have committed sin. All you have provided is your opinion unsupported by any scripture that condones sin against the scriptures that condemns sin. I prefer what the scriptures teach and they do not teach what you are teaching. The moral dilemma therefore is your side not mine if God tells us not to sin and your trying to argue it is now alright to sin.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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God condoned a message from a lying spirit in 1 Kings 22. Did God intentionally deceive someone that was his enemy?
Not really. Saul was sent a lying Spirit (Satan) because he refused to believe and follow Gods' Word. Gods' Spirit departed him and left him with Satan. This is the same with us. If we refuse to believe and follow God's Word God will leave us to strong delusions to believe lies *2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 especially if we are trying to promote lies over the Words of God. Please forgive me but we will agree to disagree because according to the scriptures there is no excuse for sin once we have been given a knowledge of the truth of Gods' Word *Hebrews 10:26-31.

Take Care.
 
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Freth

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Did God take a hard stance against lying when he condoned the lying spirit to deliver a message in 1 Kings 22?

1. It is a vision being described.
2. The lying spirit is clearly Satan, as there is only one father of lies.

This has no bearing on God's commandments, which are to be obeyed.
 
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Leaf473

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The Bible says thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. There are several specifics in this verse worth unpacking.
I agree. The commandment to not bear false witness would include not telling a half truth with intent to deceive. Yet there are examples of that happening in the scriptures, with God's apparent approval.

So there are times when the commandment to not bear false witness can be lawfully set aside imo.
 
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Greg Cheney

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Not really. Your just trying to make excuses for sin. There is no scripture in the bible that condones sin for those who have committed sin. All you have provided is your opinion unsupported by any scripture that condones sin against the scriptures that condemns sin. I prefer what the scriptures teach and they do not teach what you are teaching. The moral dilemma therefore is your side not mine if God tells us not to sin and your trying to argue it is now alright to sin.

Saying "not really" does not change the fact that there are indeed specific examples of deceit being used in the scriptures and people were not condemned for it, and were in fact blessed. Though not ideal, protecting life is more important than strict adherence to speaking facts. Your characterization of this as me "making an excuse for sin" is a false accusation - it is me claiming that in some situations there is a hierarchy of values and one must decide what is more valuable.
 
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Greg Cheney

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Not really. Saul was sent a lying Spirit (Satan) because he refused to believe and follow Gods' Word. Gods' Spirit departed him and left him with Satan. This is the same with us. It was refuse to believe and follow God's Word God will leave us to strong delusions to believe lies especially if we are trying to promote lies over the Words of God. Please forgive me but we will agree to disagree because according to the scriptures there is no excuse for sin once we have been given a knowledge of the truth of Gods' Word *Hebrews 10:26-31.

Take Care.

"Leaving" someone to believe a lie and "sending" a lying spirit are not the same. It is not about excusing sin, it is about protecting people from harm. You seem to be someone that values words that are spoken (not that this is wrong) above protecting people from harm.
 
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Greg Cheney

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Well we are all entitled to our opinions but our opinions do not mean much in God's eyes. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them *see Romans 3:4 and Acts of the Apostles 5:29. We should not try and make excuses for sin. If you have scripture showing that it is now alright to tell lies and sin your welcome to show it. If you haven't I think we are best to believe what God's Word says when God tells us we should not lie in the 9th commandment and breaking it is sin *Exodus 20:16; 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7.

I just shared a biblical example and you clearly ignored it. I agree, our opinions do not mean much in God's eyes.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I just shared a biblical example and you clearly ignored it. I agree, our opinions do not mean much in God's eyes.
Not really dear friend you provided some scripture which was a record of someone lying. No where in any of those scriptures does it say anywhere that we are now allowed to lie and commit sin.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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"Leaving" someone to believe a lie and "sending" a lying spirit are not the same. It is not about excusing sin, it is about protecting people from harm. You seem to be someone that values words that are spoken (not that this is wrong) above protecting people from harm.
No they are indeed the same thing. God only sent Saul a lying Spirit because he refused to believe and follow Gods' Word in order to justify His sins of not obeying Gods Word.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Saying "not really" does not change the fact that there are indeed specific examples of deceit being used in the scriptures and people were not condemned for it, and were in fact blessed. Though not ideal, protecting life is more important than strict adherence to speaking facts. Your characterization of this as me "making an excuse for sin" is a false accusation - it is me claiming that in some situations there is a hierarchy of values and one must decide what is more valuable.
"Not really" was used to simply say there are no examples in scripture that tell us anywhere that it is now alright to break anyone of God's 10 commandments of which lying is the 9th *Exodus 20:16. A record of someone lying in scripture is not a endorsement that it is now alright to lie. It is simply a record of what someone did.

None of those examples you provided say anywhere that it is now alright to practice lying and to sin and break God's commandments. That is you reading into the scriptures what is not written. Sin is the transgression of God's law *1 John 3:4. According to the scriptures those who knowingly practice unrepentant sin without seeking Gods forgiveness do not enter into Gods kingdom *Hebrews 10:26-31. Liars and those who knowingly break Gods' commandments and do not believe Gods' Word do not enter into God's kingdom according to the scriptures...
  • Revelation 21:7-8 [7], He that overcomes shall inherit all things;1 and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. [8], But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
  • Revelation 14:12 [12], Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
  • Revelation 12:17 [17], And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
  • 1 John 3:4 4, Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
  • Hebrews 10:26-27 [26], For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
We should not seek to justify our sins or to condone them under any circumstances according to the scriptures but to confess them to God and seek His forgiveness (see Proverbs 28:9; Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 2:1; 1 John 1:9).

Take Care.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I just shared a biblical example and you clearly ignored it. I agree, our opinions do not mean much in God's eyes.
I respectfully disagree. You have not provided a single scripture that says it is now alright to lie and commit sin and break Gods' 10 commandments *Exodus 20:16 which is the transgression of Gods' law *1 John 3:4. You provided a record of someone committing the sin of lying. A record of someone committing sin is not a scripture that says it is now alright to lie and commit sin. God only holds us accountable for sin when we know something is sin *see James 4:7, Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 compare to Hebrews 10:26-27. In response you were provided scripture showing those who practice known unrepentant sin without confession of sin and repentance of sin will not enter into God's kingdom *Hebrews 10:26-27; Revelation 21:7-8. We should not seek to justify sin according to the scriptures as this is what King Saul did and was the reason why God's Spirit departed him and left Him to believe his lies over the Words of God.

Take Care.
 
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Greg Cheney

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I respectfully disagree. You have not provided a single scripture that says it is now alright to lie and commit sin and break Gods' 10 commandments *Exodus 20:16 which is the transgression of Gods' law *1 John 3:4. You provided a record of someone committing the sin of lying. A record of someone committing sin is not a scripture that says it is now alright to lie and commit sin. God only holds us accountable for sin when we know something is sin *see James 4:7, Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 compare to Hebrews 10:26-27. In response you were provided scripture showing those who practice known unrepentant sin without confession of sin and repentance of sin will not enter into God's kingdom *Hebrews 10:26-27; Revelation 21:7-8. We should not seek to justify sin according to the scriptures as this is what King Saul did and was the reason why God's Spirit departed him and left Him to believe his lies over the Words of God.

Take Care.

I provided a scriptural example of some people telling a falsehood to protect someone else from harm and God dealt well with them. You have no explanation for that.
 
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Greg Cheney

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"Not really" was used to simply say there are no examples in scripture that tell us anywhere that it is now alright to break anyone of God's 10 commandments of which lying is the 9th *Exodus 20:16. A record of someone lying in scripture is not a endorsement that it is now alright to lie. It is simply a record of what someone did.

None of those examples you provided say anywhere that it is now alright to practice lying and to sin and break God's commandments. That is you reading into the scriptures what is not written. Sin is the transgression of God's law *1 John 3:4. According to the scriptures those who knowingly practice unrepentant sin without seeking Gods forgiveness do not enter into Gods kingdom *Hebrews 10:26-31. Liars and those who knowingly break Gods' commandments and do not believe Gods' Word do not enter into God's kingdom according to the scriptures...
  • Revelation 21:7-8 [7], He that overcomes shall inherit all things;1 and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. [8], But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
  • Revelation 14:12 [12], Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
  • Revelation 12:17 [17], And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
  • 1 John 3:4 4, Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
  • Hebrews 10:26-27 [26], For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
We should not seek to justify our sins or to condone them under any circumstances according to the scriptures but to confess them to God and seek His forgiveness (see Proverbs 28:9; Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 2:1; 1 John 1:9).

Take Care.

It is not a justification for sin as if a person is trying to harm someone or commit fraud; it is in fact just the opposite. God dealt well with them. You have no explanation for that.
 
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Greg Cheney

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No they are indeed the same thing. God only sent Saul a lying Spirit because he refused to believe and follow Gods' Word in order to justify His sins of not obeying Gods Word.

No, they are not the same. You claim they are the same just because you want them to mean the same thing. They do not fit into your thinking, so you twist the meaning of words. But nice try.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I provided a scriptural example of some people telling a falsehood to protect someone else from harm and God dealt well with them. You have no explanation for that.
Not really Greg. You provided a record of someone committing the sin of lying. A record of someone committing sin is not a scripture that says it is now alright to lie and commit sin. God only holds us accountable for sin when we know something is sin *see James 4:7, Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 compare to Hebrews 10:26-27. In response you were provided scripture showing those who practice known unrepentant sin without confession of sin and repentance of sin will not enter into God's kingdom *Hebrews 10:26-27; Revelation 21:7-8. We should not seek to justify sin according to the scriptures as this is what King Saul did and was the reason why God's Spirit departed him and left Him to believe his lies over the Words of God.

Take Care.
 
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Greg Cheney

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Not really dear friend you provided some scripture which was a record of someone lying. No where in any of those scriptures does it say anywhere that we are now allowed to lie and commit sin.

I did not claim that we are now allowed to lie indiscriminately, but there are instances where lying is the lesser evil.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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It is not a justification for sin as if a person is trying to harm someone or commit fraud; it is in fact just the opposite. God dealt well with them. You have no explanation for that.
There is no excuse for sin and we should not seek to try and justify it. God (not me) says we should not lie *Exodus 20:16 and no liars will be inheriting God's Kingdom according to the scriptures *Revelation 21:7-8.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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No, they are not the same. You claim they are the same just because you want them to mean the same thing. They do not fit into your thinking, so you twist the meaning of words. But nice try.
Your opinion is noted. I prefer what the scriptures teach. We will agree to disagree.
 
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Greg Cheney

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Not really Greg. You provided a record of someone committing the sin of lying. A record of someone committing sin is not a scripture that says it is now alright to lie and commit sin. God only holds us accountable for sin when we know something is sin *see James 4:7, Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 compare to Hebrews 10:26-27. In response you were provided scripture showing those who practice known unrepentant sin without confession of sin and repentance of sin will not enter into God's kingdom *Hebrews 10:26-27; Revelation 21:7-8. We should not seek to justify sin according to the scriptures as this is what King Saul did and was the reason why God's Spirit departed him and left Him to believe his lies over the Words of God.

Take Care.

I did provide a record of such. God dealt well with them because of their motivation for doing so.
 
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