Does God predestine sin?

Cockcrow

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Since God is sovereign and everything created is for a purpose (John 1:3, Proverbs 16:4, Colossians 1:16, Romans 9:18) according to his will and for his pleasure (Psalms 115:3, Job 42:2, Proverbs 16:9, Matthew 26:39) and God knows all things and everything that will ever happen. (Isaiah 46:9-10)

God is the author (Isaiah 45:7) does he use sin of the righteous to bring us closer to him? (Romans 8:28) we know that "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37 would this mean that God predetermines/predestines sin as well according to his will? (Genesis 50:20)
 
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TedT

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Since God is sovereign and everything created is for a purpose (John 1:3, Proverbs 16:4, Colossians 1:16, Romans 9:18) according to his will and for his pleasure (Psalms 115:3, Job 42:2, Proverbs 16:9, Matthew 26:39) and God knows all things and everything that will ever happen. (Isaiah 46:9-10)

God is the author (Isaiah 45:7) does he use sin of the righteous to bring us closer to him? (Romans 8:28) we know that "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37 would this mean that God predetermines/predestines sin as well according to his will?

Your conclusions are wrong because your premises are based upon faulty interpretations of scripture...
 
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disciple Clint

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Since God is sovereign and everything created is for a purpose (John 1:3, Proverbs 16:4, Colossians 1:16, Romans 9:18) according to his will and for his pleasure (Psalms 115:3, Job 42:2, Proverbs 16:9, Matthew 26:39) and God knows all things and everything that will ever happen. (Isaiah 46:9-10)

God is the author (Isaiah 45:7) does he use sin of the righteous to bring us closer to him? (Romans 8:28) we know that "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37 would this mean that God predetermines/predestines sin as well according to his will? (Genesis 50:20)
NO
 
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disciple Clint

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so God isn't sovereign?
sovereign does not mean that God is required to control every single thing that happens, God can permit something to happen that is not part of His affirmative will. Study the permissive and prescriptive will of God.
 
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Strong in Him

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Since God is sovereign and everything created is for a purpose (John 1:3, Proverbs 16:4, Colossians 1:16, Romans 9:18) according to his will and for his pleasure (Psalms 115:3, Job 42:2, Proverbs 16:9, Matthew 26:39) and God knows all things and everything that will ever happen. (Isaiah 46:9-10)

God is the author (Isaiah 45:7) does he use sin of the righteous to bring us closer to him? (Romans 8:28) we know that "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37 would this mean that God predetermines/predestines sin as well according to his will? (Genesis 50:20)

No.
 
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Jonaitis

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Since God is sovereign and everything created is for a purpose (John 1:3, Proverbs 16:4, Colossians 1:16, Romans 9:18) according to his will and for his pleasure (Psalms 115:3, Job 42:2, Proverbs 16:9, Matthew 26:39) and God knows all things and everything that will ever happen. (Isaiah 46:9-10)

God is the author (Isaiah 45:7) does he use sin of the righteous to bring us closer to him? (Romans 8:28) we know that "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37 would this mean that God predetermines/predestines sin as well according to his will? (Genesis 50:20)
Yes, God did preordain evil for good. It is a hard pill for many Christian today to swallow, but there are plenty of examples throughout the Scriptures. Just think about Christ. He suffered at the hands of sinful men, but God intended to use their harm for His redemptive purpose. He predestined everything that would happen to Jesus long before His incarnation! The beauty in this truth is that, not even evil can stop God from doing good, for everything is under His divine providence. God allowed sin to exist to bring good out of it, showing that not even sin can have a reason outside of God's divine purpose. This gives us hope, because we can trust Him to walk with us in the valley of the shadow of death, for His rod and staff is with us (Psalm 23).
 
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Jonaitis

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Your conclusions are wrong because your premises are based upon faulty interpretations of scripture...
What is faulty with this position? Do you believe sin is greater than God's power?
 
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Jonaitis

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No. Humans have free will and have a choice whether or not to sin.
While we have the will to act, not even this is outside of His providence. Think about Joseph. His brothers betrayed him, yet God used their evil to bring about good (Genesis 50:20). When Israel rebelled against the Lord throughout their generations, God raised up the Assyrians and Babylonians to chastise them for their error. In the eyes of Nebuchadnezzar, he intended to conquer and destroy, but yet God revealed that even he was under his divine providence. Somehow, God is sovereign over all the affairs of men without removing their responsibility and choice. It is one of those many paradoxes that makes us stand in awe of our awesome God.
 
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Jonaitis

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sovereign does not mean that God is required to control every single thing that happens, God can permit something to happen that is not part of His affirmative will. Study the permissive and prescriptive will of God.
If God is not in control of all things, God is not God. If God is not sovereign in all things, then we must conclude that some things are new to His knowledge.

"Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases." - Psalm 115:3

"The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble." - Proverbs 16:4
 
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Jonaitis

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Genesis 2+3.
God gave Adam a command; he did not force him to obey it.
God does not have to "force" anything to be sovereign over everything. God can effectually use our choices, by His predetermined plan, to bring about His intended purpose. God does not bow to the creature.
 
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Strong in Him

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God does not have to "force" anything to be sovereign over everything.

God is Sovereign over everything; he made all things, knows everything about us and what we are going to do and say.
Knowing that something is going to happen is not the same as planning and desiring that it should happen.

God can effectually use our choices, by His predetermined plan, to bring about His intended purpose.

So are you saying that God made this world, and human beings in his image, and always planned that they would sin and mess it up?
Why?

God does not bow to the creature.

No - he chooses to let us choose.
He did not make Adam sin, nor did he prevent him from doing so. He gave Adam a command. When Adam did not keep it, he was punished.
 
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Strong in Him

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If God is not in control of all things, God is not God.

He is in control because he knows all things and can use all things for good, Romans 8:28.
The devil does not have greater power than God.

He does not control us by micro managing our movements and making us do what he wants.
Otherwise, as I said, we would be saying that God wanted mankind to sin. And why would he tell Adam NOT to do something and then punish him for it, if it was what he wanted in the first place?
 
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Jonaitis

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God is Sovereign over everything; he made all things, knows everything about us and what we are going to do and say. Knowing that something is going to happen is not the same as planning and desiring that it should happen.

Let Scripture be our judge:

"I know, O Lord, that the way of man is not in himself, that it is not in man who walks to direct his steps." - Jeremiah 10:23

"Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand." -Proverbs 19:21

"The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps."- Proverbs 16:9

"I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’ calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of my counsel from a far country. I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass; I have purposed, and I will do it." - Isaiah 46:9-11

"So then God has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills." - Romans 9:18

"Who has spoken and it came to pass, unless the Lord has commanded it? Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and bad come?" - Lamentations 3:37-38

"The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord." - Proverbs 16:33

"The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble." - Proverbs 16:4

"He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding." - Daniel 2:21

"A man's steps are from the Lord; how then can man understand his way?" - Proverbs 20:24
So are you saying that God made this world, and human beings in his image, and always planned that they would sin and mess it up? Why?
To unfold His plan of redemption that is in Christ. Do you think that Jesus was a backup plan in case things went off kilter? This would present God as fallible. Furthermore, this suggests that what God creates is not perfect, but has some loose ends that can disrupt what He designs. This presents God as an incomplete creator, who can see the future, yet must fix mistakes along the way after calling it 'good.'
No - he chooses to let us choose. He did not make Adam sin, nor did he prevent him from doing so. He gave Adam a command. When Adam did not keep it, he was punished.
And Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” - John 6:65
 
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Jonaitis

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He is in control because he knows all things and can use all things for good, Romans 8:28.
The devil does not have greater power than God.

He does not control us by micro managing our movements and making us do what he wants.
Otherwise, as I said, we would be saying that God wanted mankind to sin. And why would he tell Adam NOT to do something and then punish him for it, if it was what he wanted in the first place?
Do you think God is only the master designer of the bigger picture, and not all the details? Do you consider Him an author of creation, yet always proofreading His own work? Do we think of God so low?!
 
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Jonaitis

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If an action affects another action, then all actions eventually return to the first action and actor. Think about that for a moment. Everything that has happened, is happening and will happen flows from the chain of events that God began. Cause and effect show that everything has been predetermined by former actions, follow that backward to the very source and you have God! He began the chain, and knew it.
 
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fhansen

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Since God is sovereign and everything created is for a purpose (John 1:3, Proverbs 16:4, Colossians 1:16, Romans 9:18) according to his will and for his pleasure (Psalms 115:3, Job 42:2, Proverbs 16:9, Matthew 26:39) and God knows all things and everything that will ever happen. (Isaiah 46:9-10)

God is the author (Isaiah 45:7) does he use sin of the righteous to bring us closer to him? (Romans 8:28) we know that "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37 would this mean that God predetermines/predestines sin as well according to his will? (Genesis 50:20)
He allows sin/evil for a time, for His purposes, but does not cause or author sin. If so, He’d be worse than Satan as every most atrocious act that’s ever been committed would be directly designed and willed by Him.
 
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