How do English readers understand the verb ‘command’ in Jesus sayings?

KerimF said:

Hello everyone,

On my Arabic Gospel, the verb ‘command’ in Jesus sayings is translated to a word whose meaning is close to the verb ‘advise’; it doesn’t sound, in any way, the verb ‘order’ (as in the army).

In other words, on the Arabic Gospel, Jesus (also my Father in Heaven since they are unified since before Creation by the Divine Spirit of Love, the Holy Spirit) acts always like a loving knowledgeable father who advises his beloved sons so that they can be aware, in advance, of whatever they may face in their life and helps them know how to overcome them.

“Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”


By the way, I am afraid that when trust and love are imposed on someone to accept living them towards someone else they can be about anything but True Trust and Love.

Kerim

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Hi, just off the top of my head I do not remember Jesus using the word "command" He gives examples of right behavior, tells us what to do but, He does say I command you to .... So can you provide an example of the verse you are talking about?

KerimF said:

Sorry for not being clearer.
I meant; whenever Jesus says "I command you to...", does an English reader see in Him more a Divine Commander or a divine all-knowledge advising father/teacher/shepherd.

For instance, the same question could be applied on the word 'commandment'; mainly Jesus First and Second ones (about trusting God's Will fully... and loving/caring of whoever one may meet as if he is himself).

May I add? God's commandments that were addressed to the ancient Jews (when humans were primitive; kids of humanity) meant to be orders not advice(s). In fact (in real life), a loving father raises his kids by rules not by advice in order to protect them till they will be ready to live as independent free adults. And when they become adults, their same father advises them instead while they are free to trust him or not.

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Maybe someone on the forum who knows Biblical Greek can shed some light on the original Greek word translated "command" and to consult a Greek lexicon to establish what it actually means. Otherwise we might be the blind leading the blind.

KerimF said:

Sorry for not being clearer.
I meant; whenever Jesus says "I command you to...", does an English reader see in Him more a Divine Commander or a divine all-knowledge advising father/teacher/shepherd.

For instance, the same question could be applied on the word 'commandment'; mainly Jesus First and Second ones (about trusting God's Will fully... and loving/caring of whoever one may meet as if he is himself).

May I add? God's commandments that were addressed to the ancient Jews (when humans were primitive; kids of humanity) meant to be orders not advice(s). In fact (in real life), a loving father raises his kids by rules not by advice in order to protect them till they will be ready to live as independent free adults. And when they become adults, their same father advises them instead while they are free to trust him or not.

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I need you to quote the scripture you are talking about, where is Jesus using the term "I command"

Watchman1 said:

Maybe someone on the forum who knows Biblical Greek can shed some light on the original Greek word translated "command" and to consult a Greek lexicon to establish what it actually means. Otherwise we might be the blind leading the blind.

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While that is a good idea he seems to be talking about the differences in translations between English and Arabic.

disciple Clint said:

While that is a good idea he seems to be talking about the differences in translations between English and Arabic.

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But both translations come from the original Koine Greek. Going back to the Greek would make things a lot clearer and save successive posts going in circles around the mountain.

Hi Kerim. For the Arabic word, do you mean وصية (wasiya)? I know it can mean other things too, but I thought it also meant command or commandment? Because I know that in John 10:18, where in English it is translated in the NKJV "this command I have received from my Father", it says in the Arabic of the SVD هَذِهِ الْوَصِيَّةُ قَبِلْتُهَا مِنْ أَبِي

Maybe you use a different Arabic Bible than the SVD, though. That's just the one we use in the Coptic Orthodox Church in the United States, where I live.

In Coptic, the word is ⲉⲛⲧⲟⲗⲏ (entoli), which as far as I can tell from looking at our hymns can mean not just command, but also decree, like when we sing of the St. Mary the Theotokos "Berekiah spoke of you, concerning the decrees of salvation" (in Coptic, "Barakias afsaji ethviti, ente nenentoli emepsoti"). Is it the same in Arabic, or is there another, more precise word to use for 'decree'? I'm just curious, since I don't get to use Arabic outside of church very often, so I'm slow to pick up vocabulary and often have trouble with synonyms or near-synonyms.

KerimF said:

I command
{John 15:14}
{John 15:17}

my commandment(s)
{John 14:15}
{John 14:21}
{John 15:10}
{John 15:12}

commanded
{Matthew 10:5}
{Matthew 11:1}
{Matthew 14:19}
...

Sorry, the list is long.

But we may have different English versions of the Gospel.

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I should have done a search. My error

Daniel9v9 said:

Yeah, I think it should be closer to "order" than "advise". It is a holy command, not a suggestion.

For example, in the Great Commission, our Lord says:

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

"Command" here is the word Strong's Greek explains as to enjoin, charge, command and related to commandments. Another Lexicon describes it as: I give orders, injunctions, instructions, commands.

Perhaps I can add this one thing: To proclaim Christ, baptise in His name, and teach His Word is a command given to His Church, but it is a gift to the one who receives it. That is, the person who receives the Gospel and baptism and God's Word in general receives it as a gift by God's grace. So, in other words, what our Lord has given us is both a command and a gift.

Hope this helps! Blessings!

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After viewing the definition of the Greek word on line, here is what I saw:

Forms of the word
Dictionary:
ἐντολή, -ῆς, ἡ
Greek transliteration:
entolē
Simplified transliteration:
entole
Numbers
Strong's number:
1785
GK Number:
1953
Statistics
Frequency in New Testament:
67
Morphology of Biblical Greek Tag:
n-1b
Gloss:
command, commandment, regulation, an order that has authority
Definition:
an injunction; a precept, commandment, law, Mt. 5:19; 15:3, 6; an order, direction, Acts 17:15; an edict, Jn. 11:57; a direction, Mk. 10:5; a commission, Jn. 10:18, a charge of matters to be proclaimed or received, Jn. 12:49, 50; 1 Tim. 6:14; 2 Pet. 2:21

KerimF said:

By the way, I am afraid that when trust and love are imposed on someone to accept living them towards someone else they can be about anything but True Trust and Love.

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Jesus never forced anyone to follow him or to trust him. In Luke 8, after he cast out demons the people came and asked him to leave, so he left. Jesus gives us hope and life. We follow him because he loves us and he saves us not because we are forced. I believe that in order for a choice to follow Jesus to have meaning, we must allow people the choice to walk away. Sometimes I wish I could take the Gospel and beat people with it till their brains get screwed in right, but not because they are stupid or rebellious or spiteful, but because I am so afraid for them. The story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16 was to me more about the rich man than Lazarus. He was aware. He could think and feel. That story was told 2000 years ago and that man is still there in pain with no more hope. It would be easier if we could force people to believe and to do right, but it just doesn’t work that way; so, I try each day to do better to be a better Christian because they are dying everyday, the people of this Earth, and it is forever.

KerimF said:

Hello everyone,

On my Arabic Gospel, the verb ‘command’ in Jesus sayings is translated to a word whose meaning is close to the verb ‘advise’; it doesn’t sound, in any way, the verb ‘order’ (as in the army).

In other words, on the Arabic Gospel, Jesus (also my Father in Heaven since they are unified since before Creation by the Divine Spirit of Love, the Holy Spirit) acts always like a loving knowledgeable father who advises his beloved sons so that they can be aware, in advance, of whatever they may face in their life and helps them know how to overcome them.

“Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”


By the way, I am afraid that when trust and love are imposed on someone to accept living them towards someone else they can be about anything but True Trust and Love.

Kerim

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Whether it is advice, or like a law enforced by punishment, one needed faith to be healed: faith to go to Jesus, faith to repent, faith to believe one could be healed.

Joining the mob of the chief priests who wanted to kill Jesus with accusations of Sabbath violations or blasphemy was not to obey his commandments.

If the Biblical law tells me, you shall not murder and U.S. laws are against murder, if Jesus in his Sermon on the Mount tells me I should not murder or be angry with my brother, then I should not murder. Arguing whether it is advice or a commandment is a waste of time.

KerimF said:

Hello everyone,

On my Arabic Gospel, the verb ‘command’ in Jesus sayings is translated to a word whose meaning is close to the verb ‘advise’; it doesn’t sound, in any way, the verb ‘order’ (as in the army).

In other words, on the Arabic Gospel, Jesus (also my Father in Heaven since they are unified since before Creation by the Divine Spirit of Love, the Holy Spirit) acts always like a loving knowledgeable father who advises his beloved sons so that they can be aware, in advance, of whatever they may face in their life and helps them know how to overcome them.

“Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”


By the way, I am afraid that when trust and love are imposed on someone to accept living them towards someone else they can be about anything but True Trust and Love.

Kerim

Click to expand...

Wow, the ten suggestions ... I wonder if that's really the correct translation.

KerimF said:

Hello everyone,

On my Arabic Gospel, the verb ‘command’ in Jesus sayings is translated to a word whose meaning is close to the verb ‘advise’; it doesn’t sound, in any way, the verb ‘order’ (as in the army).

In other words, on the Arabic Gospel, Jesus (also my Father in Heaven since they are unified since before Creation by the Divine Spirit of Love, the Holy Spirit) acts always like a loving knowledgeable father who advises his beloved sons so that they can be aware, in advance, of whatever they may face in their life and helps them know how to overcome them.

“Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”


By the way, I am afraid that when trust and love are imposed on someone to accept living them towards someone else they can be about anything but True Trust and Love.

Kerim

Click to expand...

I looked up words translated as "command" in my electronic bible. There were 5 greek words translated into 1 english word in the text.



The only non-assertive context I came across was word 2036, that isn't usually translated as "command."



If you don't have a strongs dictionary tool, you can pop these numbers into the search at blueletterbible.org and see the word usage context in the bible as well as the definition.