Friendly (*ONLY) Jewish/Christian Interfaith Study - Anybody interested?

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BobRyan

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I think that would be the decision of the moderators. Anybody else have an opinion on moving the thread to the "barron wasteland" of Judaism threads?

The truth is that my views do NOT represent what either the Jewish people or Christians know to be Judaism, so that would be quite a misleading place to put it. It's more like a cross between both, as is my lineage. Basically I have no home to hang my hat...It's kind of lonesome out here. Jesus had the exact same problem, his information was unique, and most did not know what to make of it...:)

I think that would be a mistake since this area is for asking the very questions you are asking and comparing Christianity with other religions / beliefs etc to come to the right conclusion.

I don't think "judaism threads" are required to have this discussion here.
 
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Leaf473

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I think that would be the decision of the moderators. Anybody else have an opinion on moving the thread to the "barron wasteland" of Judaism threads?

The truth is that my views do NOT represent what either the Jewish people or Christians know to be Judaism, so that would be quite a misleading place to put it. My views are more of a cross between both religions, as is my lineage. Basically I have no home to hang my hat...It's kind of lonesome out here. Jesus had the exact same problem, his information was unique, and most did not know what to make of it...:)
I understand your quandary. You might open a support ticket and ask for advice of where the thread should go. To do that, I think you open a thread here:

https://www.christianforums.com/forums/supervisor-help-desk.1143/

I would hate to see this thread closed, if a staff member perceives that you're not using it to explore (trinitarian) Christianity. I think I also read a rule somewhere that questioning Paul's apostleship wasn't allowed, but I can't remember which forums that applied to.

My overall goal is to keep our discussion going, my friend!
 
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DarylFawcett

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I looked over this very friendly thread and as far as I am concerned the thread is presently OK in this area of Christian Forums.
 
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Moshe Shlomo

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Some Romans knew the Jewish laws and traditions. In the spring of 70 AD the Jews were entering Jerusalem for the seven day Passover festival. They had started a war by rebelling against Rome killing Roman soldiers. Once the Jews were inside the gates of the city, the Roman army surrounded them laying siege to the city. Many died of hunger. The Romans burned the city and destroyed the Temple not leaving one stone upon another stone. All that is left is the wailing wall, a retaining wall that held the earth the temple was built upon. The soldiers stole the golden menorah that was kept in the temple. It is depicted on the Arch of Titus in Rome as loot from the Jewish War. It was a large menorah.

Yes this is all true. In 63 bc, the Roman general Pompey captured Jerusalem. About 4 years before the destruction of the Temple, being that the people were trapped with no ability to replenish their food, the Jews saw the "writing on the wall" that the Romans would have no mercy on them, and a rebellion was their only chance for survival, if G-d would do a miracle and save them. Unfortunately, due to the lack of adequate repentence, the rebellion was quashed and the Romans breached the walls and then indiscriminately murdered about 1 million Jews young and old, women and children.

While it's easy for Christians to say that they all deserved it because they did not accept Jesus, (which may have helped) the true understanding of why nearly all of the Jews were slaughtered (effectively by G-d), and not just the leaders, is this principal, which is true for all time: According to the teachings of the Torah, to be considered "G-d's People" the Almighty insists on the Jews at the very least, follow one main principal, to love all of their fellow Jews as themselves (JESUS WAS A JEW TOO!), which was clearly taught by the great sage Hillel. He said, "Don't do unto others, what you would not like done to you, and this is THE Principal Rule of the Entire Torah, the rest is just commentary!!!"

This was a very bold statement, as meaning "if you do anything at all, at least treat your fellow Jew with respect". Of course, Jesus, in his great wisdom, raised the bar even further and wisely taught the hidden teaching of modern day Hassidus, "to actively DO to your fellow (acts of kindness) what you would like to be done to you". Had they listened, it would surely have brought G-d's great mercy upon them, as He loved the Jewish People as His first born son.
Exodus 4:22: "And you shall say to Pharaoh, 'So said the Lord, "My firstborn son is Israel."

To understand G-d's reasoning, you must first understand the wisdom of the Oral Torah. It teaches this parable: A man in a boat is drilling a hole under his seat, and the rest of the people said: "what are you doing? we will all drown!" And he replied, "don't you tell me what to, this spot under my seat is mine!"

This parable is this explained: In order for the Jews to be an effective "Nation of Priests" and a "Light to the Nations" in which G-d desired the Jewish People to teach the 50th Gate of Wisdom to the Nations (via the Messiah), Jews must understand that they MUST be considered an Organism of One, where all parts of the Organism are responsible for each other, thus they are also punished as One Organism. That means that if the Jewish nation is judged to be wicked (at that time), then the entire Organism must suffer the punishment together. It's a harsh reality, but it is the only way to be unified as One People.

Now like I explained, the first born status "Israel" is negotiable depending on their actions; therefore, it can be taken away and awarded to the best qualified person, and we know that BOTH Esau AND Jacob had first born status, one by birth, and then it was transferred to the other by achievement. Because of this fact, the status may be transferred back and forth thought history.

How could the Jews teach the entire world the "Main Principal" of the Torah, "Love your Fellow as Yourself" if they THEMSELVES are not able to Keep it!! This failure is always the reason why the Jews are punished, all as one, as in the Holocaust.

The main point to understand here is that if 51% of Jews are, G-d forbid, judged to be wicked, and only 49% of the Jews are Righteous, the whole generation is failed and must be punished together. It is clear to me, that G-d finally decided that He "needed" a "Rival Wife" to help in the rectification of the world, hense, the birth of the Church. But who is the Church, spiritually speaking?

To understand this, we must go all the way back to the pregnancy of Rebekah, the mother of Jacob and Esau, who were both Jews. Because of the extremely difficult pregnancy, She went to inquire of Shem (the son of Noah, who lived a very long time) what is going on. She said that every time she passes by a House of Torah, the baby makes an effort to get out, and also when she passes by a house of idol worship, the same thing happens.in Genesis 25:22-24:

"And the children struggled within her, and she said, "If [it be] so, why am I [like] this?" And she went to inquire of the Lord. כבוַיִּתְרֹֽצֲצ֤וּ הַבָּנִים֙ בְּקִרְבָּ֔הּ וַתֹּ֣אמֶר אִם־כֵּ֔ן לָ֥מָּה זֶּ֖ה אָנֹ֑כִי וַתֵּ֖לֶךְ לִדְר֥שׁ אֶת־יְהֹוָֽה:

The prophet Shem, spake a prophecy:

23And the Lord said to her, "Two nations are in your womb, and two kingdoms will separate from your innards, and one kingdom will become mightier than the other kingdom, and the elder will serve the younger."

According to the Oral Torah, the relationship of Jacob and Esau is like a see-saw. Only ONE can be on top at one given time. This is the idea of Jacob wresting the Guardian Angel of Esau, when wrestling, only one can be on top at a time. This is a fundamental Teaching in Judaism.


The Oral Torah teaches that up until age 13, Jacob and Esau , who were both Jewish and both circumcised on the 8th day, were identical in righteousness, but the Soul of Esau was much greater, which is why he was born first.

The Midrash explains that originally, Esau was supposed to be the inheritor of the Priesthood, which is the greatest portion; However, as we know, because he became wicked at age 15, he was deemed by G-d not worthy of it, and Jacob was.

The Kabbalah explains that because Esau's soul was from such a lofty source, G-d challenged him with a much greater evil inclination within his heart, as G-d always challenges mankind with tests according to their strengths. The great Sage The Paneach Roza, taught that this is exemplified by the fact that the Gematria of Esau is exactly Twice that of Jacob! [spelled in the non-defective form, with a vav].
386 =עשו
יעקוב =188

This is kinda of long, are there any questions up to this point before I continue?
 
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Leaf473

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Yes this is all true. In 63 bc, the Roman general Pompey captured Jerusalem. About 4 years before the destruction of the Temple, being that the people were trapped with no ability to replenish their food, the Jews saw the "writing on the wall" that the Romans would have no mercy on them, and a rebellion was their only chance for survival, if G-d would do a miracle and save them. Unfortunately, due to the lack of adequate repentence, the rebellion was quashed and the Romans breached the walls and then indiscriminately murdered about 1 million Jews young and old, women and children.

While it's easy for Christians to say that they all deserved it because they did not accept Jesus, (which may have helped) the true understanding of why nearly all of the Jews were slaughtered (effectively by G-d), and not just the leaders, is this principal, which is true for all time: According to the teachings of the Torah, to be considered "G-d's People" the Almighty insists on the Jews at the very least, follow one main principal, to love all of their fellow Jews as themselves (JESUS WAS A JEW TOO!), which was clearly taught by the great sage Hillel. He said, "Don't do unto others, what you would not like done to you, and this is THE Principal Rule of the Entire Torah, the rest is just commentary!!!"

This was a very bold statement, as meaning "if you do anything at all, at least treat your fellow Jew with respect". Of course, Jesus, in his great wisdom, raised the bar even further and wisely taught the hidden teaching of modern day Hassidus, "to actively DO to your fellow (acts of kindness) what you would like to be done to you". Had they listened, it would surely have brought G-d's great mercy upon them, as He loved the Jewish People as His first born son.
Exodus 4:22: "And you shall say to Pharaoh, 'So said the Lord, "My firstborn son is Israel."

To understand G-d's reasoning, you must first understand the wisdom of the Oral Torah. It teaches this parable: A man in a boat is drilling a hole under his seat, and the rest of the people said: "what are you doing? we will all drown!" And he replied, "don't you tell me what to, this spot under my seat is mine!"

This parable is this explained: In order for the Jews to be an effective "Nation of Priests" and a "Light to the Nations" in which G-d desired the Jewish People to teach the 50th Gate of Wisdom to the Nations (via the Messiah), Jews must understand that they MUST be considered an Organism of One, where all parts of the Organism are responsible for each other, thus they are also punished as One Organism. That means that if the Jewish nation is judged to be wicked (at that time), then the entire Organism must suffer the punishment together. It's a harsh reality, but it is the only way to be unified as One People.

Now like I explained, the first born status "Israel" is negotiable depending on their actions; therefore, it can be taken away and awarded to the best qualified person, and we know that BOTH Esau AND Jacob had first born status, one by birth, and then it was transferred to the other by achievement. Because of this fact, the status may be transferred back and forth thought history.

How could the Jews teach the entire world the "Main Principal" of the Torah, "Love your Fellow as Yourself" if they THEMSELVES are not able to Keep it!! This failure is always the reason why the Jews are punished, all as one, as in the Holocaust.

The main point to understand here is that if 51% of Jews are, G-d forbid, judged to be wicked, and only 49% of the Jews are Righteous, the whole generation is failed and must be punished together. It is clear to me, that G-d finally decided that He "needed" a "Rival Wife" to help in the rectification of the world, hense, the birth of the Church. But who is the Church, spiritually speaking?

To understand this, we must go all the way back to the pregnancy of Rebekah, the mother of Jacob and Esau, who were both Jews. Because of the extremely difficult pregnancy, She went to inquire of Shem (the son of Noah, who lived a very long time) what is going on. She said that every time she passes by a House of Torah, the baby makes an effort to get out, and also when she passes by a house of idol worship, the same thing happens. The prophet Shem, spake a prophecy in Genesis 25:22-24:

And the children struggled within her, and she said, "If [it be] so, why am I [like] this?" And she went to inquire of the Lord. כבוַיִּתְרֹֽצֲצ֤וּ הַבָּנִים֙ בְּקִרְבָּ֔הּ וַתֹּ֣אמֶר אִם־כֵּ֔ן לָ֥מָּה זֶּ֖ה אָנֹ֑כִי וַתֵּ֖לֶךְ לִדְר֥שׁ אֶת־יְהֹוָֽה:
23And the Lord said to her, "Two nations are in your womb, and two kingdoms will separate from your innards, and one kingdom will become mightier than the other kingdom, and the elder will serve the younger.

The Oral Torah teaches that up until age 13, Jacob and Esau , who were both Jewish and both circumcised on the 8th day, were identical in righteousness, but the Soul of Esau was much greater, which is why he was born first.

The Midrash explains that originally, Esau was supposed to be the inheritor of the Priesthood, which is the greatest portion; However, as we know, because he became wicked at age 15, he was deemed by G-d not worthy of it, and Jacob was.

The Kabbalah explains that because Esau's soul was from such a lofty source, G-d challenged him with a much greater evil inclination within his heart, as G-d always challenges mankind with tests according to their strengths. The great Sage The Paneach Roza, taught that this is exemplified by the fact that the Gematria of Esau is exactly Twice that of Jacob! [spelled in the non-defective form, with a vav].
386 =עשו
יעקוב =188

This is kinda of long, are there any questions up to this point before I continue?
No questions from me at this time. Please continue, if you wish.
 
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Moshe Shlomo

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No questions from me at this time. Please continue, if you wish.

Unfortunately, I've run out of time today, as I still have to do my morning prayers and them prepare for the Sabbath; However, I will continue, G-d willing, on Sunday. This will give plenty time for everyone to read what has been posted so far, and ask any questions, as it's extremely important information for understanding the rest of it as well. You won't be disappointed. Good Shabbos my friends!
 
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Joy

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