Friendly (*ONLY) Jewish/Christian Interfaith Study - Anybody interested?

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trophy33

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Mind you, that NOWHERE in the NT or anywhere else, does it ever indicate that a Christian Jew is no longer obligated to keep the eternal words of the Torah.

"Why then was the law given? It was added because of transgressions, until the arrival of the seed to whom the promise referred. It was administered through angels by a mediator."
...
Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian."

Gal 3:19-24
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
Thanks for that - I did not know about that history. And I am happy to see your agreement that Jesus was the Messiah! for sure.

But my question to you is about the actual argument Jesus was making in Matt 22 - what would the Sadducees have understood "His" position to be in that case He is making there... given the actual words He is using.

See the specific Matt 22 details in post #137

There are many parables in matt 22, please specify

here is post #137 quoted

Agreed - His teaching is for all humanity. In John 6 Jesus said He gave His life for the world.

I would like to get your perspective on a particular teaching of Jesus in Matthew 22. Matthew is a Jewish tax collector that accepted Jesus as the Messiah. (The gospel of Matthew is a good read). What is your POV on the case Jesus makes in Matt 22 - when addressing the Sadducees - to prove the future resurrection to a group that opposed Jesus' teaching on that very point?

First there is the challenge made to Jesus by the Sadducees:

23 The same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Him and asked Him, 24 saying: “Teacher, Moses said that if a man dies, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife and raise up offspring for his brother. 25 Now there were with us seven brothers. The first died after he had married, and having no offspring, left his wife to his brother. 26 Likewise the second also, and the third, even to the seventh. 27 Last of all the woman died also. 28 Therefore, in the resurrection, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had her.”​

Then Jesus' response:

29 Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.​

So it is easy to see what their point was and how Jesus was responding to it.

But then it is Jesus' turn to challenge the Sadducees on this very point of the doctrine of the future resurrection:

31 But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” 33 And when the multitudes heard this, they were astonished at His teaching.​

QUESTION for you: What do you think the Sadducees thought Jesus' argument was? How would it have appeared to them? What logic did he appear to be using from their POV?

Notice how observers of that debate saw the exchange:

34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question,

Question: IN what way was Jesus' argument considered to be unanswerable as per their statement that He had "silenced the Sadducees"??

======================

And we have this added hint from NT writers about the POV of the Sadducees -
Paul is on trial in a Roman court in Acts 23:

Acts 23:
6 But when Paul perceived that one part were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, “Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee; concerning the hope and resurrection of the dead I am being judged!”

7 And when he had said this, a dissension arose between the Pharisees and the Sadducees; and the assembly was divided. 8 For Sadducees say that there is no resurrection—and no angel or spirit; but the Pharisees confess both. 9 Then there arose a loud outcry. And the scribes of the Pharisees’ party arose and protested, saying, “We find no evil in this man; but if a spirit or an angel has spoken to him, let us not fight against God.”
 
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Moshe Shlomo

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Hi again Moshe,

I asked this question earlier, and I didn't see a response to it. If you don't want to respond, that's just fine.

But I also know it's easy on a thread like this that's moving fast to miss a post. So I wanted to bring it up again in case it was just something that got lost in the shuffle.

Also in light of what you wrote just recently:

So, was Jesus "supposed" to die? Or did that just happen because the Jews around him were bad people? Some other reason?

Very good question, and for the record, I will answer ALL questions to the best of my ability or admit that I do not know. If I miss someones question, please re-post!

It is very clear from the words of Jesus himself that he prophetically knew that he was going to die as a sacrifice for G-d. Nobody dies without G-d's permission. Nothing is by chance, so of course he was destined for this role and he knew it when he repeatedly talked about.

with that being said, according to the Oral Torah, the way it works is that if let's say someone is supposed to be murdered in a certain way, Satan's job is to entice the wicked to do it. If one refuses to follow his evil inclination and murder that person, he passes the test. Then Satan tests someone else until he finds someone who will carry out the deed, then He turns around and accuses him in the Heavenly court, and then he ultimately gets to bring G-d's revenge upon him by taking his soul.
So those Jews who decided to be the "Messenger of evil" failed in their test. Had they not, somebody else would have done it.

In Judaism, Satan is a very important angel who was enlisted by G-d to do 3 jobs:

1) testing humanity to see if they will sin
2) Accusing the sinner in the Heavenly court
3) Angel of Death

Satan is not a G-d, however, he is a unique type of angel that can grow more powerful when he succeeds in his heaveanly mission, to the detriment of his victims (or partners) who sin to empower him.

Every sin gives Satan even more power. The job of the Tikkun is for the Jews to ultimately destroy Satan by "starving" him, or "shrinking him" by not sinning. In the end of days, Satan will either be completely killed off or will be converted to good, both opinions are in the Oral Torah.

 
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Moshe Shlomo

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"Why then was the law given? It was added because of transgressions, until the arrival of the seed to whom the promise referred. It was administered through angels by a mediator."
...
Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian."

Gal 3:19-24

Listen, I can't explain everything in the NT, only specifically the words of Jesus. I am not 100% convinced that Paul was or was not a false prophet. While I have much confidence in the 12 apostles that Jesus chose, Paul was never chosen by Jesus in his lifetime and Jesus just might say about him "I never knew you" , as they never even met. I do not know for sure if everything in the NT is the word of G-d, all I can be 100% sure of is that G-d indeed gave his "Stamp of Approval" for the entire NT and OT to be bound together as one book and disseminated all over the world by the Christians. I know this because of the doctrine of Divine Providence , but I fear that there is a tremendous test built into the NT in properly understanding the NT with no Oral Torah to explain everything authoritatively. This is a big problem for Christianity AND Islam, and the reason for so many beliefs that are at odds with each other. The authentic Torah brings peace upon mankind, not war.

There are 2 Trees in the Garden of Eden. According to the Zohar, The Tree of Good and Evil is the Torah (and for argument sake, I'd even include the NT and the Koran, in a certain way, as possible extensions of the Torah) and the Tree of Life is the "Pardes", which includes the 4 parts of the Oral Torah that perfectly explain everything so as you cannot make a mistake of interpretation. These four parts are:

1) Pshat (Simple meaning of the Verse, (usually the Rashi commentary)
2) Remez (Hints and Clues hidden in the scriptures) Gematrias, etc.,
3) Drash (Homiletics - often encoded as a story with hidden meanings-Midrash)
4) Sod (the Secrets of the Torah) Kabbalah, Zohar, Hassidus etc.

Without this critical information, mankind is bound to err in interpreting the Torah, that's why the Written Torah is the Tree of Good and Evil and the Oral Torah is the Tree of Life. Face it, you can twist the Koran, OT or the NT any way you want to promote Hatred and the Killing G-d's people "for the sake of the Church", as the Crusaders did, or for ALLAH, OR you can interpret the same exact bible WITH the Oral Torah to learn that you should love and assist G-d's people in doing the Tikkun, which would be for your benefit. Many Many Christian Denomitions have come to the correct conclusion. I know this because I know many righteous Christians who tell me this. You Choose, just like Adam had a choice to either eat it or not. Believe G-d or the Snake, who is a liar. The choices mankind make will decide if they will see the Messianic Era or will be killed along with 2/3 of the entire world as prophecised of the End of Days.
This is serious business folks, please pay attention and care about your souls.
Go and Re-read Jesus's parable about the weeds and the final harvest, where few will survive.

Matthew 13:

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
 
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Leaf473

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Very good question, and for the record, I will answer ALL questions to the best of my ability or admit that I do not know. If I miss someones question, please re-post!

It is very clear from the words of Jesus himself that he prophetically knew that he was going to die as a sacrifice for G-d. Nobody dies without G-d's permission. Nothing is by chance, so of course he was destined for this role and he knew it when he repeatedly talked about.

with that being said, according to the Oral Torah, the way it works is that if let's say someone is supposed to be murdered in a certain way, Satan's job is to entice the wicked to do it. If one refuses to follow his evil inclination and murder that person, he passes the test. Then Satan tests someone else until he finds someone who will carry out the deed, then He turns around and accuses him in the Heavenly court, and then he ultimately gets to bring G-d's revenge upon him by taking his soul.
So those Jews who decided to be the "Messenger of evil" failed in their test. Had they not, somebody else would have done it.

In Judaism, Satan is a very important angel who was enlisted by G-d to do 3 jobs:

1) testing humanity to see if they will sin
2) Accusing the sinner in the Heavenly court
3) Angel of Death

Satan is not a G-d, however, he is the ONLY angel that can grow powerful when he wins.
Every sin gives Satan even more power. The job of the Tikkun is for the Jews to ultimatley Kill Satan by "starving" him, or "shrinking him" by not sinning. In the end of days, Satan will either be completely killed off or will be converted to good, both opinions are in the Oral Torah.
It's all good. I'm glad to hear that you want to respond to every question!

When you say that Jesus died "as a sacrifice for G-d", I assume you mean that his death atoned or in some way provided forgiveness for our sins.

But... wasn't there already a process in place in Torah for the forgiveness of sins?
 
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Moshe Shlomo

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It's all good. I'm glad to hear that you want to respond to every question!

When you say that Jesus died "as a sacrifice for G-d", I assume you mean that his death atoned or in some way provided forgiveness for our sins.

But... wasn't there already a process in place in Torah for the forgiveness of sins?

Very Good Question!

Yes, the Temple Sacrifices. The problem is that these sacrifices must be done with a pure heart and the correct intentions. Things got so bad that it is written in the OT that the corrupt priests were offering blind animals on the Holy alter, therefore, even if they were still doing sacrifices, they were likely no longer effective at all at that time.

These were not just strange ideas of the Jews, they are commandments of G-d on how to atone for our (and the worlds) sins. In case you did not know, G-d also commanded us to sacrificed 70 Bulls during the 7 day holiday of Sukkot every year, to atone for the sins of the 70 Nations as well (all gentiles). That's why it is such a paradox that nobody wants to assist the Jews to build the 3rd Temple, which would be beneficial to all... If the world really understood this concept properly, people would be clamoring and assisting the Jews to build it. The prophecies of and even the exact dimensions and details of the future 3rd Temple are described in the book of Ezekiel, so don't think that it will not happen, despite the world's objection.


I have been doing some very serious investigative study on this subject and I have uncovered something that I would like to share that I have not shared elsewhere, only with my wife. It is incredible, and actually shows how Jesus was indeed in place of the Pascal Lamb Sacrifice, which I believe represents the idea that a new nation of Israel is born, sort of like the idea of a competing wife (the Church). The idea that Jesus was the Pascal Lamb for the Church is highly significant, because to become a Jew, a circumcision is not enough. It required to take part in the Pascal Sacrifice, therefore these 2 elements must exist in the Church for Christians to claim it. I can't share this with any of my colleges for obvious reasons, but I would like to know what people on here think of this evidence I have dug up. The only problem is that it is kind of long to explain it so it would require a significant focus on the subject without being sidetracked, and a significant investment in time to understand, and I'm not sure if people on here would have the desire to go down this rabbit hole, as the ideas are based 100% in the Oral Torah.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Very Good Question!

Yes, the Temple Sacrifices. The problem is that these sacrifices must be done with a pure heart and the correct intentions. Things got so bad that it is written in the OT that the corrupt priests were offering blind animals on the Holy alter, therefore, even if they were still doing sacrifices, they were likely no longer effective at all at that time.

These were not just strange ideas of the Jews, they are commandments of G-d on how to atone for our (and the worlds) sins. In case you did not know, G-d also commanded us to sacrificed 70 Bulls during the 7 day holiday of Sukkot every year, to atone for the sins of the 70 Nations as well (all gentiles). That's why it is such a paradox that nobody wants to assist the Jews to build the 3rd Temple, which would be beneficial to all... If the world really understood this concept properly, people would be clamoring and assisting the Jews to build it. The prophecies of and even the exact dimensions and details of the future 3rd Temple are described in the book of Ezekiel, so don't think that it will not happen, despite the world's objection.


I have been doing some very serious investigative study on this subject and I have uncovered something that I would like to share that I have not shared elsewhere, only with my wife. It is incredible, and actually shows how Jesus was indeed in place of the Pascal Lamb Sacrifice, which I believe represents the idea that a new nation of Israel is born, sorta of like the idea of a competing wife (the Church). The idea that Jesus was the Pascal Lamb for the Church is highly significant, because to become a Jew, a circumcision is not enough. It required to take part in the Pascal Sacrifice. I can't share this with any of my colleges for obvious reasons, but I would like to know what people on here think of this evidence I have dug up. The only problem is that it is kind of long to explain it so it would require a significant focous on the subject without being sidetracked, and a significant investment in time to understand, and I'm not sure if people on here would have the desire to go down this rabbit hole, as the ideas are based 100% in the Oral Torah.

You can share whatever you want on this because a number of us already hold to some aspects of this idea more or less ...

References

Beckwith, Roger T., and Martin J. Selman, eds. Sacrifice in the Bible. Wipf and Stock Publishers, 2004.

Wilson, Marvin R. Our father Abraham: Jewish roots of the Christian faith. Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing, 1989.
 
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trophy33

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Listen, I can't explain everything in the NT, only specifically the words of Jesus. I am not 100% convinced that Paul was or was not a false prophet. While I have much confidence in the 12 apostles that Jesus chose, Paul was never chosen by Jesus in his lifetime...
I am afraid you have lost all mainstream Christians right there.

We cannot throw away the vast majority of the New Testament just to make some Jewish interpretation happy...
 
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Leaf473

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Very Good Question!

Yes, the Temple Sacrifices. The problem is that these sacrifices must be done with a pure heart and the correct intentions. Things got so bad that it is written in the OT that the corrupt priests were offering blind animals on the Holy alter, therefore, even if they were still doing sacrifices, they were likely no longer effective at all at that time.

These were not just strange ideas of the Jews, they are commandments of G-d on how to atone for our (and the worlds) sins. In case you did not know, G-d also commanded us to sacrificed 70 Bulls during the 7 day holiday of Sukkot every year, to atone for the sins of the 70 Nations as well (all gentiles). That's why it is such a paradox that nobody wants to assist the Jews to build the 3rd Temple, which would be beneficial to all... If the world really understood this concept properly, people would be clamoring and assisting the Jews to build it. The prophecies of and even the exact dimensions and details of the future 3rd Temple are described in the book of Ezekiel, so don't think that it will not happen, despite the world's objection.


I have been doing some very serious investigative study on this subject and I have uncovered something that I would like to share that I have not shared elsewhere, only with my wife. It is incredible, and actually shows how Jesus was indeed in place of the Pascal Lamb Sacrifice, which I believe represents the idea that a new nation of Israel is born, sorta of like the idea of a competing wife (the Church). The idea that Jesus was the Pascal Lamb for the Church is highly significant, because to become a Jew, a circumcision is not enough. It required to take part in the Pascal Sacrifice. I can't share this with any of my colleges for obvious reasons, but I would like to know what people on here think of this evidence I have dug up. The only problem is that it is kind of long to explain it so it would require a significant focous on the subject without being sidetracked, and a significant investment in time to understand, and I'm not sure if people on here would have the desire to go down this rabbit hole, as the ideas are based 100% in the Oral Torah.
Okay... I'm not sure if I understood everything you said there, but we'll move on and see where we end up.

Would you agree that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross in some way takes the place of the animal sacrifices talked about in Torah?
 
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Moshe Shlomo

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Okay... I'm not sure if I understood everything you said there, but we'll move on and see where we end up.

Would you agree that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross in some way takes the place of the animal sacrifices talked about in Torah?

Yes, but understand, this information below is purely theoretical in my book at this point
Overview of My Theory:
According to what I believe I've uncovered, 100% based on Torah Judaism, Jesus' Personal sacrifice is related to 3 things:

1) The Sacrifice of Isaac on the Alter by Abraham,
2) The Pascal Lamb offering, which is a necessary component for the Church to come into possession of a True (5 level) Yisroel Soul, which allows for the concept of a "New Israel " which would ultimately become
3) the "Rival Wife" of G-d. The Torah compares the Jewish People to the "Wife of G-d".
 
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Leaf473

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Yes, but understand, this information below is purely theoretical in my book at this point
Overview of My Theory:
According to what I believe I've uncovered, Jesus' Personal sacrifice is related to 3 things:
1) The Sacrifice of Isaac on the Alter by Abraham,
2) The Pascal Lamb offering, which is a necessary component for the Church to come into possession of a True (5 level) Yisroel Soul, which allows for the concept of a "New Israel " which would ultimately become
3) the "Rival Wife" of G-d. The Torah compares the Jewish People to the "Wife of G-d".
Okay... Does Jesus' sacrifice replace this sacrifice from Leviticus 6?

and he shall bring his trespass offering to the Lord for his sin which he has sinned: a female from the flock, a lamb or a goat, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for him concerning his sin.
 
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Moshe Shlomo

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I am afraid you have lost all mainstream Christians right there.

We cannot throw away the vast majority of the New Testament just to make some Jewish interpretation happy...

That's OK, like I said, I am not sure either way on that, so it's still negotiable in my mind, depending on what evidence I uncover. I have only begun my studies; However, I will not beat around the bush, and will be open with my ideas, as I know that G-d will eventually help me see the truth of the matter.
 
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Moshe Shlomo

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Okay... Does Jesus' sacrifice replace this sacrifice from Leviticus 6?

and he shall bring his trespass offering to Yahweh for his sin which he has sinned: a female from the flock, a lamb or a goat, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for him concerning his sin.

Yes and No. the Pascal Lamb sacrifice is the single most important sacrifice for the Church because it represents fulfilling the requirement of (the Church) becoming the "rival wife of Judah", which must be the initiation point; However, the concept of the sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham (that was never fully completed) is the one which atones for all sin, so in a sense, Jesus' personal sacrifice is also represented in that way, and effective in removing sin. Nobody can really prove or disprove this idea, as the "Sacrifice" of Isaac has no Torah definition of exactly what that was really accomplishing and remains a mystery to the Jewish People. It will all become clear to the reader in time, once I am able to fully explain the concept, but like I said, this is a little bit of a long explanation and I have only scratched the surface. I am quite certain that once you all see the light of the Oral Torah and what it can shed on Christianity, you will all appreciate and agree with me. This really has nothing to do with whether Jesus was Divine or not, which is a whole other subject, which I believe I can also explain according to the Oral Torah, where you will find it's a similar answer, Yes and No, but for now, I have to stick to the first subject, which is mandatory to understand first.
 
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Moshe Shlomo

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Please if anybody has any questions regarding my statements beginning with post #252, I would rather answer them as I go, as it's imperative to understand everything that I say, else you will not be able to wrap your head around it later.
 
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Yes and No. the Pascal Lamb sacrifice is the single most important sacrifice for the Church because it represents fulfilling the requirement of (the Church) becoming the "rival wife of Judah", which must be the initiation point; However, the concept of the sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham (that was never fully completed) is the one which atones for all sin, so in a sense, Jesus' personal sacrifice is also represented in that way, and effective in removing sin. Nobody can really prove or disprove this idea, as the "Sacrifice" of Isaac has no Torah definition of exactly what that was really accomplishing and remains a mystery to the Jewish People. It will all become clear to the reader in time, once I am able to fully explain the concept, but like I said, this is a little bit of a long explanation and I have only scratched the surface. I am quite certain that once you all see the light of the Oral Torah and what it can shed on Christianity, you will all appreciate and agree with me. This really has nothing to do with whether Jesus was Divine or not, which is a whole other subject, which I believe I can also explain according to the Oral Torah, where you will find it's a similar answer, Yes and No, but for now, I have to stick to the first subject, which is mandatory to understand first.

And what does your wife think about all of this?
 
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Moshe Shlomo

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I suppose I will continue, since there are no objections so far!

Passover has always been considered as an "Entry Pass into Judaism Requirement". Passover is so Important in Judaism, that it was declared to be the "New Years for the birth of the Jewish Nation", which is a very important concept in Judaism. In contrast, Rosh Hashana is the New Years of Creation.

G-d made a separate Make up holiday 30 days After Pesach, called the 2nd Passover "Pesach Sheini", which was a law that G-d "Officially" added by request, since some Jews requested a make-up holiday, because they were busy burying the dead (another commandment), and therefore, were impure and couldn't participate in the Pascal Lamb Sacrifice, which means they were not yet officially Jewish; Therefore, I believe that Jesus' personal sacrifice is also related to the Holiday of Pesach Sheini, as it also pertains to the Paschal Lamb and acquiring "Wife" Status. That's why he was killed on Pesach, which is very odd, as normally Jews would never be killed on a holiday, only right before the Holiday. Pesach is an exclusive Jew-Only holiday. That's why out of the only holidays that I could invite you to my Holiday table, only on Passover, no non-Jews are allowed to attend. This is not an intended insult, but a clear Written Torah Law.

Because these obscure Oral Torah teachings that I am about to share, are not popular among the Rabbis and are rarely discussed, most Jews do not even know about the Jewish teachings that I am going to present, as they only empower the Christians even more, and most Jews do not want to do that; However, I find that idea disingenuous and am willing to share them with you, so please appreciate what I am doing, as it can get me in hot water with my colleagues. That is why I will not post my picture or last name, and would prefer to remain anonymous to the public.
 
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Yes and No. the Pascal Lamb sacrifice is the single most important sacrifice for the Church because it represents fulfilling the requirement of (the Church) becoming the "rival wife of Judah", which must be the initiation point; However, the concept of the sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham (that was never fully completed) is the one which atones for all sin, so in a sense, Jesus' personal sacrifice is also represented in that way, and effective in removing sin. Nobody can really prove or disprove this idea, as the "Sacrifice" of Isaac has no Torah definition of exactly what that was really accomplishing and remains a mystery to the Jewish People. It will all become clear to the reader in time, once I am able to fully explain the concept, but like I said, this is a little bit of a long explanation and I have only scratched the surface. I am quite certain that once you all see the light of the Oral Torah and what it can shed on Christianity, you will all appreciate and agree with me. This really has nothing to do with whether Jesus was Divine or not, which is a whole other subject, which I believe I can also explain according to the Oral Torah, where you will find it's a similar answer, Yes and No, but for now, I have to stick to the first subject, which is mandatory to understand first.

Please if anybody has any questions regarding my statements beginning with post #252, I would rather answer them as I go, as it's imperative to understand everything that I say, else you will not be able to wrap your head around it later.
Sounds good! I'll start reading through post 258 and see what questions come up in my mind on that subject.
 
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Moshe Shlomo

Be Kind, it Costs Nothing
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And what does your wife think about all of this?

She is my study partner, and agrees with me 100%. She is a convert, but being that she grew up Southern Baptist, with 2 preachers as uncles, she knows a lot about Christianity, and like I said, 1/2 my family is Christian, because my mother is also a convert. Please understand that Jews do NOT encourage conversion to Judaism and that is not where I am going with this, as with the information I am going to present, you will fully understand that there is no reason to convert to Judaism, as your portion is already great, yet different.

For what it is worth, I will also add that I know for a fact that I am from the House of Levi, which was officially charged (by Torah) with the task of teaching the Torah to the Jews. I know this because I (and my Father also) have the DNA test proving that we a direct decedents of Aaron the Priest (son after son). I am NOT a Priest, as my family has lost the Priestly Status. This is because my father, who was an only son, was a holocaust orphan at age 4 and both his parents (and most of my family) were murdered in WW2, therefore, my grandfather was never able to pass on the tradition to my father, and it's now lost, preventing me or my father from functioning as a Priest, or a Levite, for that matter.
 
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