Have to disagree with that statement. Until God through the Holy Spirit invites us to open our hearts to Him we cannot have faith. We have to receive the grace of God before we can become believers and it is God who initiates that grace.
Your response here
Hi Clint, no problem. Of course you are free to believe whatever you wish as that is between you and God and I do not judge you *John 12:47-48. However, what is there to disagree about? Do you not believe Ephesians 2:8 says we are saved by God's grace through faith and that this faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God in Romans 10:17? These are God's Words not mine so your disagreement is not with me as they are not my words. If our faith comes by the Word of God and without faith it is impossible to please God and whatsoever is not of faith is sin *Hebrews 11:6; Romans 14:23; how can any one of us have Gods grace or salvation if we have no faith in what God's Word says, when faith comes by hearing and reading the Word of God? - We cannot. *John 3:36. According to Peter, God only gives His Spirit to those who believe and obey Him *see Acts of the Apostles 5:29; Acts of the Apostles 2:38; John 6:63. God invites us every time we hear or read His Word to believe it as Gods' Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God and works through Gods' Word as we have faith *see John 6:63. It is written in Isaiah 6:9-10; Matthew 13:13-15; Acts of the Apostles 28:26-27 "the many that are called" refuse to hear and see God's Word. It is only "the few that believe and follow Gods' Word that are the chosen" *Matthew 22:14; Matthew 7:1-23; John 10:26-27; 1 John 2:3-4. Let's all pray God might help us all to hear and see His Words and follow them and be a part of the few that are the chosen. This is my prayer for everyone here.
Your particular interpretation is in conflict with the word of Jesus. Jesus was very clear in John 6. If you know the Koine Greek, Jesus was more and more emphatic that we were to eat His True flesh, that is why many walked away. You say what Jesus told us is impossible, NOTHING is impossible for God.[/QUOTE]
In John 6:50-53 the Koine Greek word used for "eat" are forms of "phago." The Jews find the words of Jesus hard to believe, in John 6:54 forms of the word "trogein" or "trogo" begin to be used for "eat." "Trogein" means to chew, or gnaw, or masticate--when challenged Jesus, instead of telling them it is symbolic, does the opposite and makes it clear that He is speaking literally about eating His flesh. You say what Jesus tells us is impossible. What Jesus says in John 6 is the Word of God, NOTHING is impossible for God. Your opinions are outside of the words Jesus used in Holy Scripture, in contradictory of His words. You are thinking in terms of men, God is FAR above what you and I can comprehend. It is a "hard saying" indeed, Jesus lost many disciples because they could not believe. Prayerfully consider that, it is a warning to us all.
Indeed but the use of the Greek word for eat φάγω here no one is arguing about and they were never in contention. It is what is being eaten is in contention. Is it the literal flesh and blood of Jesus or the application to Jesus as God's living Word *1 John 1:1-4; 14 where the Word of God becomes flesh according to John 1:14 that we are to eat through believing that leads to everlasting life as shown through the scriptures already in the linked posts from post # 27 linked and in post # 38 linked? The literal eating and drinking of the flesh and blood of Jesus has no meaning and the Catholic doctrine of the literal eating and drinking of Christs flesh and blood called transubstantiation (more here linked) is not biblical or supported in the scriptures. Please address the linked posts that are in disagreement with you. Jesus says no where in scripture to literally eat His flesh and drink His blood. Your making that part up. You may also want to consider the chapter contexts from John 6:35-64 which is to believing and following what Gods' Word says and not believing. Pray about it and tell me how are you going to literally eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus and what benefit does that have over the application of the scriptures that have already been provided showing that we eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus who is God's Word that became flesh *John 1:1-4; 14 by believing and following what Gods' Word says that leads to everlasting life?
Ummm nope. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. Is Jesus literally a lamb here or was the lamb a symbol of Jesus as God's sacrifice for the sins of the world once and for all *John 1:29-36; Hebrews 10:10?
Soooo? You posted the scriptures I already quoted but left out the contexts of these scripture that have application to believing Gods Word but you still have not answered or addressed anything in the posts you have been quoting from. How does this support your view that Jesus these scriptures are talking about literally eating the flesh and Christ and drinking His blood and the scriptures not being symbolic to eating the flesh if Jesus by believing and following His Word? As already shown through the scriptures, Jesus is God's living Word of God *1 John 1:1-4; 14. According to the scripture, Jesus as Gods' Word becomes flesh *John 1:14 that we are to eat through believing and following God's Word that leads to everlasting life as shown through the scriptures already in the linked posts from post # 27 linked and in post # 38 linked? The literal eating and drinking of the flesh and blood of Jesus has no meaning and the Catholic doctrine of the literal eating and drinking of Christs flesh and blood called transubstantiation (more here linked) is not biblical or supported in the scriptures. I am still awaiting a response from you. Pray about it and tell me how are you going to literally eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus and what benefit does that have over the application of the scriptures that have already been provided showing that we eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus who is God's Word that became flesh *John 1:1-4; 14 by believing and following what Gods' Word says that leads to everlasting life?
Once again where does it say here we literally drink the blood of Christ? - It doesn't. Here let's add the scripture contexts back in...
Just as I thought. No response and no answers to the questions asked of you. See post # 311 and post # 313 linked. Where does in say in anything you have posted that we have to literally eat Christs flesh and drink the blood of Jesus? - It doesn't. Just the same as Jesus is literally not a lamb *John 1:29, a shepherd *Matthew 26:31; John 10:11, a door (John 10:9), a river of water *John 4:14 or a loaf of bread *John 6:35. These are all symbols that Jesus used like eating His flesh (The Word became flesh *John 1:1-4; 14) means believing and following His Word and drinking His blood receiving everlasting life. If we do not believe and follow Gods' Word we do not have everlasting life. This is why the scriptures are the only rule of faith because anything else that is not of faith in God's Word is sin *Ephesians 2:8; Romans 14:23. Any teaching therefore that leads us away from God and His Word is not from God.
Jesus never called His blood the fruit of the vine, you are adding to the words of Jesus. Jesus was not going to celebrate the Passover again with the Apostles on this earth.
The New Testament books were chosen by the Catholic Church in a process that spanned centuries. The Bible is the book of the Catholic Church, not the other way around. Any text that was not 100 percent in keeping with Catholic teaching was rejected. It has been, since those early centuries, the accepted fact that Jesus spoke literally in John 6. Take the time to read this understanding of the Church in the early centuries. And it is obvious here they took him literally. They questioned Jesus, and Jesus is even more emphatic they are to actually eat (using a Greek word meaning to "chew" his flesh.) When Jesus described himself as a door, his audience did not say "How can this man be made out of wood?" But in John 6 they questioned him as he made it as clear as can be they were to eat His true flesh.
Your post here does not answer any questions asked of you in the post you are quoting from and is non responsive to the scriptures shared with you and the questions asked of you. Please forgive me but I am not interested in the teachings of men outside of the scriptures. According to the scriptures, Jesus spoke in parables *Matthew 13:34-35 using symbols that have meaning. Just the same as Jesus is not literally a rock *1 Corinthians 10:4, lamb *John 1:29; 1 Peter 1:19, a shepherd *Matthew 26:31; John 10:11, a door *John 10:9, a river of water *John 4:14 or a loaf of bread *John 6:35. These are all symbols that Jesus used like eating His flesh (The Word became flesh *John 1:1-4; 14) means believing and following His Word and drinking His blood receiving everlasting life. If we do not believe and follow Gods' Word we do not have everlasting life *John 3:36. Now let's be honest. Where does it say anywhere in the bible that Jesus is literally a lamb *John 1:29; 36 1 Peter 1:19, a shepherd *Matthew 26:31; John 10:11, water *John 4:14 a door *John 10:9, a rock *1 Corinthians 10:4, or a loaf of bread *John 6:35? When Jesus says in Matthew 26:27-29 to take the cup of the vine representing His blood at the last supper where does it say in these scripture that this was literally the blood of Christ? - Yep no where. So many unanswered questions Valletta? Well as posted earlier, perhaps you can pray about it as the scriptures shared with you here do not agree with you and they are Gods Words not my words. God gave us the bible not the Roman Catholic Church and the Catholic Church did not write anything in the bible. We are better off believing Gods' Word than the teachings and traditions of men that lead us away from what Gods Word says. This is why the scriptures are the only rule of what faith *Romans 14:23; Hebrews 11:6 because our faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Words of God *Romans 10:17. Therefore we should believe the writings of Paul and Peter when they say only God's Words are true and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29. They both of course agreeing with Jesus who says that if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9.
Your teachings are outside of what Scripture says and are a flawed interpretation. The Catholic Church CHOSE the 73 books of the Bible in a centuries long process, certainly the Holy Spirit was at work through Christ's Church during that process. The Church had to decide what was God-breathed and what was not. I do understand it is your man-made tradition to not recognize the Eucharist and to believe it is impossible for God to allow us to eat His flesh in modern times. You don't have to believe me, I again urge you to read the writings of the early Christians, I quoted from Ignatius. The old prefigures the new, the spotless lamb as a sacrifice to be eaten.
