Embracing Socialism - a growing trend among Democrats

Ana the Ist · May 31, 2022

ottawak said:
And the delivery of medical services has never been a free market anyway.

Never? Not even in the days of miracles, snake oil, and imbalanced humours?

Ana the Ist · May 31, 2022

Hans Blaster said:
No it doesn't mean "government run".

When you go to your clinic do they have any signage about accepting or not accepting medicaid or new medicaid patients?

That signage would be about them already taking payments (or maybe not) from government programs.

Single payer doesn't mean single provider.

As for payment control, why should your doctor charge one insurer $80 for a basic exam, another $110, and a third $90? It's the same service. There is a whole lot "let's try to get away with whatever we can" in medical billing and very little that actually looks like free competition. After all when I select a medical plan (if I get a choice at all) I (and everyone else) am just looking at the benefits and expected costs to me (co-pays, premiums) that seem to be the best "bet" ahead of time.

There is one group that will suffer under the full implimentation of single payer -- medical insurance companies. It's tough to shed a tear for them.

A move to single payer in the US would probably be gradual and piecemeal anyway to minimize disruption. For example raising the maximum income limits for Medicaid, lowering the age limit for Medicare, moving some medical procedures or services to single payer first (pre-natal and infant care, screenings, catastrophic expenses).

This is a well thought out post....

To be honest though, I see no single payer medical coverage in the future. It's not just protectionism for insurance companies but we've become wedded to the medical/pharmaceutical industry just as much as the defense industry.

I could probably make a good argument for the defense industry. I can't for the medical industry.

hedrick · May 31, 2022

Ana the Ist said:
This is a well thought out post....

To be honest though, I see no single payer medical coverage in the future. It's not just protectionism for insurance companies but we've become wedded to the medical/pharmaceutical industry just as much as the defense industry.

I could probably make a good argument for the defense industry. I can't for the medical industry.

At least not until we have a solid, sustainable Democratic majority. I don’t think there is any question that they would do a single payer system if they could, though mostly likely by incremental steps, and with hospitals, doctors, etc remaining separate.

Ana the Ist · May 31, 2022

seeking.IAM said:
Is it so much better when:

Insurance Companies control pricing
Insurance Companies control hospitals
Insurance Companies control treatment plans
Insurance Companies control payments.
Insurance Companies control how much you are going to pay for healthcare.

The reason we don't have universal health care is because our insurance companies don't want us to have it and give campaign contributions to our legislators to ensure we don't.

I would call health insurers in the US a market inefficiency.

market inefficiency

Colloquially, they are middle manning the buyer.

Middleman Definition

This creates the certainty of a customer markup to create profits for the insurance company.

If anyone here genuinely believes in a free market healthcare system....you should be advocating for the complete abolition of health insurance companies.

I don't think this would actually cause medical costs to fall. I think they would rise. Healthcare insurance artificially limits the number of customers to medical providers/treatments allowing all parties involved (except the buyer of course) to raise prices.

Fantine · May 31, 2022

ottawak said:
What free market? There has never been a free market in health care.

US News and World Report says health care is not responsive to free market forces.

Ana the Ist · May 31, 2022

hedrick said:
At least not until we have a solid, sustainable Democratic majority.

You still think they're on the side of the working class?

I don't think so. Not after Clinton. Clinton deregulated the financial sector and began the communities reinvestment act or whatever it was called....

Which sounds well intentioned but later became the housing bubble which burst in 2008.

Pelosi outperforms the average career investor by about....I forget exactly.....40-50% depending upon the year?

These people aren't there to help you.

I don’t think there is any question that they would do a single payer system if they could,

I don't think they would.

though mostly likely by incremental steps, and with hospitals, doctors, etc remaining separate.

Yeah, you can't gut an industry that large without ripple effects....

Nothing about their current agenda suggests a single payer system to me. They want new boosters every year and little kids to be able to consent to their own sterilization. They represent companies now....and companies have tried to return the favor.

iluvatar5150 · May 31, 2022

Isilwen said:
Have the Republicans ever come up with anything better?

They came up with RomneyCare.

Sparagmos · May 31, 2022

hislegacy said:
Taxpayer funded means government run.

The Government controls pricing
The Government controls hospitals
The Government controls treatment plans
The Government controls payments.
The Government tells you how much you are going to pay for healthcare.

Governmental control is what socialism is known for.

Do you think Australia, Denmark, Japan, and the U.K are socialist? If so, sign me up!

Fantine · Jun 1, 2022

Instead of effective socialist medicine, we try to set up piecemeal social networks. Necessity is the mother if invention.

I completely understand about your mom sharing her inhalers. My oldest son needs a CPAP machine and his insurance is worse than ours. I told him to make sure he could connect the same masks and tubing as ours because we can get it every month and share with him. We have to beat them at their game and help one another.
When I replaced my CPAP machine I sent the old one to my sister's neighbor. Her insurance was bad and she was so grateful. Just ugh.

We gave my dad's portable wheelchair to a group of nuns when he died.

I know someone who self medicates with fish antibiotics if he thinks he needs them. That's what uninsured people do.

hislegacy · Jun 1, 2022

This is so much invasive than just medical care:

hislegacy · Jun 1, 2022

hislegacy said:
A number of high-profile Democrats are also embracing the idea of a job guarantee as expressed by Ocasio-Cortez’s extreme platform. Booker has devised such a plan, as has Sanders. Gillibrand has also expressed her support for the proposal.

Sir Winston Churchill famously said “the inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.”

Hans Blaster · Jun 1, 2022

hislegacy said:
This is so much invasive than just medical care:

The socialism seems to have gotten your grammar and destroyed the meaning of your sentence.

Pommer · Jun 1, 2022

hislegacy said:
This is so much invasive than just medical care:

Next they’ll try it with the military!

Embracing Socialism - a growing trend among Democrats

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