How are prophets called in modern times?

enoob57

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The context of Revelation 22:18 is the book of Revelation itself, not all prophecies in general.
This is so cookie cutter it's not funny... the book of Revelation takes us to the ending of this heaven and earth and all that was here forgotten 'ALL' and the new heaven and new earth that will be eternal exist and that is where the seal is placed... there's no more here to prophecy about! It shows a not thinking and when using the Word of God that can be deadly!!!
 
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pdudgeon

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The charitable thing in my opinion would be to give me the benefit of the doubt. If I really needed to prove something to you I could probably produce a few brothers who would tell you that I take my Christianity pretty seriously and wouldn't just throw it away by making false claims about dreams.
Perhaps, just perhaps it's more important to test the prophets for the outcome of what they say.
If it's from God, there will be no lack whatsoever of evidence to prove that the prophecy was indeed true.
 
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TruthSeek3r

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This is so cookie cutter it's not funny... the book of Revelation takes us to the ending of this heaven and earth and all that was here forgotten 'ALL' and the new heaven and new earth that will be eternal exist and that is where the seal is placed... there's no more here to prophecy about! It shows a not thinking and when using the Word of God that can be deadly!!!

Prophecies will cease when the perfect comes:

8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. (1 Corinthians 13:8-12 ESV)
When the perfect comes, we will see face to face and have perfect knowledge. Are we seeing face to face and do we have perfect knowledge now? I don't think so.
 
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pdudgeon

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Cessationists have been accused of quenching and grieving the Holy Spirit by denying that He works through the supernatural gifts in these modern times. If the Holy Spirit felt that Cessationists were so dangerous as to hinder His work in the body of Christ, you would think He would do something about it, by supplying proof of actual demonstration.
Umm sorry, but no. The proof of any prophecy is the real-time witnesses, and the archeological evidence left behind for scientists to find.
So we have the skeletans of animals that no longer exist, the footprints of dinosaurs, and ancient writings that preserve the last days of Jesus.
If God wants a record of a miracle, there will be one, and lots of witnesses.
 
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RickReads

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Perhaps, just perhaps it's more important to test the prophets for the outcome of what they say.
If it's from God, there will be no lack whatsoever of evidence to prove that the prophecy was indeed true.

But I didn`t prophecy anything. I said I had some abnormal dreams about spiritual things.
 
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enoob57

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Prophecies will cease when the perfect comes:

8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. (1 Corinthians 13:8-12 ESV)
When the perfect comes, we will see face to face and have perfect knowledge. Are we seeing face to face and do we have perfect knowledge now? I don't think so.
The Scripture indicated this of Scripture

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


What does it take to begat perfection? If the Scripture is able to make the man of God perfect what must Scripture be in order to begat perfection in the man?
 
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Carl Emerson

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The Scripture indicated this of Scripture

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


What does it take to begat perfection? If the Scripture is able to make the man of God perfect what must Scripture be in order to begat perfection in the man?

The Scripture doesn't make anything, the Holy Spirit does.
 
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RickReads

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The Scripture indicated this of Scripture

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


What does it take to begat perfection? If the Scripture is able to make the man of God perfect what must Scripture be in order to begat perfection in the man?

The perfection being addressed in this passage is perfect knowledge of Righteousness.
 
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TruthSeek3r

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The Scripture indicated this of Scripture

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


What does it take to begat perfection? If the Scripture is able to make the man of God perfect what must Scripture be in order to begat perfection in the man?

There are different types of "perfection" / "completion". I think the answer to this question might be enlightening: Are there different types of perfection according to Paul? 1 Corinthians 13:10, Philippians 3:12, 2 Timothy 3:17 & Ephesians 4:13

----------
Question
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1 Corinthians 13:8-12 (ESV):

8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

Philippians 3:12-21 (ESV):

12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. 13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. 16 Only let us hold true to what we have attained.

17 Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us. 18 For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things. 20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (ESV):

16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Ephesians 4:11-16 (ESV):

11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.

  • In 1 Corinthians 13:10 Paul talks about a perfection that hasn't come yet.
  • In Philippians 3:12 Paul talks about a perfection he hasn't attained yet.
  • In 2 Timothy 3:17 Paul talks about a kind of perfection/completeness facilitated by inspired Scripture, and the verse is phrased in a way that makes it sound like this kind of perfection is attainable in this life (or is it?).
  • In Ephesians 4:13 Paul talks about a kind of perfection that applies corporately to the whole body of Christ, facilitated by the appointed offices of apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds and teachers.
Questions
  • Does Paul have different types of perfection in mind?
  • When are/were/will these different types of perfection (be) actualized?
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Answer
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Complete

If we grant that (in the Greek words used) "perfect" and "complete" carry the same meaning, Paul is simply referring to different entities becoming "complete".

(3 of the 4 passages contain forms of τέλειος, and 2 Tim uses the somewhat-but-not-quite synonymous ἄρτιος, both of which can be translated as "perfect" or "complete")

--

Knowledge

In 1 Cor 13 Paul speaks of knowledge becoming complete (see vss. 9,12).

Although the timing is not given, the reference to face-to-face suggests a future appearance before God (judgment day?), and the passage echoes the thoughts of the millennarian prophecy in Isaiah 11:9, see also Habakkuk 2:14)

--

Paul himself

Paul acknowledges in Philippians that he is a work in progress. God has called him to be something more and will help him get there, but the master craftsman isn't done working on Paul just yet.

Paul appears (here & elsewhere) to have in mind a prize beyond this life.

--

The work of the kingdom

Paul suggests that the scriptures equip people for the work God intends them to do--note that the verb ἐξαρτίζω is used in parallel with the adjective ἄρτιος, suggesting the man who avails himself of the scriptures will be fully equipped.

There is no need to suggest that this level of preparedness is beyond mortal reach.

--

The church

Paul speaks of the body of Christ attaining a state of perfection or completion, and that God has given tools to get them there, but they aren't there yet. This passage could be read as a response to the question "why do we need apostles & teachers?".

If we accept the NT symbolism that the church is the bride being prepared for the bridegroom (similar motifs are found in the OT), and the wedding is at or after a future coming of Christ, this hasn't happened yet either.

--

Conclusion

Various people/entities can become complete in different ways. Paul speaks of most of these processes of development as things that are still a work-in-progress.

Lest we try to water-down the weight of "perfection" too much though, consider the following thought experiment:

Let's say God sets some very high standard ("perfection", "completion") for where He wants His children to be. The exact height of the standard is irrelevant to the thought experiment, as long as we are aware that it's beyond anything we'll get to in a ~75 year mortal sojourn. Does this mean we'll never reach that standard?

Hardly. For those willing to fully embrace not my will but Thine be done: if Almighty God has all eternity to work with them, why in the world wouldn't He be able to get them to the goal He has set?​
 
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enoob57

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The Scripture doesn't make anything, the Holy Spirit does.
I don't set the things of God against God... The Holy Scriptures are set to the specific use of God for The Holy Spirit to communicate the things of God to us... the Scriptures are sufficient

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)

[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


and the Scriptures we each will answer to for our activity

John 12:48 (KJV)

[48] He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 
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Carl Emerson

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I don't set the things of God against God... The Holy Scriptures are set to the specific use of God for The Holy Spirit to communicate the things of God to us... the Scriptures are sufficient

Not without the Holy Spirit.
 
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enoob57

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Not without the Holy Spirit.
Scripture is the work of The Holy Spirit

John 14:26 (KJV)

[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
 
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In modern times:
  • How can a person know if they are called to be a prophet?
  • How does God call prophets?
  • What does a divine call to be a prophet look like?

Typically one needs to go through a supernatural event in which God will identify who He is. Or else you don't know whether the invisible entity you encountered is God or not. More often, everything may start early in a prophet's life (i.e., long before he's anointed). At least a kind of concept is built up in the prophet's early life about what God can do such that God will do what you think that He can be identified with. God may also leave certain "markings" in your early life, just as Paul claims that he has the sign of Jesus in him. In a nutshell, when you are anointed and look back you will realize that things are arranged beforehand.

Then all left is for you to reckon God's messages in an unambiguous or nearly unambiguous manner. It involves confirmations from prophetic or miraculous activities. You may go through a process of reading messages from the simplest to the most complicated. That's how Paul claims that the gospel he preaches is from Jesus directly.

After reading then it's time for writing. You need to know how to get inspired and how to sort things in the order of importance, sometimes you may need to give up the chronicle order but sort information in the order of importance. When you are fully inspired, it is a burst of information inside your brain that you have to try your best to sort in the order of importance as later on the information may be gone.

In a nutshell, it's somehow about pattern recognition in a form and the synchronization with the Holy Spirit, then you'll be guided through.

That's the 2 cents which I can tell.
 
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TruthSeek3r

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Scripture is the work of The Holy Spirit

John 14:26 (KJV)

[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The activity of the Holy Spirit is not limited to written scripture. The Apostle Paul, author of the second epistle to Timothy (that you persistently keep quoting), experienced the lead of the Holy Spirit in extraordinary ways while in the mission field:

6 And they went through the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia. 7 And when they had come up to Mysia, they attempted to go into Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them. 8 So, passing by Mysia, they went down to Troas. 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night: a man of Macedonia was standing there, urging him and saying, “Come over to Macedonia and help us.” 10 And when Paul had seen the vision, immediately we sought to go on into Macedonia, concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them. (Acts 16:6-10 ESV)
See also:

Now there were in the church at Antioch prophets and teachers, Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen a lifelong friend of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then after fasting and praying they laid their hands on them and sent them off. (Acts 13:1-3 ESV)
See also:

9 He had four unmarried daughters, who prophesied. 10 While we were staying for many days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. 11 And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands and said, “Thus says the Holy Spirit, ‘This is how the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’” (Acts 21:9-11 ESV)​
 
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Carl Emerson

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I don't set the things of God against God... The Holy Scriptures are set to the specific use of God for The Holy Spirit to communicate the things of God to us... the Scriptures are sufficient

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)

[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


and the Scriptures we each will answer to for our activity

John 12:48 (KJV)

[48] He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

John 12:48 is speaking about the living Word of God, not the Scripture.
 
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Umm sorry, but no. The proof of any prophecy is the real-time witnesses, and the archeological evidence left behind for scientists to find.
So we have the skeletans of animals that no longer exist, the footprints of dinosaurs, and ancient writings that preserve the last days of Jesus.
If God wants a record of a miracle, there will be one, and lots of witnesses.
I totally agree!

But the problem is that getting a validated record of a miracle is like finding hen's teeth. One of the foremost proponents of miracle ministry is Bill Johnson. He runs his Bethel school of supernatural ministry. But none of his students were able to prevent Covid-19 sweeping through the school, and the local news reporter said that the school was one of the super-spreaders of the virus in the local community.

What it shows that Bill Johnson continues to talk and give speeches about achieving miracles, but never does it himself. His wife gave an inspiring speech about guaranteed healing through prayer, but soon after contracted inoperable cancer, and is now resorting to treatments outside the country, because the particular treatments are not authorised in the United States.

A prominent Word-Faith teacher, who asserted that he had authority over Covid-19 on a video, contracted the virus soon after and died from it.

It seems that Bill Johnson, his team, and Kenneth Copeland are hoping that no one will take issue over the fact that their own people are getting sick from the virus and no one is able to get them healed. It is as if they are sweeping the failures under the rug while continuing the speech making about guaranteed healing and miracles.

Bill Johnson actually said on a video that we need increased demonstration of miracles to shut the Cessationists down. The trouble is that he cannot provide the demonstration himself, neither can any of the Word-Faith guaranteed healing proponents.

It is interesting that all the videos that contain prophecies about Donald Trump winning the election have now disappeared from Youtube. But the false prophets are still giving their prophecies as if those videos never existed. Obviously they have swept their embarrassing failures under the rug!
 
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