Neanderthals and other archaic humans

RileyG · May 8, 2022

From a creationist perspective (I am NOT a creationist) did these species have immortal souls? Modern homo- sapiens have archaic human DNA according to modern science. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Will there be any Neanderthals in heaven? (or hell)?

I'm not going to lie. I've thought about this quite often.

RileyG · May 8, 2022

Did Jesus die for Neanderthals and how could they hear about the gospel message? Not joking, I'm seriously curious from the Christian perspective.

jacks · May 8, 2022

The Lord has a plan for all His creation. What it might be for Neanderthals is not something we know.

RileyG · May 8, 2022

jacks said:
The Lord has a plan for all His creation. What it might be for Neanderthals is not something we know.

I agree!

SavedByGrace3 · May 8, 2022

RileyG said:
From a creationist perspective (I am NOT a creationist) did these species have immortal souls? Modern homo- sapiens have archaic human DNA according to modern science. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Will there be any Neanderthals in heaven? (or hell)?

I'm not going to lie. I've thought about this quite often.

From the point of view of someone who holds to theistic evolution, I believe race(s) of humans existed prior to Adam and Eve. They evolved from the "beasts." They were not truly humans as we know them today, but I do believe they had souls, but not spirits. When the "gods" saw these beings, they said, "let us make man in our image" at which time they "upgraded" these pre-existing men to a greater level of intelligence, yet still not men like Adam and Eve. It was later that God formed a garden and created Adam and Eve and breathed a spirit into them. The children of Adam and Eve crossed with the evolved man and so we have what we see today.
The several branches of the evolved pre-adam man make up what we see in the fossil record i.e., Cro-magnon, Neanderthals, etc, etc...
Of course, many will disagree with this, and that is OK. This is an interpretation of the scriptures and nature that I can live with.

SkyWriting · May 8, 2022

RileyG said:
Did Jesus die for Neanderthals and how could they hear about the gospel message? Not joking, I'm seriously curious from the Christian perspective.

That's us.
All modern humans have Neanderthal DNA, new research finds

But to answer your question more directly:

Romans 1:20
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Romans 1:19
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.

Isaiah 40:26
Lift up your eyes on high and see: who created these? He who brings out their host by number, calling them all by name, by the greatness of his might, and because he is strong in power not one is missing.

Psalm 19:1-6
To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. Day to day pours out speech, and night to night reveals knowledge. There is no speech, nor are there words, whose voice is not heard. Their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun, which comes out like a bridegroom leaving his chamber, and, like a strong man, runs its course with joy.

Psalm 33:6-9
By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, and by the breath of his mouth all their host. He gathers the waters of the sea as a heap; he puts the deeps in storehouses. Let all the earth fear the Lord; let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him! For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood firm.

Psalm 8:3
When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place,

Romans 2:15
They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them

Deuteronomy 4:19
And beware lest you raise your eyes to heaven, and when you see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, you be drawn away and bow down to them and serve them, things that the Lord your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven.

DamianWarS · May 27, 2022

RileyG said:
I agree!

one thing we know is the gospel message according to biblical revelation is a book written for homo sapien humans. the specifics of how the gospel bleeds into other parts of creation is out of the scope of the bible and the gospel message as we know it.

From a theistic evoultion perspective, the creation account is truth through a non-literal account. Day 6 man is created and Neanderthals would be included like all primates would be, but as a non-literal account "almost man" doesn't fit and we should not think of Neanderthals being a part of this account (it's not for them). Even if you think Neanderthals are included the text still has a bias for homo sapien humans. It is this way because it was written for humans, not for other primates.

perhaps the earth is not 6000 years but the gospel message presents itself as only 6000 years old and can only tell us the story for humans. There is an absence of pre-biblical history which begs the question where was God then? Certainly, if nothing else the creation account shows us God was there since the beginning, and the also shows us God is in control and orchestrated all these things together for a common goal. But how the Neanderthals fit into this only God would know, perhaps there was an incarnation event for the Neanderthals too.

Sir Joseph · May 29, 2022

Your question presupposes Neanderthal man as a type of sub-human species. This is a popular view point shared by evolutionists and many Christians believing in pre-Adamites. Here's a very brief counter to that point.

Most of the misconceptions about Neanderthal man resulted from the 1908 claims of Frenchman Marcelin Boule who studied two Neanderthal skeletons and declared them as anatomically and intellectually inferior brutes who resembled apes more than humans. These highly biased and inaccurate views prevailed by evolutionists up to the mid-1950s.

In 1957, anatomists William Straus and A.J. Cave examined one of the French Neanderthals and determined that the individual suffered from severe arthritis, which had affected the vertebrae, jaw, and posture. These observations are consistent with the ice age climate in which Neanderthals would have lived. Seeking shelter in caves, lacking sunlight, and eating a poor diet could easily have led to diseases that affect the bones, such as rickets. In addition to anatomical evidence, there is a growing body of cultural evidence for the fully human status of Neanderthals. They buried their dead, had elaborate funeral customs, made a variety of stone tools, worked with skins and leather, made musical instruments, and even engaged in medical care.

In short, Neanderthals were human beings, with characteristics going no further in boundaries than current varying races. The continuing presentation of them as a man from ape transitional species is scientifically unfounded. So yes, there will be Neanderthals' souls in heaven and hell, dependent upon their faith in God like all other humans under the old covenant. But, I wouldn't expect to recognize them looking like the fabricated, artistic renderings we see in textbooks today.

hedrick · May 29, 2022

I agree that Neanderthals don’t seem inferior. But the question could be asked about other precursor species that were.

Skye1300 · May 29, 2022

Sir Joseph said:
Your question presupposes Neanderthal man as a type of sub-human species. This is a popular view point shared by evolutionists and many Christians believing in pre-Adamites. Here's a very brief counter to that point.

Most of the misconceptions about Neanderthal man resulted from the 1908 claims of Frenchman Marcelin Boule who studied two Neanderthal skeletons and declared them as anatomically and intellectually inferior brutes who resembled apes more than humans. These highly biased and inaccurate views prevailed by evolutionists up to the mid-1950s.

In 1957, anatomists William Straus and A.J. Cave examined one of the French Neanderthals and determined that the individual suffered from severe arthritis, which had affected the vertebrae, jaw, and posture. These observations are consistent with the ice age climate in which Neanderthals would have lived. Seeking shelter in caves, lacking sunlight, and eating a poor diet could easily have led to diseases that affect the bones, such as rickets. In addition to anatomical evidence, there is a growing body of cultural evidence for the fully human status of Neanderthals. They buried their dead, had elaborate funeral customs, made a variety of stone tools, worked with skins and leather, made musical instruments, and even engaged in medical care.

In short, Neanderthals were human beings, with characteristics going no further in boundaries than current varying races. The continuing presentation of them as a man from ape transitional species is scientifically unfounded. So yes, there will be Neanderthals' souls in heaven and hell, dependent upon their faith in God like all other humans under the old covenant. But, I wouldn't expect to recognize them looking like the fabricated, artistic renderings we see in textbooks today.

Good post! I always said that I believed there were more "races" of people that existed and then died out beyond the "races" we recognize today. The human body is capable of creating all kinds of groups of genes, look at the blue people that used to exist before they died out. They had blue skin and brown blood, not even red blood. It came from some kind of deficiency and inbreeding. The way men can have hair on their chest and arms and legs and back, it's very possible that there could have existed a "race" of humans that were even hairier than that in the past and then died out. The "race" gene pool was narrowed after the flood because we all descend from Noah's family, and there's only so many variations you can get from descendants of one lone family.

Skye1300 · May 29, 2022

hedrick said:
I agree that Neanderthals don’t seem inferior. But the question could be asked about other precursor species that were.

They don't really know for sure any of them were inferior, all they can do is assume. They used to be convinced that Africans were inferior and they were wrong. If the world stands long enough, we could be the Neanderthals of humans in the far far far distant future and they could be convinced that we were stupid. LOL

RileyG · Jun 2, 2022

Sir Joseph said:
Your question presupposes Neanderthal man as a type of sub-human species. This is a popular view point shared by evolutionists and many Christians believing in pre-Adamites. Here's a very brief counter to that point.

Most of the misconceptions about Neanderthal man resulted from the 1908 claims of Frenchman Marcelin Boule who studied two Neanderthal skeletons and declared them as anatomically and intellectually inferior brutes who resembled apes more than humans. These highly biased and inaccurate views prevailed by evolutionists up to the mid-1950s.

In 1957, anatomists William Straus and A.J. Cave examined one of the French Neanderthals and determined that the individual suffered from severe arthritis, which had affected the vertebrae, jaw, and posture. These observations are consistent with the ice age climate in which Neanderthals would have lived. Seeking shelter in caves, lacking sunlight, and eating a poor diet could easily have led to diseases that affect the bones, such as rickets. In addition to anatomical evidence, there is a growing body of cultural evidence for the fully human status of Neanderthals. They buried their dead, had elaborate funeral customs, made a variety of stone tools, worked with skins and leather, made musical instruments, and even engaged in medical care.

In short, Neanderthals were human beings, with characteristics going no further in boundaries than current varying races. The continuing presentation of them as a man from ape transitional species is scientifically unfounded. So yes, there will be Neanderthals' souls in heaven and hell, dependent upon their faith in God like all other humans under the old covenant. But, I wouldn't expect to recognize them looking like the fabricated, artistic renderings we see in textbooks today.

Informative! Thank you

RileyG · Jun 2, 2022

Skye1300 said:
Good post! I always said that I believed there were more "races" of people that existed and then died out beyond the "races" we recognize today. The human body is capable of creating all kinds of groups of genes, look at the blue people that used to exist before they died out. They had blue skin and brown blood, not even red blood. It came from some kind of deficiency and inbreeding. The way men can have hair on their chest and arms and legs and back, it's very possible that there could have existed a "race" of humans that were even hairier than that in the past and then died out. The "race" gene pool was narrowed after the flood because we all descend from Noah's family, and there's only so many variations you can get from descendants of one lone family.

Blue people? The Blue Fugates are still homo sapiens.

GodLovesCats · Jun 15, 2022

Skye1300 said:
They don't really know for sure any of them were inferior, all they can do is assume. They used to be convinced that Africans were inferior and they were wrong. If the world stands long enough, we could be the Neanderthals of humans in the far far far distant future and they could be convinced that we were stupid. LOL

Neanderthals were inferior because they lacked the size, strength, and brain power to compete against all the homo sapiens who lived during the same time period. Only homo sapiens were able to cross an ocean and discover the western hemisphere unless they first married Neanderthals. It was survival of the fittest. Neanderthals were literally married out of existence since all the mixed species children had homo sapiens traits and passed them on. This is not about their skin color, but Charles Darwin's theory of evolution that also explains the extinction of short-necked giraffes.

RileyG · Jun 16, 2022

ChristianForCats said:
Neanderthals were inferior because they lacked the size, strength, and brain power to compete against all the homo sapiens who lived during the same time period. Only homo sapiens were able to cross an ocean and discover the western hemisphere unless they first married Neanderthals. It was survival of the fittest. Neanderthals were literally married out of existence since all the mixed species children had homo sapiens traits and passed them on. This is not about their skin color, but Charles Darwin's theory of evolution that also explains the extinction of short-necked giraffes.

Then how could neanderthals and homo-sapiens procreate together if they are inferior? just curious?

stevevw · Jun 16, 2022

RileyG said:
From a creationist perspective (I am NOT a creationist) did these species have immortal souls? Modern homo- sapiens have archaic human DNA according to modern science. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Will there be any Neanderthals in heaven? (or hell)?

I'm not going to lie. I've thought about this quite often.

I think as far as our bodies go, the biology and DNA and all that this is different to our soul. Our soul is the defining feature between us and animals. So the body is just a vessel and it doesn't matter how that came about as this will be done away with in the end.

So maybe the our bodies were just the template or prototype that is shared by other animals leading up to Neanderthal and it is only homo sapiens that can be equipped with a soul and consciousness.

GodLovesCats · Jun 16, 2022

RileyG said:
Then how could neanderthals and homo-sapiens procreate together if they are inferior? just curious?

The same way horses and donkeys are able to procreate together.

Skye1300 · Jun 16, 2022

ChristianForCats said:
The same way horses and donkeys are able to procreate together.

But their offspring are born sterile.

RileyG · Jun 16, 2022

ChristianForCats said:
The same way horses and donkeys are able to procreate together.

That's true.

GodLovesCats · Jun 16, 2022

Skye1300 said:
But their offspring are born sterile.

According to who?

Neanderthals and other archaic humans

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