To Seem, Rather Than To Be? (Trans Ideology)

TLK Valentine · May 22, 2022

didactics said:
So in other words, you don’t think the message got lost, instead, you think the writers fabricated the stories?

I think they altered the stories. Big difference.

didactics · May 22, 2022

TLK Valentine said:
I think they altered the stories. Big difference.

But I asked if the message got lost, and the answer was, no. How was the message obscured? I’m just unaware of this belief about the Bible. What would be the motive to obscure the intended message?

TLK Valentine · May 22, 2022

didactics said:
But I asked if the message got lost, and the answer was, no. How was the message obscured? I’m just unaware of this belief about the Bible. What would be the motive to obscure the intended message?

Who says anything got obscured? The message came through loud and clear... From the people who altered the stories.

Ken-1122 · May 22, 2022

TLK Valentine said:
Actually, they/them can be singular. Consider the following:

Which of these two sentences is grammatically correct?

Everybody is going to be at Bob's party.

Everybody are going to be at Bob's party.

1, of course, because the word "everybody" is grammatically singular.

No, in that example, "everybody" is plural meaning more than one.

TLK Valentine said:
Now, let's add to our grammatically correct sentence:

Everybody is going to be at Bob's party. They will get there by 6:30, and I'm going to be there waiting for them.

Again; plural. They and them in this instance implies more than one person showing up at 6:30, not a single person.

ottawak · May 22, 2022

didactics said:
So in other words, you don’t think the message got lost, instead, you think the writers fabricated the stories?

Or altered them, which has been reasonably suggested as more likely. The message is not lost, it resides in the altered stories. I was under the impression that you believed in the divine inspiration of scripture. Pardon me if I was mistaken.

TLK Valentine · May 22, 2022

Ken-1122 said:
No, in that example, "everybody" is plural meaning more than one.

And yet grammatically, it uses the singular form verb "is" as opposed to the plural form "are."

Another example: which sentence is grammatically correct?

1. Everybody wants the new iPhone.
2. Everybody want the new iPhone.

We've got the verb "to want" in the simple present tense, expressed in both its third-person singular and third-person plural forms. Which one is correct?

Go on, I'll wait...

ToddNotTodd · May 22, 2022

didactics said:
So in other words, you don’t think the message got lost, instead, you think the writers fabricated the stories?

Again… the Bible might be mythology, the same as any other mythology.

didactics · May 22, 2022

ottawak said:
Or altered them, which has been reasonably suggested as more likely. The message is not lost, it resides in the altered stories. I was under the impression that you believed in the divine inspiration of scripture. Pardon me if I was mistaken.

So if it’s altered, they are known changes, but if it’s obscured, then the changes are concealed. If you will, can you offer an example of Scripture being modified, changed enough to convey a different message?

So let me see if I can piece this together. [The Bible doesn’t describe reality.] But clearly the Bible’s claim is that a real Deity exists. [It’s not any different than any other mythology.] But Greek mythology in particular had a plurality of deities. Maybe their purpose was mainly to offer allegories, but the Bible made many predictions.

TLK Valentine · May 22, 2022

didactics said:
So if it’s altered, they are known changes, but if it’s obscured, then the changes are concealed.

Not at all. "Obscured" could also mean that the troublesome messages were omitted entirely.

So let me see if I can piece this together. [The Bible doesn’t describe reality.] But clearly the Bible’s claim is that a real Deity exists. [It’s not any different than any other mythology.] But Greek mythology in particular had a plurality of deities. Maybe their purpose was mainly to offer allegories, but the Bible made many predictions.

The Bible made many predictions after they happened... kind of the opposite of a "prediction," really.

Ken-1122 · May 22, 2022

TLK Valentine said:
And yet grammatically, it uses the singular form verb "is" as opposed to the plural form "are."

True! But the subject is “everybody” the predicate is what they are doing (going to Bob’s party), so while the subject is plural, the predicate is singular due to everybody doing the same thing; the predicate is singular; not the subject.

TLK Valentine said:
Another example: which sentence is grammatically correct?

1. Everybody wants the new iPhone.
2. Everybody want the new iPhone.

We've got the verb "to want" in the simple present tense, expressed in both its third-person singular and third-person plural forms. Which one is correct?

Go on, I'll wait...

Again; the subject is everybody; plural. The predicate (what they want) is singular

didactics · May 22, 2022

TLK Valentine said:
Not at all. "Obscured" could also mean that the troublesome messages were omitted entirely.

The Bible made many predictions after they happened... kind of the opposite of a "prediction," really.

If you will, can you offer an example of Scripture being modified, changed enough to convey a different message?

ToddNotTodd · May 22, 2022

didactics said:
If you will, can you offer an example of Scripture being modified, changed enough to convey a different message?

The burden of proof is on the person claiming the Bible corresponds to reality.

TLK Valentine · May 22, 2022

didactics said:
If you will, can you offer an example of Scripture being modified, changed enough to convey a different message?

Certainly! But to do that, we'll have to look at the Gospels...

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Now look at Matthew 13:55, allegedly the same incident: Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

Can you spot the alteration Matthew made? I can.
And... I can tell you why he altered it... but first things first: Spot the alteration.

TLK Valentine · May 22, 2022

Ken-1122 said:
True! But the subject is “everybody” the predicate is what they are doing (going to Bob’s party), so while the subject is plural, the predicate is singular due to everybody doing the same thing; the predicate is singular; not the subject.

And the verb is to agree in number with the subject, not the predicate.

I'll humor you and ask you this question -- which one of these is grammatically correct?

The Harris brothers is going to be at Bob's party.
The Harris brothers are going to be at Bob's party.

Same predicate, plural subject. Time to pass third-grade English class...

Again; the subject is everybody; plural. The predicate (what they want) is singular

Once again, verbs are to agree with subjects, not predicates.

Really, this is third-grade English class -- If I cannot believe you on Earthly things, why should I believe you on Heavenly things?

didactics · May 22, 2022

TLK Valentine said:
Certainly! But to do that, we'll have to look at the Gospels...

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Now look at Matthew 13:55, allegedly the same incident: Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

Can you spot the alteration Matthew made? I can.
And... I can tell you why he altered it... but first things first: Spot the alteration.

The Bible wouldn’t need to have make-believe proof of fulfilled prophecy, if the stories recount actual events in history.

Marks Gospel mentions that the sisters there were present, and Matthews Gospel does not include those words. I wouldn’t call it an alteration. That’s Matthew’s account. He wasn’t saying the sisters weren’t there.

Ken-1122 · May 22, 2022

TLK Valentine said:
And the verb is to agree in number with the subject, not the predicate.

I disagree! The subject is concerning the person involved, the verb describes what he is doing. You can have a single person doing multiple things, or multiple people doing a single thing.

TLK Valentine · May 22, 2022

didactics said:
Marks Gospel mentions that the sisters there were present, and Matthews Gospel does not include those words. I wouldn’t call it an alteration. That’s Matthew’s account. He wasn’t saying the sisters weren’t there.

Sorry, no... you missed the alteration. Try again?

TLK Valentine · May 22, 2022

Ken-1122 said:
I disagree!

You disagree with basic grammar, then. And you embarrass yourself in doing so.

The subject is concerning the person involved, the verb describes what he is doing. You can have a single person doing multiple things, or multiple people doing a single thing.

Bob is/are going to the party.
Bob is/are going to the party, washing his car, and eating a sandwich.

Impress me.

didactics · May 22, 2022

TLK Valentine said:
Certainly! But to do that, we'll have to look at the Gospels...

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Now look at Matthew 13:55, allegedly the same incident: Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

Can you spot the alteration Matthew made? I can.
And... I can tell you why he altered it... but first things first: Spot the alteration.

Oh, I see, your problem is not with the omission of the sisters, as they are mentioned in the next verse (Mt 13:56). You're noticing that Matthew uses the name Joseph and Mark uses Joses.

TLK Valentine · May 22, 2022

didactics said:
Oh, I see, your problem is not with the omission of the sisters, as they are mentioned in the next verse (Mt 13:56). You're noticing that Matthew uses the name Joseph and Mark uses Joses.

Sorry, strike two.

I'll give you one more guess before letting you off the hook.

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