Historicist Only The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse Revealed in the True Structuring of the Revelation

Jerryhuerta · May 22, 2022

Part 1

by Jerry Huerta
Copyright 2022

The four horsemen of the apocalypse have evoked a great deal of interest and angst in Western society for thousands of years. Today, many believe they have already ridden forth, like the preterists, or have yet to appear, like the futurists. However, the proper interpretation of the horsemen lies in knowing what they represent, the period they manifest, and where they rise by using the scriptures as the expositor. Using the Bible as the expositor, the historicist’s model correctly places the four horse riders in time and space.

As stated in previous works, the epistle to the Hebrews affirms that the active judgments portrayed in the Revelation, starting with the seven churches, are confined to the mediation of Christ under the New Covenant, affirmed by the symbolism in the book. In Revelation 1:13, Christ is “clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle,” representing Christ’s mediation, typified by the Aaronic mediation in Leviticus 8:7. This attire affirms Christ’s mediation in the Revelation. The seven candlesticks also typified Christ’s mediation. In truth, the scriptural evidence that the Revelation represents Christ’s mediation undermines the preterist model, as the kingdom to come in Matthew 6:10 is the age to come. In this age, we struggle against the tares; the Revelation affirms this.

But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. (Revelation 2:25-27)

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. (Revelation 3:21)

The point being is that the preterist’s presupposition that this present age represents Christ’s reign defies that Christ’s reign actively subjects “all things” under him, according to 1 Corinthians 15:25-28. Subjecting all things under Christ emphasizes a “pacification” of his enemies, ending the acceptance of the tares alongside the good seed. The tares cannot be allowed to grow and maintain that Christ makes his enemies his footstool simultaneously. The destruction of the tares must commence Christ’s reign. “All things” are not “pacified” by Christ until he returns.

But when the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit on the throne of his glory: and before him shall be gathered all the nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats; and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. (Matthew 25:31-33)

The fate of the goats is everlasting fire while the earth is pacified, all things on earth are brought under Christ in the age to come; that is Premillennialism.

In the fifth seal, the phenomenon of the four-horse riders is why the souls cry out for God to avenge them by judging their tormentors.

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. (Revelation 6:9-10)

The fifth seal is a witness of Christ’s mediation. The Aaronic mediation could not provide for the vindication of those upholding the word of God after Christ’s crucifixion. Preterism fails to grasp that the Aaronic mediation ended with the ascension of Christ to the right hand of the Father.

For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. (Hebrews 7:26-28)

The oath in verse 28 was prophesied in Psalms 110 and fulfilled at Christ’s ascension.

The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. (Psalm 110:1-4)

The preterists fallaciously maintain the overlapping of the two mediations. However, scripture affirms the change of the priesthood accompanied a change in the law, ending the old to establish the new.

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law… For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. (Hebrews 7:12, 18)

Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all… Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God. (Hebrews 10:5-10, 18-21)

Christ offered his blood for the remission of our sins at his ascension ending the sacrifices for sin done under the Aaronic mediation, bringing that mediation and priesthood to an end. Therefore, the judgment portrayed by the fifth seal is Christ’s meditation as the Revelation cannot be viewed as the temple’s destruction in A.D. 70 but concerns the cleansing of the house of God before his return.

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. (Hebrews 9:28}

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. (Revelation 19:11-15)

The judgment adjured by the saints of the fifth seal falls upon those “that obey not the gospel,” which follows the judgment upon the saints according to scripture.

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? (1 Peter 4:17)

This judgment is not a determination like the one that ended Babylon (Daniel 5:26-28) but the one that determines the fate of the beast and the false prophet when Christ returns.

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Revelation 19:20)

Jerryhuerta · May 22, 2022

Part 2

In the fifth seal, the saints must rest for a little season until their fellow servants should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. This little season supports an approaching finality to the judgment on the house of God and anticipates the impending judgment upon those who obey not the gospel. As established above, the fifth seal is indicative of Christ’s mediation. Therefore, the little season cannot be determined as the sum between the two advents as the traditionalist historicists have wrought but must represent only part of the judgment on the house of God, specifically the last part (Hebrews 9:28). As conveyed above, 1 Peter 4:17 expresses the thought here, which is expertly interpreted by a professor at Wheaton College, Karen H. Jobes,

Peter is saying that eschatological judgment, understood as the sorting out of humanity, begins with God’s house, defined in 2:4–5 as those who come to Christ and are built as living stones into a spiritual house. The contrast in 4:17b is between “those who reject the gospel of God” and “us,” a group in which Peter probably includes himself and all whom he considers to be genuine Christians. Those who profess Christ are the first ones to be tested in God’s judging action, and it occurs during their lives and throughout history. The Great Tribulation of the final days immediately preceding the return of Christ is the most severe form of this testing. The testing that persecution because of Christ presents, wherever it occurs, is of one piece with the final eschatological judgment, because persecution sorts out those who are truly Christ’s from those who are not.2

Prominent in the four horse riders, the fifth seal and the judgment of the harlot Babylon in the Revelation is the convergence of God's judgments upon His people by their enemies, their obtaining mercy, and the punishment of their enemies. Hengstenberg noted the same convergence concerning the book of Joel and Amos.

The whole announcement of punishment and judgment upon the heathen nations has sense and meaning, only when, in the preceding context, there has been mention made of the crime which they committed against the Lord and His people. In that case, we have before us the three main subjects of prophecy,—God's judgments upon His people by heathen enemies, their obtaining mercy, and the punishment of the enemies. At the very beginning of chap. iv. (iii.) the sufferings of Israel, described in chap. i. and ii., and the judgment upon the heathen, are brought into the closest connection. According to chap. iv.1, 2, the gathering of the Gentiles is to take place at a time when the Lord will return to the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, i.e., according to the constant usus loquendi (compare my Commentary on Psalm 14:7), when He will grant them, mercy, and deliver them from their misery.[1] But that this misery can be none other than that described in chap. i. and ii. appears simply from the fact, that this has been declared to be the close of all the judgments of God.3

Said convergence and the consequence of the “little season” further substantiates that the four horse riders and the harlot Babylon represent God’s closing judgments upon the Church for her apostasies, prophesied in the New Testament (Matthew 5:13, 24:12; Romans 14:10; 2 Corinthians 5:10; 2 Thessalonians 2:1–12; 1 Timothy 4:1–3). As related in the prior work, The Influence of Hengstenberg on the True Structuring of the Revelation,4 this association with apostasy is also supported in the warnings to the final church eras. The fifth church era, Sardis, conveys a major falling away brought on by the denunciation: “thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead” (Revelation 3:1). And the admonitions to the sixth church, Philadelphia, also convey an impending judgment in which all the world is involved.

And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write… behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name… Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. (Revelation 3:7, 8, 10)

Contemporary historicists Frank W. Hardy, Ph.D., of Historicism.org, comments on the connection between the open door in Revelation 3:8 and 4:1 and judgment,

The last of the churches is Laodicea, which means "a people judged." The idea of judging is meaningless without a corresponding judgment. For more than 150 years we have taught (a) that we are the church of Laodicea and (b) that the judgment is taking place now. What I propose here is bringing the two claims together and supporting them from Rev 4-5. There is no new doctrine here, but only a new way of defending two established doctrines in a unified manner.

If the throne scene occurs in the timeframe to which the letters have brought us, then even though the material is presented in successive chapters, the throne scene does not follow the message to Laodicea in time but occurs simultaneously with it. Laodicea is judged during the time of the judgment. The judgment occurs during the time of Laodicea. These things are happening now…

Notice that the church of Philadelphia does not go through the door but that it stands "before" them. Going through it represents the transition from Philadelphia to Laodicea, when so many were disappointed and turned away. "I have placed before you an open door" (Rev 3:8). "After this I looked and saw a door standing open in heaven (Rev 4:1). We must learn to see the connection between these two passages. The door that John sees "standing open" at the beginning of chap. 4 is the same one mentioned in the letter to Philadelphia during the time leading up to 1844. What John sees in Rev 4-5 would occur not in the timeframe of Philadelphia, but later, in the timeframe of Laodicea – the church associated with judgment.5

Hardy’s work agrees with the timing of Sardis and its association with the Reformation and the rise of Protestantism. The impact of the Enlightenment on Protestantism is hardly deniable. Protestantism devolved into denominationalism and its corrupt influence of secularism upon the kings and princes in Christendom (circa 16th to 17th century). This impact led to the Second Great Awakening, circa the nineteenth century, which agrees with Hardy’s era for the church of Philadelphia. No doubt, that revival was brief in the broader sense as liberal Protestantism ultimately accommodated the enlightenment and secularism, becoming the Laodicean church in the twentieth century. Nevertheless, Hardy’s thesis agrees with the consequence that the “little season” in the fifth seal substantiates that the four horse riders and the harlot Babylon represent God’s closing judgments upon the Church for her apostasies.

As to the futurist interpretation of the Revelation, they view the seals as in the future. The Church is raptured before the phenomenon of the seven seals. However, such a view cannot maintain that the Revelation is Christ’s mediation, for they see its subject matter pertain only to the literal descendants of Israel after the Church is raptured. Nevertheless, that would be a regression to the Old Covenant that only pertained to the literal descendants, with few exceptions. The evidence that the Revelation pertains to Christ’s mediation for the Church thwarts the futurist interpretation.

The four horse riders or seals are a judgment upon the house of God, not unlike the Babylonian captivity done under the Old Covenant. In Jeremiah, “horsemen and bowmen” represented God’s agent Babylon in the judgment of Judah because “as a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore, they are become great, and waxen rich.”

Declare ye in Judah, and publish in Jerusalem; and say, Blow ye the trumpet in the land: cry, gather together, and say, Assemble yourselves, and let us go into the defenced cities. Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction… The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein. And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life. For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers. (Jeremiah 4:5-6, 29-31)

For among my people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as he that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men. As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich. They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked: they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge. Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this? (Jeremiah 5:26-29)

The imagery of God’s people and their antagonists in Jeremiah is one of the keys in interpreting the four horse riders and the harlot Babylon in the Revelation; the harlot Babylon is given the same imagery.

So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. (Revelation 17:3-6)

Jerryhuerta · May 22, 2022

Part 3

The same metaphors of harlotry and being decked in crimson, gold, and precious stones are used in Jeremiah to describe God’s fallen people and the imagery of horse riders and bowmen to describe the people sent against them for their apostasy. Returning to The Influence of Hengstenberg on the True Structuring of the Revelation,6 the Church is not a nation with borders and dominion as was ancient Israel, which precludes God from sending a heathen nation against the Church in agreement with the Old Covenant. Under Christ’s mediation, the enemies or foes of the Church are of their own house, comprised of the tares: “Let both grow together until the harvest” (Matthew 13:30).

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. (Matthew 10:34-36)

In Jeremiah, ancient Babylon did not represent God’s fallen people, depicted as a harlot decked out in crimson, gold, and precious stones. It was God’s people depicted so and reveals the harlot in the Revelation as the fallen church, or the apostates growing alongside and overpowering the good seed in later times. God uses the apostates in the Church, those within their own house, to judge his people, illustrated as the harlot Babylon and the four horse riders. As Hardy held, this commenced with the twentieth century. This is why God’s people are called to come out of Babylon.

And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. (Revelation 18:1-5)

At the realization that a good deal of the Church has fallen and the remnant’s enemies are within their gates, they come out of Babylon before she receives the plagues in the last days.

The petitions of the saints in the fifth seal are answered in the sanctuary scene in Revelation 8; the seven trumpets are the solutions. The judgments in trumpets are not in the past, as traditional historicists have interpreted them, but in our future. The antitypical judgments of the trumpets represent Yom Kippur (Leviticus 25:9-10), noting that the sealing precedes the seven trumpets, ending the fiery trial at the hands of the four horsemen upon the sealed ones (Revelation 9:4). The locust army exemplifies this trial in Joel and Amos 7, rendered as Yom Teruah by astute scholars. At the sealing of the saints, the separation of those who are Christ’s from apostates occurs. The judgment of the wicked, which would include the little horn, cannot commence until the fate of the saints is sealed, conveyed by the fifth seal. The judgment in the Revelation is for covenant violations, especially in light of 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 2 Timothy 3:1-7, Luke 8:11–13, 1 Timothy 4:1–4, Hebrews 3:12–14, and especially concerning the Laodicean church era. God’s response to covenant violations in the OT was discipline, and Babylon was the definitive choice of his instrument for discipline. This is the object of mystery Babylon in the Revelation, as she is drunk “with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs” (Revelation 17:2, 6).

No doubt, Protestantism led to the secularization of society. However, few note the pernicious, harmful ramifications of the paradigm shift in Protestantism today. Our work (Thy Kingdom Come: Re-evaluating the Historicist’s Interpretation of the Revelation) documents numerous sources supporting our thesis. In addition to our sources, Dr. Steve Turley comments on the pernicious effects of secularism in his book,

Scholars have long recognized that secularization is rooted in the notion of modernity. Modernity is comprised of the philosophical commitment to scientific rationalism as the sole objective mechanism for political, economic, and cultural management. Rooted in such rationalism, modernity sees all pre-modern societies, particularly those governed by religious commitments, as inherently irrational, and thus asserts itself as the one true political, economic, and cultural meaning system for all nations and peoples. In the twentieth-century, the West has proclaimed liberal democracy as the ultimate political system, the Soviet East proclaimed communism as the ultimate economic system, and Italy and Germany declared fascism as the ultimate cultural meaning system.7

Here we have support for our thesis that secularization fostered a form of liberal authoritarianism in the West and such oppressive regimes as communism and fascism.

In The Quarterly Journal of Economics, November 2018, under the article by Davide Cantoni, Jeremiah Dittmar, and Noam Yuchtman, we read,

Using novel microdata, we document an important, unintended consequence of the Protestant Reformation: a reallocation of resources from religious to secular purposes. To understand this process, we propose a conceptual framework in which the introduction of religious competition shifts political markets where religious authorities provide legitimacy to rulers in exchange for control over resources.8

The authors’ thesis conveys that the Protestants consorted with the kings of the earth to favor secular projects instead of religious ones. In essence, they had intercourse with the kings of the earth to take away the church’s influence in society. By any rational account, this fulfills what John states about mystery Babylon,

Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. (Revelation 17:1-2)

The article continues,

Graduates of Protestant universities increasingly took secular, especially administrative, occupations. Protestant university students increasingly studied secular subjects, especially degrees that prepared students for public sector jobs, rather than church sector specific theology. Second, it affected the sectoral composition of fixed investment.9

In other words, the dissident Protestants sifted society away from the church sector to public sector occupations. This shift enhanced the state’s ability to develop nationality, to increase its wealth, and expand its markets, which inevitably led to the illustration of the rider of the white horse that “went forth conquering and to conquer.” This shift took peace from the earth as the Protestant nations fought over the world’s resources in their colonization of other dominions, as depicted by the rider of the red horse. Their machinations in the prices of goods and services led to surpluses and famines, as illustrated by the rider of the black horse. Their economic upheaves in distant colonies led to great hardships for the indigenous, represented by the pale horse rider.

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[1] Jerry Huerta, Christ’s Mediation Affirms the True Structuring of the Revelation, 2022, (1) Christ’s Mediation Affirms the True Structuring of the Revelation | Jerry Huerta - Academia.edu

[2] Karen H. Jobes, 1 Peter, (Baker Academic, 2005), 291.

[3] Ernst Wilhelm Hengstenberg, Christology of the Old Testament, Vol. 1 (Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark, 1871) 320.

[4] Jerry Huerta, The Influence of Hengstenberg on the True Structuring of the Revelation, The Influence of Hengstenberg on the True Structuring of the Revelation by

[5] Frank W. Hardy, Ph.D., “Historicism and the Judgment A Study of Revelation 4-5 and 19a,” Historicism.org, (August 8, 2006, Modified April 15, 2010), 2, 3. http://www.historicism.org/Documents/Lecture1Rev4-5.pdf

[6] Huerta, The Influence of Hengstenberg on the True Structuring of the Revelation

[7] Stephen R. Turley, President Trump and Our Post-Secular Future: How the 2016 Election Signals the Dawning of a Conservative Nationalist Age, CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform (December 16, 2017) 9.

[8] Davide Cantoni, Jeremiah Dittmar, and Noam Yuchtman, Religious Competition and Reallocation: The Political Economy of Secularization in the Protestant Reformation, The Quarterly Journal of Economics (2018), 2037–2096. doi:10.1093/qje/qjy011. Advance Access publication on June 6, 2018.

[9] Ibid.

A_Thinker · May 22, 2022

Jerryhuerta said:
No doubt, Protestantism led to the secularization of society.

When was society not secular ?

Jerryhuerta · May 22, 2022

A_Thinker said:
When was society not secular ?

Are you a Historicist?

3 Resurrections · May 22, 2022

Jerryhuerta said:
The preterists fallaciously maintain the overlapping of the two mediations. However, scripture affirms the change of the priesthood accompanied a change in the law, ending the old to establish the new.

I am married to a Historicist, and personally, I ascribe to many Preterist views. But I do not acknowledge any kind of "overlap" between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. Some who are Preterists do, but I don't. As you have said, it's very clear that the "change in the law" accompanied the New Covenant with a New Priesthood after the order of Melchizedek. No overlap whatever.

Jerryhuerta said:
The point being is that the preterist’s presupposition that this present age represents Christ’s reign defies that Christ’s reign actively subjects “all things” under him, according to 1 Corinthians 15:25-28. Subjecting all things under Christ emphasizes a “pacification” of his enemies, ending the acceptance of the tares alongside the good seed.

I would object to this assumption also. Being "subjected" to Christ's rule does not necessarily result in those enemies being "pacified" by having their hatred of Christ taken away. As you quoted from Psalms 110:2, Christ was promised to "rule in the midst of thine enemies". This means the antagonism of those still-existing enemies would be continuing at that point, but that those enemies could not any longer deny Christ's rule over them. And this did happen in the AD 70 era, when the Jews who had betrayed and murdered Christ the "King of the Jews" could no longer deny that their temple and priesthood system was dead and torn down to the last stone.

I find there is much of a mistaken impression of what God's enemies being made a "footstool" actually means. Being a "footstool" is a blessing, not a punishment. The physical temple in Jerusalem once used to be called "God's footstool" (I Chronicles 28:2, Psalms 132:7). It was a physical place where ritually pure communication between God and humanity could take place, as pictured by the cloud of incense on that altar in front of the Holy of Holies. During the time when a physical temple had existed in Jerusalem, this kind of ritually-pure communication between God and man had been rather limited in scope. But under the New Covenant with God's Holy Spirit implanted within each believer and never leaving them - this introduced the concept of the "footstool" of purified communication with God to an entirely new mode of operation. The implanted Holy Spirit united with our spirit intercedes for each of us at the throne of God in heaven, and no intermediary except Christ our Great High Priest is necessary.

Under the New Covenant inaugurated at Christ's ascention on His resurrection day, every nation, including those of the Gentiles, was turned into a "footstool" with this available access of communication with the throne of heaven - not just the city of Jerusalem with its temple as it used to be. This already-existing fact was manifested obviously to one and all, once that Jerusalem temple and the city were destroyed in the AD 70 era.

A_Thinker · May 22, 2022

Jerryhuerta said:
Are you a Historicist?

Do you know of a time when human society was not secular ?

Trivalee · May 22, 2022

Jerryhuerta said:
Part 1

by Jerry Huerta
Copyright 2022

The four horsemen of the apocalypse have evoked a great deal of interest and angst in Western society for thousands of years. Today, many believe they have already ridden forth, like the preterists, or have yet to appear, like the futurists. However, the proper interpretation of the horsemen lies in knowing what they represent, the period they manifest, and where they rise by using the scriptures as the expositor. Using the Bible as the expositor, the historicist’s model correctly places the four horse riders in time and space.

As stated in previous works, the epistle to the Hebrews affirms that the active judgments portrayed in the Revelation, starting with the seven churches, are confined to the mediation of Christ under the New Covenant, affirmed by the symbolism in the book. In Revelation 1:13, Christ is “clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle,” representing Christ’s mediation, typified by the Aaronic mediation in Leviticus 8:7. This attire affirms Christ’s mediation in the Revelation. The seven candlesticks also typified Christ’s mediation. In truth, the scriptural evidence that the Revelation represents Christ’s mediation undermines the preterist model, as the kingdom to come in Matthew 6:10 is the age to come. In this age, we struggle against the tares; the Revelation affirms this.

But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. (Revelation 2:25-27)

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. (Revelation 3:21)

The point being is that the preterist’s presupposition that this present age represents Christ’s reign defies that Christ’s reign actively subjects “all things” under him, according to 1 Corinthians 15:25-28. Subjecting all things under Christ emphasizes a “pacification” of his enemies, ending the acceptance of the tares alongside the good seed. The tares cannot be allowed to grow and maintain that Christ makes his enemies his footstool simultaneously. The destruction of the tares must commence Christ’s reign. “All things” are not “pacified” by Christ until he returns.

But when the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit on the throne of his glory: and before him shall be gathered all the nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats; and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. (Matthew 25:31-33)

The fate of the goats is everlasting fire while the earth is pacified, all things on earth are brought under Christ in the age to come; that is Premillennialism.

In the fifth seal, the phenomenon of the four-horse riders is why the souls cry out for God to avenge them by judging their tormentors.

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. (Revelation 6:9-10)

The fifth seal is a witness of Christ’s mediation. The Aaronic mediation could not provide for the vindication of those upholding the word of God after Christ’s crucifixion. Preterism fails to grasp that the Aaronic mediation ended with the ascension of Christ to the right hand of the Father.

For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. (Hebrews 7:26-28)

The oath in verse 28 was prophesied in Psalms 110 and fulfilled at Christ’s ascension.

The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. (Psalm 110:1-4)

The preterists fallaciously maintain the overlapping of the two mediations. However, scripture affirms the change of the priesthood accompanied a change in the law, ending the old to establish the new.

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law… For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. (Hebrews 7:12, 18)

Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all… Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God. (Hebrews 10:5-10, 18-21)

Christ offered his blood for the remission of our sins at his ascension ending the sacrifices for sin done under the Aaronic mediation, bringing that mediation and priesthood to an end. Therefore, the judgment portrayed by the fifth seal is Christ’s meditation as the Revelation cannot be viewed as the temple’s destruction in A.D. 70 but concerns the cleansing of the house of God before his return.

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. (Hebrews 9:28}

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. (Revelation 19:11-15)

The judgment adjured by the saints of the fifth seal falls upon those “that obey not the gospel,” which follows the judgment upon the saints according to scripture.

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? (1 Peter 4:17)

This judgment is not a determination like the one that ended Babylon (Daniel 5:26-28) but the one that determines the fate of the beast and the false prophet when Christ returns.

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived em that worshipped his image. These both any.eterists on the other hand argue that the rapture will occur before the Great

Jerryhuerta · May 22, 2022

3 Resurrections said:
I am married to a Historicist, and personally, I ascribe to many Preterist views. But I do not acknowledge any kind of "overlap" between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. Some who are Preterists do, but I don't. As you have said, it's very clear that the "change in the law" accompanied the New Covenant with a New Priesthood after the order of Melchizedek. No overlap whatever.

I would object to this assumption also. Being "subjected" to Christ's rule does not necessarily result in those enemies being "pacified" by having their hatred of Christ taken away. As you quoted from Psalms 110:2, Christ was promised to "rule in the midst of thine enemies". This means the antagonism of those still-existing enemies would be continuing at that point, but that those enemies could not any longer deny Christ's rule over them. And this did happen in the AD 70 era, when the Jews who had betrayed and murdered Christ the "King of the Jews" could no longer deny that their temple and priesthood system was dead and torn down to the last stone.

I find there is much of a mistaken impression of what God's enemies being made a "footstool" actually means. Being a "footstool" is a blessing, not a punishment. The physical temple in Jerusalem once used to be called "God's footstool" (I Chronicles 28:2, Psalms 132:7). It was a physical place where ritually pure communication between God and humanity could take place, as pictured by the cloud of incense on that altar in front of the Holy of Holies. During the time when a physical temple had existed in Jerusalem, this kind of ritually-pure communication between God and man had been rather limited in scope. But under the New Covenant with God's Holy Spirit implanted within each believer and never leaving them - this introduced the concept of the "footstool" of purified communication with God to an entirely new mode of operation. The implanted Holy Spirit united with our spirit intercedes for each of us at the throne of God in heaven, and no intermediary except Christ our Great High Priest is necessary.

Under the New Covenant inaugurated at Christ's ascention on His resurrection day, every nation, including those of the Gentiles, was turned into a "footstool" with this available access of communication with the throne of heaven - not just the city of Jerusalem with its temple as it used to be. This already-existing fact was manifested obviously to one and all, once that Jerusalem temple and the city were destroyed in the AD 70 era.

There is never any monolithic thought in any school of eschatology, but by your own concession that the Revelation represents Christ’s mediation you contradict the preterist's interpretation of the Revelation. The consequence of Christ’s mediation on the Revelation is that temple must be interpreted under the New Covenant and not the Old; we are the temple in this age and under the New Covenant (1 Cor. 3:16; Eph. 2:19-22; 1 Peter 2:5). Texts such as Revelation 11:1-2 cannot pertain to the temple destroyed in AD 70, which is the preterist’s view.

As to Psalm 110:2, the context is after Christ’s enemies are made his footstool then he comes out of Zion! That is not centripetal but centrifugal in movement. That is, he is striking forth from somewhere and no longer sitting at the right hand of the Father, which is when he returns.

Furthermore, it goes on to say that his people are willing on that day, as opposed to the first advent when “He came unto his own, and his own received him not” (John 1:11). And that sentiment of his people was not intended to diminish according to Paul: “…blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in” (Romans 11:25). To this day the greater part of the Jews still deny Christ.

As to your assertions on the nature of the footstool, let me cite Hebrews.

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him" (Hebrews 2:8 emphasis mine)

Jerryhuerta · May 22, 2022

A_Thinker said:
Do you know of a time when human society was not secular ?

Do you know what the establishment clause in the first amendment means?

Trivalee · May 22, 2022

3 Resurrections said:
I find there is much of a mistaken impression of what God's enemies being made a "footstool" actually means. Being a "footstool" is a blessing, not a punishment. The physical temple in Jerusalem once used to be called "God's footstool" (I Chronicles 28:2, Psalms 132:7). It was a physical place where ritually pure communication between God and humanity could take place, as pictured by the cloud of incense on that altar in front of the Holy of Holies. During the time when a physical temple had existed in Jerusalem, this kind of ritually-pure communication between God and man had been rather limited in scope. But under the New Covenant with God's Holy Spirit implanted within each believer and never leaving them - this introduced the concept of the "footstool" of purified communication with God to an entirely new mode of operation. The implanted Holy Spirit united with our spirit intercedes for each of us at the throne of God in heaven, and no intermediary except Christ our Great High Priest is necessary.

Under the New Covenant inaugurated at Christ's ascention on His resurrection day, every nation, including those of the Gentiles, was turned into a "footstool" with this available access of communication with the throne of heaven - not just the city of Jerusalem with its temple as it used to be. This already-existing fact was manifested obviously to one and all, once that Jerusalem temple and the city were destroyed in the AD 70 era.

There is no basis to claim that being made a "footstool" to God is a blessing. The context leaves no ambiguity to the meaning: Heb 10:13 KJV From henceforth expecting his enemies be made his footstool. Any interpretation contrary to absolute capitulation to the will of God is erroneous. The comparison of 'footstool' as a metaphor in 1 Chron 28:2 and Psalm 132:7 is out of place with its contextual usage in Heb 10:13.

Again, only a Preterist would argue that all nations have become the Lord's footstool since his ascension. What is troubling here is your earlier denial that you don't share the views of Preterists. So either you are actually a Preterist or you're unwittingly contradicting yourself.

Rev 11:15 KJV And the seventh angel sounded, and there were great voices in Heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign for ever and ever!”

The above text indicates that the nations will come under the rulership of the Messiah from the 3 Woe. It, therefore, makes zero sense to claim it started either from the day of ascension or 70 AD.

3 Resurrections said:
I would object to this assumption also. Being "subjected" to Christ's rule does not necessarily result in those enemies being "pacified" by having their hatred of Christ taken away. As you quoted from Psalms 110:2, Christ was promised to "rule in the midst of thine enemies". This means the antagonism of those still-existing enemies would be continuing at that point, but that those enemies could not any longer deny Christ's rule over them. And this did happen in the AD 70 era, when the Jews who had betrayed and murdered Christ the "King of the Jews" could no longer deny that their temple and priesthood system was dead and torn down to the last stone.

There is a case to be made in the argument that the enemies of Christ, though "pacified" into obedience to the rulership of Christ, will not necessarily forsake their hatred for him. The support for this viewpoint is evident in the large segment of the unconverted at the end of the millennium open to Satan's call for arms against Christ (Rev 20:7-8)

grafted branch · May 22, 2022

Jerryhuerta said:
The consequence of Christ’s mediation on the Revelation is that temple must be interpreted under the New Covenant and not the Old; we are the temple in this age and under the New Covenant (1 Cor. 3:16; Eph. 2:19-22; 1 Peter 2:5). Texts such as Revelation 11:1-2 cannot pertain to the temple destroyed in AD 70, which is the preterist’s view.

Hi Jerry, can I get your thoughts this …

John can measure or count those who worship in Revelation 11:1 but those in Revelation 7:9 are a great multitude that no man can number. If it is possible to count believers who are currently the temple in this age would that make those in Revelation 7:9 people in a different age?

Jerryhuerta · May 22, 2022

grafted branch said:
Hi Jerry, can I get your thoughts this …

John can measure or count those who worship in Revelation 11:1 but those in Revelation 7:9 are a great multitude that no man can number. If it is possible to count believers who are currently the temple in this age would that make those in Revelation 7:9 people in a different age?

The Greek word translated “measure” is metron which suggests an assessment that is made to a standard, not a numbering of individuals. I have to agree with those who interpret the phenomenon as the antitypical cleansing of the sanctuary or Yom Kippur. On Yom Kippur, an assessment is made of the congregation.

3 Resurrections · May 23, 2022

Jerryhuerta said:
As to your assertions on the nature of the footstool, let me cite Hebrews.

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him" (Hebrews 2:8 emphasis mine)

This was speaking of mankind, who originally in the Garden of Eden had all the world put under their feet to have dominion over it (Genesis 1:28). This dominion over the created world was then abdicated when the original couple obeyed Satan's temptation. "His servants ye are to whom ye yield yourselves to obey". This action of the original couple made Satan the "Prince of this world" and humanity the servants to sin. But there would come a transition point when the age that was coming for the Hebrews 2:5 readers arrived. At this point, mankind would no longer be in subjection to angels anymore. This was what Hebrews 2:8 was anticipating soon to come for that generation. Things would change for mankind when Christ would slay that Dragon and the entire demonic realm would be destroyed. This Hebrews 2:8 verse was not speaking of Christ who didn't yet have all things put under him - it's mankind that this verse was referring to.

Jerryhuerta said:
There is never any monolithic thought in any school of eschatology, but by your own concession that the Revelation represents Christ’s mediation you contradict the preterist's interpretation of the Revelation. The consequence of Christ’s mediation on the Revelation is that temple must be interpreted under the New Covenant and not the Old; we are the temple in this age and under the New Covenant (1 Cor. 3:16; Eph. 2:19-22; 1 Peter 2:5). Texts such as Revelation 11:1-2 cannot pertain to the temple destroyed in AD 70, which is the preterist’s view.

I'm not sure how you get a contradiction out of this. Christ's role as our Great High Priest mediator became even more openly manifested to the world when He arranged for the dead, outdated, physical temple structure with its Levitical priesthood to be torn down in the AD 70 era. The decaying elements of the OC which had already died back in AD 33 and which had been set aside at His resurrection and ascension were given a "burial" of sorts in the AD 70 era. Mankind always seems to need a dramatic physical demonstration in order to get the point God is making. Yet this does not create a supposed "overlap", as many Preterist do mistakenly claim. The Revelation 11:1-2 text is most certainly describing the 42 months when the OC temple grounds were being trodden underfoot by the Zealots coming from their home turf in "Galilee of the Gentiles".

Jerryhuerta · May 23, 2022

3 Resurrections said:
This was speaking of mankind, who originally in the Garden of Eden had all the world put under their feet to have dominion over it (Genesis 1:28). This dominion over the created world was then abdicated when the original couple obeyed Satan's temptation. "His servants ye are to whom ye yield yourselves to obey". This action of the original couple made Satan the "Prince of this world" and humanity the servants to sin. But there would come a transition point when the age that was coming for the Hebrews 2:5 readers arrived. At this point, mankind would no longer be in subjection to angels anymore. This was what Hebrews 2:8 was anticipating soon to come for that generation. Things would change for mankind when Christ would slay that Dragon and the entire demonic realm would be destroyed. This Hebrews 2:8 verse was not speaking of Christ who didn't yet have all things put under him - it's mankind that this verse was referring to.

I'm not sure how you get a contradiction out of this. Christ's role as our Great High Priest mediator became even more openly manifested to the world when He arranged for the dead, outdated, physical temple structure with its Levitical priesthood to be torn down in the AD 70 era. The decaying elements of the OC which had already died back in AD 33 and which had been set aside at His resurrection and ascension were given a "burial" of sorts in the AD 70 era. Mankind always seems to need a dramatic physical demonstration in order to get the point God is making. Yet this does not create a supposed "overlap", as many Preterist do mistakenly claim. The Revelation 11:1-2 text is most certainly describing the 42 months when the OC temple grounds were being trodden underfoot by the Zealots coming from their home turf in "Galilee of the Gentiles".

It’s clear you failed to grasp my point on your assertions on the nature of the footstool and mine on pacification. Again, the tares are the servants of Satan according to the parable; they are his footstool and his object is to use them to wear out the saints (Daniel 7:25). This does not end “until” the tares are consumed and Satan is bound in the bottomless pit (Revelation 20:1-2). Only then will the saints enter into their inheritance, having “all in subjection under” them according to scripture. The Revelation supports the aforesaid.

But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. (Revelation 2:25-27)

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. (Revelation 3:21)

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever… And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. (Revelation 11:15, 18)

I posit you don’t know the meaning of “pacification.” It means to impose peace by force, if need be, and end war. At Christ’s ascension, he was seated at the right hand of his “Father’s throne” waiting “until” his enemies are made his footstool and “then” to come out of Zion! He leaves his seated location! He comes back to sit on his throne (Matthew 25:31) and then he pacifies his enemies, which is what ruling the nations with the rod of iron means. Christ is not on David’s throne now; David’s throne was on earth, never in heaven. There is no need to establish peace in heaven, which is the object of Christ’s reign.

As to the temple in Revelation 11:1-2, Herod’s temple was under the jurisdiction of the Aaronic mediation. Its destruction was due to the Old Covenant administration. That’s why preterists with greater credentials maintain that Revelation represents things done under the Old Covenant and that the mediations overlap. Nevertheless, Christ already predicted much of the circumstances in the Olivet Discourse, like “Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled” (Luke 21:24). Scripture can confirm that the “times of the Gentiles” is not a mere “forty and two months.” What is clear from a scriptural perspective is that Christ mediates in the heavenly sanctuary over a temple not built by hands and the temple in Revelation 11:1-2 falls under his mediation.

We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands. (Mark 14:58)

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