Does God's plan require evil?

Tellyontellyon

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Why, if Light requires Darkness, did God not infuse His Creation with it from the start?

But he created darkness before he created light.....

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day."
 
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aiki

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But he created darkness before he created light.....

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day."

I wasn't, in context, speaking of physical light and darkness:

"When God first created our World, there was no moral evil in it, none of the corruption of wickedness fouling the World with disease, violence, spiritual separation from Himself and our much-abbreviated life-spans. Why, if Light requires Darkness, did God not infuse His Creation with it from the start?"
 
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Hawkins

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Does God's plan require evil?

When you create anything, there will be by-products that require a QA/QC process to filter them out as a responsibility of the creator.

So the answer is a yes and no. God created entity beings with free will, while inevitably free will leads to evil because anyone is given a fair chance to be against God who is the only source of good.

Moreover, this is actually mathematical in terms of statistics and probabilities. If it's a real choice that entities can be against God, the mathematical expected outcome is that some will be against and others won't. The expected behavior of free will is more or less like the bell-shaped Normal Distribution. Law is to make a cut on this bell-shaped curve to define how many will be saved in the end. To humans, narrow is the gate. To angels then, 1/3 of them will follow Satan.
 
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Tellyontellyon

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I wasn't, in context, speaking of physical light and darkness:

I'm not sure genesis is necessarily speaking of physical light and darkness either, or not exclusively.
God created the light and saw that it was good.... In what sense good... moral goodness? And so what was the darkness then? Not good?
 
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aiki

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I'm not sure genesis is necessarily speaking of physical light and darkness either, or not exclusively.
God created the light and saw that it was good.... In what sense good... moral goodness? And so what was the darkness then? Not good?

Come now, this is just a way of escaping admitting you misunderstood me. The context of what you cited from Genesis is purely creative, the "goodness" of God's creative work being aesthetic and qualitative, like a well-painted portrait, or well-made house, not moral.
 
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TedT

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Does God's plan require evil?

Is not the heavenly state the culmination of all life? Is not the heavenly state characterized as the marriage of Christ and HIS Church: Revelation 19:6-7 “Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns! Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready” Is not the sexual union of married people symbolic of the spiritual unity with GOD of those married to GOD?

So: "Why were we made?"

We were made to have a full unity with GOD in a full communion of emotion (love) and communication (telepathy, like the angels enjoy) within all of created reality with GOD and everyone else within the marriage, for eternity.

All doctrine must flow from this revelation to us of HIS purpose.

A marriage that is forced is not a marriage but a rape.
A marriage that is built on tricking the bride into not understanding that she could say no is not a marriage at all but a fraud.

Therefore for HIS purpose for us to enter into the communion of a unity with us called marriage to be real, it must have been as a offered to us as a proposal of marriage which we had the right and understanding to accept or reject by our free will.

Those who accepted HIS proposal (and the attenuating promise of salvation if we should ever fall into sin) were chosen to be HIS bride, a promise of marriage called election.

Those who rejected HIS proposal of marriage immediately became enslaved to the addictive quality of evil with no chance of salvation as they were rejecting their only hope to be freed from their addiction, that is, they were condemned to banishment from all of created reality to the outer darkness from that second on.

No one was created as evil as HE had no reason or need for evil people in HIS purpose for finding a Bride. HE could not and would never marry an evil person. Those of you who know this to be true must redefine your theologies which mangle this truth to stay reconciled to itself. GOD is love and in HIM is no evil at all: a stream of life giving water cannot also give forth salty or stagnant water.

I champion GOD’s righteous holiness:
- GOD did not need evil to fulfill HIS plan and did not create evil for any reason.
- All evil is creature created by their true free will.

I champion Our Free will:
- All spirits created in the image of GOD were created with the ability to make true free will decisions and had an equal opportunity and ability to choose for HIM or against HIM.

Peace, Ted
 
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Tellyontellyon

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Come now, this is just a way of escaping admitting you misunderstood me
No it isn't, you misunderstood me. I'm not a Christian and I might not read your scriptures as you do. I'm also a psychotherapist, heavily into Jung, so I read these things with a symbolic nuance.
 
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aiki

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No it isn't, you misunderstood me. I'm not a Christian and I might not read your scriptures as you do. I'm also a psychotherapist, heavily into Jung, so I read these things with a symbolic nuance.

The Bible doesn't conform to our reading, Christian or not, Jungian or not. Now, you might want to layer some of your own stuff onto what the Bible says, but a natural, plain reading of the bit you cited from Genesis does not bear a reading of light, and darkness, and good in a moral sense.
 
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ByAnyOtherName

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So God created evil then... inevitably.

In this universe, we understand things by their distinction from other things. We know good by its distinction from evil. I don't know why this is the way the universe is arranged, but it is. God, the author of the universe, made it so; therefore because of His creation, evil, the absence of good, exists, although the absence of a thing can be argued not to exist at all. Does darkness exist, or is it just the absence of light?

In the beginning, God created the universe. Before the universe, there was nothing but darkness and the waters. I too enjoy the symbolic nuance of scripture, and believe that the waters may represent the Love of God for His creation. Therefore, before the Light, there was darkness, but there was also Love. He loved His creation, so He created it.
 
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Hi,
since we are discussing good and evil, what about technology, there is a lot of good and bad technology people rely on day to day, and my point here is, since Satan travels through the air and was cast down as lightening from heaven, my question is, who`s technology are we really using in the world? and did God intend for us to use it, or is it the results of man`s pride striving to be like God?, but good things have come from out of it.
Then this could also be God using what he knows to be evil, but using it for is good purpose?
let me know what you all think, because I find this idea an interesting concept of Gods working Glory in the World, and is the bad technology Satan trying to use what God as given to man, being corrupted by Satan.? when we invent technology that corrupts, notice I did not say Create, because only God has the power to create, we just invent and make stuff, that makes human life easier.
 
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timothyu

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did God intend for us to use it, or is it the results of man`s pride striving to be like God?
Stop and consider a man who we all assume to be a figurehead in this new digital tech even though he was more of a spokesperson for it with family money to back him. Mr Gates sees humans as self-replicating computers also (and may very well be) and he wishes to implement his own operating system over that of the one God already gave us.

What this means is solidifying the flesh as the authourity rather than the spirit by physically integrating the flesh with computer tech. Not only can all this be yours as the Tempter told Jesus but now all this can be you. Sound like a final hostile takeover from God? That is how this global government of Corporatism works. Here are a few quotes from his buddy and cohort, the founder of the WEF, Klaus Schwab...

* “Already, advances in neurotechnologies and biotechnologies are forcing us to question what it means to be human”.

** “Fourth Industrial Revolution technologies will not stop at becoming part of the physical world around us—they will become part of us. Indeed, some of us already feel that our smartphones have become an extension of ourselves. Today’s external devices—from wearable computers to virtual reality headsets—will almost certainly become implantable in our bodies and brains. Exoskeletons and prosthetics will increase our physical power, while advances in neurotechnology enhance our cognitive abilities. We will become better able to manipulate our own genes, and those of our children. These developments raise profound questions: Where do we draw the line between human and machine? What does it mean to be human?”

* “the ability of new technologies to literally become part of us” “curious mixes of digital-and-analog life that will redefine our very natures”

* “These technologies will operate within our own biology and change how we interface with the world. They are capable of crossing the boundaries of body and mind, enhancing our physical abilities, and even having a lasting impact on life itself “.

* “active implantable microchips that break the skin barrier of our bodies”, “smart tattoos”, “biological computing” and “custom-designed organisms”

* “sensors, memory switches and circuits can be encoded in common human gut bacteria”, “Smart Dust, arrays of full computers with antennas, each much smaller than a grain of sand, can now organize themselves inside the body”, “implanted devices will likely also help to communicate thoughts normally expressed verbally through a ‘built-in’ smartphone, and potentially unexpressed thoughts or moods by reading brain waves and other signals”

* “Synthetic biology” “the ability to customize organisms by writing DNA”.
 
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JohnEmmett

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So God created evil then…

“And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined.”

― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Silmarillion
 
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James_Lai

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Evil is absolutely necessary and was created by God because without evil there’s no cycle of life. Also without evil there’s no learning and the main purpose of this earthly life for us is to learn valuable lessons.
 
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