Florida man asks schools to ban Bible following the state's efforts to remove books

essentialsaltes said:

You know this? Can you name three?

Click to expand...

I don't need to name anyone. To pretend that all leftists are in agreement with you is absurd. They are not, and the capacity for banning books exists in any community, especially if the hostility is high enough.

essentialsaltes said:

I just said as much.

Click to expand...

How then do you determine what to include and what to exclude? You mention age as a factor, but is that the only factor?

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

Why shouldn't the bible be excluded if a community is deadest on not including it?

Click to expand...

I'm glad you have realized the point of the satirical letter in the OP. But part of the point of satire is to understand that it is not meant seriously. Although Swift wrote "A Modest Proposal", he was not actually in favor of eating children.

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

Well many here seem to think that it violates common decent standards by having things like incest, murder and other unsavory topics or themes. Why shouldn't the bible be excluded if a community is deadest on not including it?

Click to expand...

No, many here seem to think that the Bible violates conservative's common decency standards which it appears they apply only to other books.

essentialsaltes said:

I'm glad you have realized the point of the satirical letter in the OP. But part of the point of satire is to understand that it is not meant seriously. Although Swift wrote "A Modest Proposal", he was not actually in favor of eating children.

Click to expand...

I'm not referring to the letter in the OP. Why should a community which is dead set against the bible be forced to include it in their public school?

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

I don't need to name anyone. To pretend that all leftists are in agreement with you is absurd.

Click to expand...

You have not supported your position with any evidence at all.

How then do you determine what to include and what to exclude? You mention age as a factor, but is that the only factor?

Click to expand...

I already wrote how I thought these matters can be handled at the local school level: "There's no obvious objective way to determine this, so there can be discussions among librarians, school officials and parents about particular texts"

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

I'm not referring to the letter in the OP. Why should a community which is dead set against the bible be forced to include it in their public school?

Click to expand...

I’m sure that the good people of Atheistville can see the merits of having a Bible in the school’s library.

ottawak said:

No, many here seem to think that the Bible violates conservative's common decency standards which it appears they apply only to other books.

Click to expand...

What is the common decency idea of the conservative? Is it opposed to these themes intrinsically? As in you are not allowed to present them? Why do conservatives more than liberals advocate for the reading of the classics both Christian and Pagan?

It's only a particular type of person that criticism responds in order to knock down a strawman. All this demonstrates is that why the Conservative objects to is the content of certain books which they don't approve of. In as much as you might not approve of the content of right leaning works that explain the world differently.

Pommer said:

I’m sure that the good people of Atheistville can see the merits of having a Bible in the school’s library.

Click to expand...

Should they be forced to include it?

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

I'm not referring to the letter in the OP. Why should a community which is dead set against the bible be forced to include it in their public school?

Click to expand...

Forced? Nobody's talking about that. No, the question is about whether it should be banned. The Bible, as a text, is full of references valuable in understanding literature and phrases. If we don't want our children to have to look at literary allusions through a glass darkly, then having bibles in the library will help the scales fall from their eyes. I'm sure editions exist that are age appropriate.

essentialsaltes said:

You have not supported your position with any evidence at all.

Click to expand...

You have not been particularly convincing in your assurances that you know everyone on the left agrees with you.

essentialsaltes said:

I already wrote how I thought these matters can be handled at the local school level: "There's no obvious objective way to determine this, so there can be discussions among librarians, school officials and parents about particular texts"

Click to expand...

So it's up to local communities to determine what they will include and what they will exclude? Or do you want certain books to be included everywhere? Which standard do you have? A universal or local standard?

essentialsaltes said:

Forced? Nobody's talking about that. No, the question is about whether it should be banned. The Bible, as a text, is full of references valuable in understanding literature and phrases. If we don't want our children to have to look at literary allusions through a glass darkly, then having bibles in the library will help the scales fall from their eyes. I'm sure editions exist that are age appropriate.

Click to expand...

I'm asking the question as a thought excercise that people seem uncomfortable dealing with. Would you force the bible on a school unwilling to include it? Try actually answering the question.

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

You have not been particularly convincing in your assurances that you know everyone on the left agrees with you.

Click to expand...

Hey, it's your hypothesis. Either support it, or don't.

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

I'm asking the question as a thought excercise that people seem uncomfortable dealing with. Would you force the bible on a school unwilling to include it? Try actually answering the question.

Click to expand...

It's very easy to answer. No.

I am against book bans (that is, the topic of this thread). I am not for book forcing (the topic of nothing nobody ever suggested nowhere (except you)).

As I have remarked several times before, some people seem to have difficulty understanding that mandatory is not the opposite of forbidden. The opposite of both is allowed. Bibles are allowed in public schools. They are neither forbidden nor mandatory.

essentialsaltes said:

It's very easy to answer. No.

I am against book bans (that is, the topic of this thread). I am not for book forcing (the topic of nothing nobody ever suggested nowhere (except you)).

As I have remarked several times before, some people seem to have difficulty understanding that mandatory is not the opposite of forbidden. The opposite of both is allowed. Bibles are allowed in public schools. They are neither forbidden nor mandatory.

Click to expand...

If the answer is no, that you would not force the school which has rejected the bible to include the bible in their library you don't have any ground to stand on. Schools or in this case the state of Florida, is free to decide what is in it's libraries and what isn't. In as much as the community that doesn't want the bible in their public school.

In this case, do I understand the original OP letter to be a response to Ron Desantis and what he is doing in Florida regarding the removal of books from Florda's schools? He's allowed to have schools under his jurisdiction have the literature he wants and the literature he rejects he doesn't have to include in the curriculum.

If you disagree with him, democratically remove him from office.
Not really more to be said on this.

essentialsaltes said:

Hey, it's your hypothesis. Either support it, or don't.



It's very easy to answer. No.

I am against book bans (that is, the topic of this thread). I am not for book forcing (the topic of nothing nobody ever suggested nowhere (except you)).

As I have remarked several times before, some people seem to have difficulty understanding that mandatory is not the opposite of forbidden. The opposite of both is allowed. Bibles are allowed in public schools. They are neither forbidden nor mandatory.

Click to expand...

The Bible itself in school is generally never an issue. It's the particular theology that accompanies particular instances of its presence there which causes problems.

ottawak said:

The Bible itself in school is generally never an issue. It's the particular theology that accompanies particular instances of its presence there which causes problems.

Click to expand...

Is there any public school anywhere in the western world that even has a book on theology in it's library?

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

If the answer is no, that you would not force the school which has rejected the bible to include the bible in their library you don't have any ground to stand on.

Click to expand...

Sure I do. You correctly determined that my position is that "So it's up to local communities to determine what they will include and what they will exclude?"

Schools or in this case the state of Florida

Click to expand...

BZZZT. If a local school wants the Bible in its library, and Ron DeSantis wants to ban it...

I don't want to force the local school to have the Bible. The local school already has a Bible on the shelf. It's Ron DeSantis who is banning the Bible.

In as much as the community that doesn't want the bible in their public school.

Click to expand...

Ron DeSantis is not the community.

In this case, do I understand the original OP letter to be a response to Ron Desantis and what he is doing in Florida regarding the removal of books from Florda's schools? He's allowed to have schools under his jurisdiction have the literature he wants and the literature he rejects he doesn't have to include in the curriculum.

Click to expand...

Ron DeSantis is not the local community.

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

I could imagine there are some on the left that wouldn't mind Banning the Bible from public schools.

Do you believe every book should be available at a public school?

Click to expand...

All religious books. If I'd been the guy I'd have wanted to know why the Koran wasn't available in the library (assuming it wasn't). Don't they have Muslims in the school?

essentialsaltes said:

Sure I do. You correctly determined that my position is that "So it's up to local communities to determine what they will include and what they will exclude?"



BZZZT. If a local school wants the Bible in its library, and Ron DeSantis wants to ban it...

I don't want to force the local school to have the Bible. The local school already has a Bible on the shelf. It's Ron DeSantis who is banning the Bible.



Ron DeSantis is not the community.



Ron DeSantis is not the local community.

Click to expand...

He's the elected governor of the state with the authority to do what he's doing and he represents Florida. Do you concede that much? You might not like it, but that's your problem. Go get elected and replace him.

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

Is there any public school anywhere in the western world that even has a book on theology in it's library?

Click to expand...

Yes. Last time someone said there were no Bibles in their kid's school, I used the library online search to prove them wrong. By the same token, and the same search engine.

• Title
  The everything guide to Catholicism : a complete introduction to the beliefs, traditions, and tenets of the Catholic Church from past to present
  Author
  Gribble, Richard.
  Call number
  230 GRI
  Publisher
  Edition
  Pub date
  2011
  Holdings
  1 copy available at Pasco High School in On-Shelf

• • 3.

• • Keep
  • 
• Title
  The truth of Catholicism : ten controversies explored 1st ed.
  Author
  Weigel, George.
  Call number
  282 WEI
  Publisher
  Edition
  Pub date
  2001
  Holdings
  1 copy available at JWMitchell High School in On-Shelf

• • 4.
  • Keep
  • 
• Title
  St. Augustine in 90 minutes
  Author
  Strathern, Paul, 1940-
  Call number
  189 STR
  Publisher
  Edition
  Pub date
  1997
  Holdings
  1 copy available at Dr. John Long Middle School in On-Shelf

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

If the left can get control over Florida schools to implement this, then they should do it as an exercise of their values. It's up to Christians in Florida to resist and insist that the bible should be part of their children's education to some degree or another.

Click to expand...

It's the 'some degree or other' that has me concerned.