WWJD Did Jesus Pray to Mary?

timothyu said:

I'll betcha He asked her for things when He was a Kid.

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Yeah I’m sure it wasn’t like “Hail Mary full of grace can you make me some eggs & manna please? Amen”

timothyu said:

Because the ways of man train us we must bow to leaders. The idea of a pastor may be to lead a group in communal prayer, but not do the praying for them. They don't suddenly become a form of royalty.

Luke 14:11
For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

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Yes, leaders.. and that is what saints are viewed as. Pastors is still sought for intercession in prayer so why is that ok and not with people who have served God through out their lives here on earth?

Your reference of Luke is so irrelevant.

timothyu said:

I'll betcha He asked her for things when He was a Kid.

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Did Jesus the incarnation of God depend on Mary to ask things from? You might believe so. But believers in general do not need to believe it. It was God's purpose for God's incarnation to be here and it was certain for God's incarnation to be provided for the purposes for which he came.

FredVB said:

Did Jesus the incarnation of God depend on Mary to ask things from? You might believe so. But believers in general do not need to believe it. It was God's purpose for God's incarnation to be here and it was certain for God's incarnation to be provided for the purposes for which he came.

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I get the impression you think Jesus was born like Stewie from Family Guy.

Jaxxi said:

But that is what Jesus does, for no one can stand before the face of God except the Son, no? Mary was a sinner, and did not die a virgin. She has no special authority or power. When Jesus was dying I believe she stared at Him and wept. That was all she could do. I should be capable of doing that myself before the Lord, though I will be face down on His feet. I think that satan took every opportunity to play on our ignorance and he lied to various religions to weaken their prayers. If we are praying to the wrong people, or beings, we aren't very effective. He lied to the Jews, the Mormons, and look at all the Christian denominations who cannot agree. Jesus said to pray to the Father only.

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No, Jesus is not used to pray for us because he is God himself. We don't go to Jesus to have a better chance to sway the father. You are implying that the Father has greater authority on what the results of prayer are than the Son or Spirit. They are equal.

A good example of Mary being used for intercession is in the first miracle. Jesus denied the request from the couple at first, because "it was not his time", however he eventually did it because Mary eventually requested it on their behalf.

Mary was sinless. There is no way God would allow his Son to remain and get nurtured in a sinful womb for 9 months. He didn't even want the Arc of the Covenant to be touched by human hands because his Word made Stone was in it, you think he wouldn't care even more about a free sin environment when his Word made Flesh would be contained and biologically formed in there?

Jaxxi said:

But that is what Jesus does, for no one can stand before the face of God except the Son, no? Mary was a sinner, and did not die a virgin. She has no special authority or power. When Jesus was dying I believe she stared at Him and wept. That was all she could do. I should be capable of doing that myself before the Lord, though I will be face down on His feet. I think that satan took every opportunity to play on our ignorance and he lied to various religions to weaken their prayers. If we are praying to the wrong people, or beings, we aren't very effective. He lied to the Jews, the Mormons, and look at all the Christian denominations who cannot agree. Jesus said to pray to the Father only.

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James 5:16

Do you consider yourself to be righteous? I certainly don't consider myself to be, which is why I seek the prayers of those whom God has revealed to be righteous.

It is rather alarming and almost disheartening to see some Christians are unknowingly enforcing heresy and unable to understand how wrong and almost unchristian like it is to not have honorary views on Mary (example, post #486 with "possibly Mary"). Especially when the Bible has made it clear that Jesus made her the mother of all his followers (John 19:26).

They can't even see how diminishing her is indirectly diminishing Christ.

"She is not the mother of God but the mother of Jesus... saying MOG sounds as if she made God and is higher/older than God": if that is the case why wouldn't the "mother of Jesus" meet that same reason of objection, if you believe he is God? Doesn't that sound as if she made him, and is higher than him? If not why, is the name of Jesus is different and of lesser value/meaning than God?

"mary isn't sinless": so God loved 10 commandments more than his Son? He was more protective of it since the ark carrying/containing it could not be touched by sin, yet it's ok for his Son to be contained and nurtured in a sinful body of 9 months?

"Mary didn't ascend to heaven": So God loved Elijah more, apparently Elijah's work was more important than helping with the actual redemption of man, since he managed to go to heaven before Christ came?

"Mary had other children": So the love for Jesus wasn't enough for Mary and Joseph?

Cis.jd said:

It is rather alarming and almost disheartening to see some Christians are unknowingly enforcing heresy and unable to understand how wrong and almost unchristian like it is to not have honorary views on Mary (example, post #486 with "possibly Mary"). Especially when the Bible has made it clear that Jesus made her the mother of all his followers (John 19:26).

They can't even see how diminishing her is indirectly diminishing Christ.

"She is not the mother of God but the mother of Jesus... saying MOG sounds as if she made God and is higher/older than God": if that is the case why wouldn't the "mother of Jesus" meet that same reason of objection, if you believe he is God? Doesn't that sound as if she made him, and is higher than him? If not why, is the name of Jesus is different and of lesser value/meaning than God?

"mary isn't sinless": so God loved 10 commandments more than his Son? He was more protective of it since the ark carrying/containing it could not be touched by sin, yet it's ok for his Son to be contained and nurtured in a sinful body of 9 months?

"Mary didn't ascend to heaven": So God loved Elijah more, apparently Elijah's work was more important than helping with the actual redemption of man, since he managed to go to heaven before Christ came?

"Mary had other children": So the love for Jesus wasn't enough for Mary and Joseph?

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Amen! And the reason why the early church started saying mother of God is because of an early heresy that was claiming that Jesus wasn't God and was just a man. So they started saying mother of God to emphasize that Jesus is 100% God. And yes, saying she is the mother of Jesus literally means the same thing since Jesus is God.

And I believe if any of us had the power to have our biological mother who raised us not have to experience death, that we would spare her that in an instant! So why wouldn't Jesus want to spare His mom that?

And yes, Mary remained a virgin. Plus Joseph was like 90 years old when they married so that right there should tell people Mary didn't have other kids!

Rev 21:9And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

10And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Matthew 6:9-13
Luke 11:2-4

What are these verses supposed to be for?

Matthew 6
8 “Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him. 9 In this manner, therefore, pray:

Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

Luke 11
1 Now Jesus was praying in a certain place, and when he finished, one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray, as John taught his disciples.” 2 And he said to them, “When you pray, say:

“Father, hallowed be your name.
Your kingdom come.
3 Give us each day our daily bread,
4 and forgive us our sins,
for we ourselves forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
And lead us not into temptation.”

adderbolt said:

The Apostle John, the son of Zebedee, and he who Jesus loved. Do we love John? Do we pray to John?

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I venerate and ask for the intercession of St. John the Beloved Disciple, Evangelist, Apostle and Theologian, but I don’t worship him, nor do I worship the Blessed Virgin Mary, but I ask her intercession and venerate her to the fullest extent.. As I said in another thread on Marian intercession, just as we are privileged to develop a relationship with Christ, we can also develop a relationship with the Church Triumphant, the Saints who are Alive in Christ.

I have a devotion to a number of saints, especially martyrs like St. Ignatius of Antioch and St. Abanoub, and monastics like St. Anthony, who consecrated their lives to pray for people like me unceasingly in the desert, and also gallant Church Fathers like St. Athanasius, St. Gregory the Theologian, St. John Chrysostom, St. Cyril of Antioch, and St. Ephrem the Syrian, and many others, and to the Archangels and my guardian angel, and the rest of the Heavenly Host, the names of the Honorable Cherubim and Glorious Seraphim being unknown to me but my admiration for them being very great.

But the highest veneration is due to the Mother of God. To quote the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom:

It is truly meet to bless you, O Theotokos, ever-blessed and most pure, and the Mother of our God. More honorable than the Cherubim, and more glorious beyond compare than the Seraphim, without defilement you gave birth to God the Word. True Theotokos we magnify you!

And to quote the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil:

All of Creation rejoices in thee, O full of grace:
the angels in heaven and the race of men,
O sanctified temple and spiritual paradise,
the glory of virgins, of whom God was incarnate
and became a child, our God before the ages.
He made thy body into a throne,
and thy womb more spacious than the heavens.
All of creation rejoices in thee, O full of grace:
Glory be to thee.

But of course, only God, the Father, Son and Holy Ghost is worthy of worship and adoration. Indeed, our Lady tells us, the servants and handmaids of our Lord, her Divine Son: “Whatever He says to you, do it.”

The topic is WWJD? Did Jesus pray to His mother or any of His disciples, or any saint? No.

Did He pray to Moses, or any old testament prophets, or angels? No.
He did say however, 'when you pray, say, Our Father...' 'this then is how you should pray...'

Psalm 27 said:

The topic is WWJD? Did Jesus pray to His mother or any of His disciples, or any saint? No.

Did He pray to Moses, or any old testament prophets, or angels? No.
He did say however, 'when you pray, say, Our Father...' 'this then is how you should pray...'

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The reasoning is flawed.
Why would he instruct to pray to Mary and his disciples when they where all physically alive still?
Why would he say pray to Moses or xyz prophet, he didn't die on the cross yet therefore they weren't in heaven yet.

We see that when he was on the cross and yelled "Eli eli", people passing by thought he was calling to Elijah (the prophet written to be taken to heaven) which shows it was a common practice to invoke saints. The Bible has always advised christians to pray for each other, and it has also said that christians are able to attain eternal life after death, keyword: life, meaning they are still forever alive spirituality and still part of the church. Their service to God does not end after the physical death.