Exploring Universalism

wendykvw said:

Exactly. Sounds just like the father of lies, and likely soaks up the recognition.

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Yes the father of lies is the creator of the teachings of Universalism see Genesis 3:1-5; where he says to Eve we can disobey Gods' Word and not surely die. Sound familiar? Then there is the very words of Jesus here that says unbelievers do not see life. John 3:36.

LoveGodsWord said:

Universalism, is a false teaching

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It's more credible than seventh day adventism. According to its thinly shrouded theology everything other than sda is false teaching that sends people to hell.

And fwiw this thread isn't about trashing universalism, so how about sticking to the topic submitted in the OP?

MMXX said:

It's more credible than seventh day adventism.

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Prove it then? All I am hearing from you is your words that are not Gods' Word while I have only provided you with scripture which are Gods' Words not my words so it looks like your argument is with God not me dear friend.

LoveGodsWord said:

Prove it then? All I am hearing from you is your words that are not Gods' Word while I have only provided you with scripture which are Gods' Words not my words so it looks like your argument is with God not me dear friend.

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All I'm hearing is your words backed up by a cobled together montages of scripture excerpts to make the Bibe say what you want it to. And no one is likely to accept your challenge to do likewise in a fight fire with fire contest.

Like I said, according to what you and other SDAs post, everything outside of SDA theology is false teaching.

MMXX said:

All I'm hearing is your words backed up by a cobled together montages of scripture excerpts to make the Bibe say what you want it to. And no one is likely to accept your challenge to do likewise in a fight fire with fire contest.

Like I said, according to what you and other SDAs post, everything outside of SDA theology is false teaching.

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Well that is something you have been saying but you have never been able to prove so we might have to agree to disagree on your claims here. I do not think there is any reason we should not be friendly to each other here. At least that is not my intentions. We should be able to discuss the scriptures together as it is Gods' Word that is a light to our path and a lamp to our way. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. I will leave that between you and God. I do not think there is any reason to be unfriendly.

MMXX said:

"Exploring Universalism" is the title of this thread, the stated topic is:

wendykvw said: ↑
A question for those who are researching or who have converted to Universalism. What has helped you the most? Share any resources you have found helpful.

I'm sure you've been participating on forums long enough to know that you're supposed to address the body of the OP, rather than just going off its title. Those who just go off the title rather than what the OP is asking or saying, inevitably end up derailing the thread.

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Thank you. I am exploring Universalism from a scriptural perspective. If you do not want to participate you do not have to and you are free to believe whatever you want to as that would be between you and God not me and you.

MMXX said:

What it comes down to whether by EGW or an SDA is that if you don't obey the law of the fourth commandment and also don't to church on saturday, then you're not saved because you're in rebellious disobedience to God's word. None of them come right out and say that, and they deflect when asked directly, but I've read enough of their material to know that's what they're saying. Mainly through cobled together out of context scripture excerpts.

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It comes down to no such thing. I have only provided scripture that are in disagreement with Universalism providing a different perspective. Funny how when scripture is brought up people want to make it about something no one is even talking about though in order to avoid discussing what the bible says.

Another resource I found helpful is Steve Gregg's lecture on the three Christian views of hell. The first time I was introduced to this is when I met Steve in person for the first time at a home Bible study. I was pretty surprised that he was dismantling the majority view of hell, because he's usually pretty hardball when it comes to what the Bible says. Note that Steve isn't a universalist.

MMXX said:

Another resource I found helpful is Steve Gregg's lecture on the three Christian views of hell. The first time I was introduced to this is when I met Steve in person for the first time at a home Bible study. I was pretty surprised that he was dismantling the majority view of hell, because he's usually pretty hardball when it comes to what the Bible says. Note that Steve isn't a universalist.

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Well I do not believe in eternal burning Hell either. It is a false teaching handed down from the Roman Catholic Church. My disagreement with Universalism is the claims that the unrepentant wicked will all be saved. The bible does not teach this hence my reference back to the first lie told in Eden from Genesis 3:1-5.

LoveGodsWord said:

Yes I guess many people are not popular because they tell others the truth (Gods' Word). Look at all the prophets of the old testament who were persecuted and killed for sharing Gods' Word by all those who did not want to hear it? Look at Jesus who told everyone the truth. They crucified him.

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Thankfully it's not many, but actually a fringe minority. And pretty much every false teacher, preacher, expositor I've encountered says that to explain the vast amount of opposition from most Christians to whatever they're espousing. It's usually an automatic telltale and a red flag.

"I'm telling you the truth though God's Word and everything else you've been told is the traditions of men, that will put you on the broad path to hell. Only what I espouse is the truth that will get you though the narrow gate. Only a few Christians buy into what I'm espousing because many are called but few are chosen. What I'm espousing is rejected by most Christians for the same reason Jesus and the Prophets were rejected".

I know the whole litany quite well by now. Sorry I left out the usual verse hyperlinks, but there's only so much effort I'm willing to waste on this. Plus I don't like using the Bible that way.

LoveGodsWord said:

Someone who is very drunk is on their way home but being so drunk they cross a railway track and in the process of doing so lie down on the railway track in their drunken state and fall asleep. Another person is also on their way home heading in the same direction. They see the drunken person sleeping on the railway track knowing a train is coming past their location in 10 mins. They try to wake the drunk person up but all the drunk person wants to do is sleep on the railway track. Now is it love of not love to let that person continue sleeping on the railway track... My view is that if we love someone we will try and help them by telling them the truth

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You are assuming that you know the truth of the other guy's life better than he does which is almost certainly false. You may perceive him as drunk and sleeping on a a railway track while he knows that he is sober and sleeping in a comfy bed having pleasant dreams about a God who shows mercy to all. He's not going to be too happy you come along uninvited and drag him out bed because you think he'd be happier sleeping in a, what he would think, was a dumpster.

It's belief in ECT that brings about this anxiety that you have to save everyone for their own good. It was the motivation behind things like the Spanish Inquisition. Crazy as it sounds, they thought they were doing the best thing for people they tortured and killed because they were trying to save them from an even worse fate that awaited them in hell if they didn't repent and believe in the "right way" before they died. It sounds crazy. because ECT is crazy.

The ironic thing is is that ECT is not even a core belief. It's not mentioned in the Nicene creed at all, which only talks about the ressurection of the dead. So we should live and let live in this issue. I regard ECT as an absurd notion and the only reason I take an interest in it is because most people I know are secular and ECT is only of the main reasons they reject Christianity from the outset because of it, and I've read a few testimonies online where people described the trauma they experienced from having been indoctrinated in it and believing the eternal fate of everyone who was drunk and sleeping on rail tracks (everyone outside of their particular church) was dependent on them. A heavy burden to carry but as Jesus said, His burden is light.

MMXX said:

Thankfully it's not many, but actually a fringe minority. And pretty much every false teacher, preacher, expositor

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Agreed. They said the same things about Jesus and all the Apostles by the religious teachers who persecuted them in their day for simply sharing the Words of God that they did not believe or want to hear, as did they to the prophets before them. Yet go figure, Jesus says to us all "the many are called but only a few are chosen" yet those who do not believe God's Word say, no, the many are called and chosen. Sound familiar? According to the scriptures it is normally the many that do not want to hear the Words of God that seek to silence the few who share Gods Word as they did Steven as he was looking up into Heaven seeing Jesus and saying father forgive them for they know not what they do just before they stoned him because they no longer wanted to hear the Words of God. Our opinions do no really mean much in God's eye as only Gods' words are true and we should believe and follow them *John 17:17; Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29. According to Jesus it is the Words of God we accept or reject that become out judge come judgement day in John 12:47-48. I hope only the best for you dear friend. As posted in the previous page, I am out for now so don't bother replying.

Take Care.