Science and the Bible

2PhiloVoid said:

He brought up the line of study between History and Memory in his discussion about the textual problems which various scholars think exist (or don't exist) within the text of Exodus.

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I got my chance to expound. Now it's your turn. What issues did your prof discuss?

durangodawood said:

Whats a good example of injecting the Bible into science?

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The creation account in Genesis 1 is probably the biggest example.

AV1611VET said:

I doubt it.

Using the Bible as a source of science is like using Bill Gate's diary as a computer manual.

But when the right time came, God empowered someone (gift of knowledge) to make the discoveries necessary to make our lives better.

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

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That seems like a sensible way to approach the issue.

durangodawood said:

Whats a good example of injecting the Bible into science?

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I didn't do a good job replying and probably misled you. My apologies. Seeing the responses you've gotten to this question, I should clarify and say I meant more that injecting religious faith into science can be done in a productive manner, but rarely is.

BNR32FAN said:

The creation account in Genesis 1 is probably the biggest example.

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Hmm. We may have crossed wires. I thought by "good" examples you were talking about ones where the Bible leads to correct scientific knowledge.

For sure Genesis is the prime example of where people try to derive material world knowledge from the Bible.

J_B_ said:

I got my chance to expound. Now it's your turn. What issues did your prof discuss?

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I was just reading a book where Christopher B. Ansberry was referring to some works by scholars, Ronald Hendel, Jan Assmann and Rodney Livingstone.

In that reference, Ansberry briefly mentioned where attention to cultural memory exhibited in the writings of the text affects the way we might understand 'how' the biblical author(s) "remembered and redescribed" the historical moments that meant a lot to them or were central in their thought. Basically, it was short and sweet.

AV1611VET said:

Electronic Communication:

Job 38:35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are?

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Lightning bolts are not "electronic communication". Even for a god, sending messages (of anger one would presume) by lightning strikes is rather crude and easily misunderstood. Needs more check bits.

AV1611VET said:

Water Currents:

Psalm 8:8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.

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Did God write Logan's Run?

AV1611VET said:

Entropy:

Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

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That's not entropy. You wouldn't know a canonical ensemble if one hit you in the face.

Three pitches, three strikes: 0-3. You're out.

J_B_ said:

I didn't do a good job replying and probably misled you. My apologies. Seeing the responses you've gotten to this question, I should clarify and say I meant more that injecting religious faith into science can be done in a productive manner, but rarely is.

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Also, the book I was reading wasn't for a class. It was for my own personal edification. My university days as a student ended 12 years ago; but my learning has moved on and expanded since then.

AV1611VET said:

Lightning bolts?

No.

You're purposely trying to fail the point.

Do you know what causes lightning, and what it has in common with electronic communication?

(There's a strong hint. )

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What do you think "electronic communication" is?

(Are you just stuck in the presence of a word in something again? Your linguistic essentialism is silly.)

AV1611VET said:

Born-again scientists have given us:

• Antiseptic Surgery
• Bacteriology
• Calculus
• Celestial Mechanics
• Chemistry
• Comparative Anatomy
• Computer Science
• Dimensional Analysis
• Dynamics
• Electrodynamics
• Electromagnetics
• Electronics
• Energetics
• Entomology of Living Insects
• Field Theory
• Fluid Mechanics
• Galactic Astronomy
• Gas Dynamics
• Genetics
• Glacial Geology
• Gynecology
• Hydraulics
• Hydrography
• Hydrostatics
• Ichthyology
• Isotopic Chemistry
• Model Analysis
• Natural History
• Non-Euclidean Geometry
• Oceanography
• Optical Mineralogy
• Paleontology
• Pathology
• Physical Astronomy
• Reversible Thermodynamics
• Statistical Thermodynamics
• Stratigraphy
• Systematic Biology
• Thermodynamics
• Thermokinetics
• Vertebrate Paleontology

As well as:

• Absolute Temperature Scale
• Actuarial Tables
• Barometer
• Biogenesis Law
• Calculating Machine
• Chloroform
• Classification System
• Double Stars
• Electric Generator
• Electric Motor
• Ephemeris Tables
• Fermentation Control
• Galvanometer
• Global Star Catalog
• Inert Gases
• Kaleidoscope
• Law of Gravity
• Mine Safety Lamp
• Pasteurization
• Reflecting Telescope
• Scientific Method
• Self-Induction
• Telegraph
• Thermionic Valve
• Trans-Atlantic Cable
• Vaccination and Immunization

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Yes, Lots of Christian scientists are selective about which parts of the Bible should be interpreted literally, and which parts mythologically.

Others are good at mental compartmentalization.

2PhiloVoid said:

I was just reading a book where Christopher B. Ansberry was referring to some works by scholars, Ronald Hendel, Jan Assmann and Rodney Livingstone.

In that reference, Ansberry briefly mentioned where attention to cultural memory exhibited in the writings of the text affects the way we might understand 'how' the biblical author(s) "remembered and redescribed" the historical moments that meant a lot to them or were central in their thought. Basically, it was short and sweet.

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I'm not familiar with those authors, but it does remind me of a case we studied. A medieval monk once recorded memories of seeing a dragon during a pilgrimage. It's a typical modern American reaction to say, "Oh, yeah, people believed in that junk back then," but the fact of the matter is that most people didn't believe such things. The monk was the subject of ridicule among his colleagues for including the event in the chronicle he maintained. As a result, he wrote a little treatise on historiography where he stated that he understood dragons aren't supposed to be real and no one was going to believe him. But, he asked, what was the better way to record history? To omit it because no one would believe it? To explain it away as religious euphoria? Or to be honest with respect to his memories of the pilgrimage and let people interpret it according to their beliefs?

durangodawood said:

Yes, Lots of Christian scientists are selective about which parts of the Bible should be interpreted literally, and which parts mythologically.

Others are good at mental compartmentalization.

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And some of us are good at recognizing gaslighting, too.

AV1611VET said:

Would you know it, if He didn't?

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Does he have an IMDB page to back this up? (I know he has a twitter account.)

AV1611VET said:

Really? I disagree.

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And this is based on you extensive knowledge of thermodynamics and statistical mechanics? Please demonstrate.

2PhiloVoid said:

And some of us are good at recognizing gaslighting, too.

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AV's not gaslighting, he's flailing. It's his pattern when he injects himself into what he does not understand and his "contributions" are brushed casually aside.

AV1611VET said:

Born-again scientists have given us:

• Antiseptic Surgery
• Bacteriology
• Calculus
• Celestial Mechanics
• Chemistry
• Comparative Anatomy
• Computer Science
• Dimensional Analysis
• Dynamics
• Electrodynamics
• Electromagnetics
• Electronics
• Energetics
• Entomology of Living Insects
• Field Theory
• Fluid Mechanics
• Galactic Astronomy
• Gas Dynamics
• Genetics
• Glacial Geology
• Gynecology
• Hydraulics
• Hydrography
• Hydrostatics
• Ichthyology
• Isotopic Chemistry
• Model Analysis
• Natural History
• Non-Euclidean Geometry
• Oceanography
• Optical Mineralogy
• Paleontology
• Pathology
• Physical Astronomy
• Reversible Thermodynamics
• Statistical Thermodynamics
• Stratigraphy
• Systematic Biology
• Thermodynamics
• Thermokinetics
• Vertebrate Paleontology

As well as:

• Absolute Temperature Scale
• Actuarial Tables
• Barometer
• Biogenesis Law
• Calculating Machine
• Chloroform
• Classification System
• Double Stars
• Electric Generator
• Electric Motor
• Ephemeris Tables
• Fermentation Control
• Galvanometer
• Global Star Catalog
• Inert Gases
• Kaleidoscope
• Law of Gravity
• Mine Safety Lamp
• Pasteurization
• Reflecting Telescope
• Scientific Method
• Self-Induction
• Telegraph
• Thermionic Valve
• Trans-Atlantic Cable
• Vaccination and Immunization

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Not even closs. I don't know where you got that list, but I can see several inventions on it by persons that I know right off the top of my head were not born-again Christians.

2PhiloVoid said:

Also, the book I was reading wasn't for a class. It was for my own personal edification. My university days as a student ended 12 years ago; but my learning has moved on and expanded since then.

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Me too. My original intent was to push all the way to a PhD so I'd have something to do when I "retired" from engineering. I'm not the kind of guy who wants to play golf and eat lunch at the club. That kinda thing is fun occasionally, but I also love learning about the world.

But I never made it. My M.A. is as far as I got. Family stuff. Also, in full disclosure, I had a crisis of confidence in history ... well, that's a long story.

AV1611VET said:

Born-again scientists have given us:

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What's a "Born-again scientist"?

Is that someone who's fallen away from science and then had a "come to Galileo" moment and returned to the scientific fold?