Russia Preparing for War.

JulieB67 · Apr 15, 2022

Jamdoc said:
We are getting a bit off track here though.

I know. I often find myself doing that quite a bit in some threads. Bad habit of mine.

eclipsenow · Apr 15, 2022

JulieB67 said:
It's my belief that they did know about the trumps. Christ was the first to teach that he would return with a trump, and he lays out the signs in Matthew 24 as we know.

Matthew 24:31 "And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Interesting - the trumpet here appears to be a heavenly announcement to move forward into the world with the gospel, as 'angels' can also mean messengers.

So they know already that angels will be sounding trumpets.

I don't think they knew John was going to wrap time up in his Matryoshka dolls of recurring 7's inside each other. It seems that John specifically put them inside each other so we wouldn't read them as consecutive but concurrent. They're not a timeline through future history, but a waltz around certain themes.

HUMAN HISTORY: THE 1000 YEARS between Jesus Ascension and his Return on Judgement Day:-
Seven seals depicting TYRANNY (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven trumpets depicting CHAOS in nature (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven signs depicting PERSECUTION (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven plagues depicting DESTRUCTION.
These episodes are *concurrent*, not consecutive.

I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"

To the Cortinthians he even includes it's the last trump,

I Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

I've always taken these 2 to be talking about the same thing - the return of the Lord. There is no reason to insert another trumpet.

Oseas · Apr 15, 2022

eclipsenow said:
Sure - except I wasn't talking about fake Christians I was talking about real Christians.

As I've told you many times before - don't patronise me.
I'm a Christian.
Of course I also work with the Word of God - and believe the Word IS GOD - understand?

I'm not beating the air - I'm reading the bible - I work with the Word of God - the WORD OF GOD UNDERSTAND?

How are you sure yours isn't?
I work with the Word of God - the WORD OF GOD UNDERSTAND?

I work with the Word of God - the WORD OF GOD UNDERSTAND?

I'm your brother in Christ and you speak to me like this?

So you KEEP asserting - so you KEEP patronising.
But I also work with the Word of God - the WORD OF GOD UNDERSTAND?

So you KEEP asserting - so you KEEP patronising.
But I also work with the Word of God - the WORD OF GOD UNDERSTAND?

Yup. Only Christians are allowed in this forum - so we'd agree.
The bible is important - it's the final authority in everything spiritual.
Jesus is the Word of God - and we understand.

What you don't seem to understand is that...
All Christians who are truly Christian are saved and are therefore, by definition, ready! DO YOU UNDERSTAND!?

The witness of God is greater. What prevails is the Word of GOD. There are three that bear record in this heavenly place in Chirst as is written in Ephesians 1:v.3:
1- The Father, GOD the Father
2 - The Word, the Word made flesh - JESUS
3 - The Holy Spirit (who is not a ghost as is written in English language, but a Person):

And these three Persons are One.

Yeah, the witness of GOD is greater. Your thinking is good for nothing, it is from a human perspective, a stumblingblock, not from God's perspective.

Oseas · Apr 15, 2022

JulieB67 said:
Sadly many Christians won't be ready despite the warnings to do so. Many will fall away and that's what Christ is talking about with the Matthew 7 scriptures as well as the parable of the Foolish Virgins. They are Christians- they themselves are waiting on the Bridgroom. Only problem is the Fake Christ arrives first and many just waiting on Christ will fall away thinking the first is the true Christ. That's why Christ says we must not be harvested out of season. And that he comes at an hour most do not expect. We are to wait on the true Christ and be harvested at the 7th trump and not before then. Falling away is apostasy, departing from the truth. And if that happens that proves they weren't ready. Falling away/Apostasy can only happen to Christians because the unsaved have nothing to fall away from.

It would be great if all Christians will be prepared but going by Christ's teachings I don't believe that will be the case.

TRUE.

eclipsenow · Apr 15, 2022

Oseas said:
TYour thinking is good for nothing, it is from a human perspective, a stumblingblock, not from God's perspective.

If you want me to take you seriously, you've got to explain which verses I am reading wrong - and where you think you are reading more accurately. Not just tell me off and bible bash me because you're obviously so vastly superior to me (which is how your posts sound.) Try explaining where I'm wrong, not psychoanalysing WHY I'm wrong. That's a logical fallacy called a Bulverism which the great CS Lewis describes:-

Lewis wrote about this in a 1941 essay,[2][3] which was later expanded and published in 1944 in The Socratic Digest under the title "Bulverism".[4][3] This was reprinted both in Undeceptions and the more recent anthology God in the Dock in 1970. He explains the origin of this term:[5]

You must show that a man is wrong before you start explaining why he is wrong. The modern method is to assume without discussion that he is wrong and then distract his attention from this (the only real issue) by busily explaining how he became so silly. In the course of the last fifteen years I have found this vice so common that I have had to invent a name for it. I call it "Bulverism". Some day I am going to write the biography of its imaginary inventor, Ezekiel Bulver, whose destiny was determined at the age of five when he heard his mother say to his father—who had been maintaining that two sides of a triangle were together greater than a third—"Oh you say that because you are a man." "At that moment", E. Bulver assures us, "there flashed across my opening mind the great truth that refutation is no necessary part of argument. Assume that your opponent is wrong, and explain his error, and the world will be at your feet. Attempt to prove that he is wrong or (worse still) try to find out whether he is wrong or right, and the national dynamism of our age will thrust you to the wall." That is how Bulver became one of the makers of the Twentieth Century.

Suppose I think, after doing my accounts, that I have a large balance at the bank. And suppose you want to find out whether this belief of mine is "wishful thinking." You can never come to any conclusion by examining my psychological condition. Your only chance of finding out is to sit down and work through the sum yourself. When you have checked my figures, then, and then only, will you know whether I have that balance or not. If you find my arithmetic correct, then no amount of vapouring about my psychological condition can be anything but a waste of time. If you find my arithmetic wrong, then it may be relevant to explain psychologically how I came to be so bad at my arithmetic, and the doctrine of the concealed wish will become relevant—but only after you have yourself done the sum and discovered me to be wrong on purely arithmetical grounds. It is the same with all thinking and all systems of thought. If you try to find out which are tainted by speculating about the wishes of the thinkers, you are merely making a fool of yourself. You must first find out on purely logical grounds which of them do, in fact, break down as arguments. Afterwards, if you like, go on and discover the psychological causes of the error.

— C. S. Lewis, Bulverism
Bulverism - Wikipedia

Oseas · Apr 15, 2022

Jamdoc said:
Still disagree that Paul was referring to something from a book that wouldn't be written for decades, not when he was communicating to a church who'd have no idea what he was talking about.

What they would know of is Matthew 24, and the feast of Trumpets. A call to convocation, not a call of judgement.
Because the 6th seal, the event talked about in Matthew 24, is prior to the 7 trumpets.

Paul the Apostle had the Spirit of Christ and many GOD's gifts. The testimony of Christ JESUS is the spirit of prophecy, understand?

Oseas · Apr 15, 2022

Jamdoc said:
Because the 6th seal, the event talked about in Matthew 24, is prior to the 7 trumpets.

Not the whole Matthew 24 is prior to the 7 trumpets, What really is prior to the 7 trumpets are the events described from the verse 4 to the verse 14.

Revelation 11:v. 15 to 18
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
18 And the nations were (will be)angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

Get ready

Jeffwhosoever · Apr 15, 2022

It sure seems like Russia is putting the world at risk of WW3. Putin has threatened to put nuclear weapons in the Baltics if Sweden and Finland join NATO, which seems more likely than not, and now the US is considering naming Russia a state sponsor of terror, with grave economic consequences well beyond what we see now already. Prayers for both the Ukrainians and the good people among the Russians, who were forced into this fight against their will. The Kremlin has all but closed off any news except their state news, but I'm not sure how effective they can be with the internet.

eclipsenow · Apr 15, 2022

Oseas said:
Paul the Apostle had the Spirit of Christ and many GOD's gifts. The testimony of Christ JESUS is the spirit of prophecy, understand?

Not really. Just asserting unrelated and random biblical facts does not make a clear argument. So no - I don't understand - not even a fraction of what you say. No matter how many times you ask "Understand?" or how big you make the font. Christ Jesus is the third person of the Godhead, NOT the 'spirit of prophecy'. Christ Jesus is the Messiah Saviour, the suffering servant king who dies in our place. Understand? Not some force to channel to try and divine the future!

Try stating what it is you think will happen when in simple English - without even quoting bible verses or making big red fonts. Do it in a few short paragraphs. Right now I just want to know what you think eschatology is.

Oseas · Apr 15, 2022

Jeffwhosoever said:
It sure seems like Russia is putting the world at risk of WW3. Putin has threatened to put nuclear weapons in the Baltics if Sweden and Finland join NATO, which seems more likely than not, and now the US is considering naming Russia a state sponsor of terror, with grave economic consequences well beyond what we see now already. Prayers for both the Ukrainians and the good people among the Russians, who were forced into this fight against their will. The Kremlin has all but closed off any news except their state news, but I'm not sure how effective they can be with the internet.

What does the Word of GOD say?

The Word of GOD says that : Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows-Matthew 24:v.7-8.

Based in the above LITERAL Scripture, how can there be WW3? Never. But how will be or is the process the most High and Almighty GOD will use to fulfill LITERALLY His above Word? This event we will see from now on.
And upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea (peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues)and the waves(generations) roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. Luke 21:v.25-26

Get ready

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Praised be GOD

Amen. Hallelujaaaah!!!

Homeowner · Apr 16, 2022

Jeffwhosoever said:
Putin has threatened to put nuclear weapons in the Baltics if Sweden and Finland join NATO, which seems more likely than not,

Russia already has nukes in Kaliningrad exclave. There is literally nothing rational that Russia can do to prevent Finland and Sweden joining NATO. They don't even have capacity to pacify eastern Ukraine.

Threatening with nukes certainly isn't going to help.

Russia already has nuclear weapons in the Baltic region, says Lithuania

JulieB67 · Apr 16, 2022

eclipsenow said:
I've always taken these 2 to be talking about the same thing - the return of the Lord. There is no reason to insert another trumpet.

It is the same thing, that's the point and it is the same trump not another. We know from Revelation ourselves that it's talking about the 7th trump (last trump, farthest out) and I believe they knew as well. As I said, my belief.

Jamdoc · Apr 16, 2022

Oseas said:
Paul the Apostle had the Spirit of Christ and many GOD's gifts. The testimony of Christ JESUS is the spirit of prophecy, understand?

That's not the issue.
The issue is he was writing a letter to the Corinthians.
They would have to wait for decades for Paul's letter to make sense if that's truly what he meant.

Not to mention, the Holy Spirit works by pointing you back to scripture. progressive revelation constantly refers back to previous scripture. Not just things pulled out of thin air.

Also, of note, Corinthians refers to Jesus as our passover sacrifice (in chapter 5), and feast of unleavened bread, and refers to Christ as the firstfruits in chapter 15, a reference to the feast of firstfruits. What would first come to mind therefore, were I a first century member of the Church of Corinth, is not some book that wouldn't be written for decades about 7 trumpet judgements.... but rather the feast of trumpets, because that's what I'd have been taught.. the old testament and the gospel of Jesus Christ. I wouldn't have Paul's other epistles, or the epistles of John or Peter or James or Jude, much less Revelation.

I'd have the Old Testament which would teach me about the feasts of the Lord including the feast of trumpets.. and perhaps a Gospel account with the Olivet Discourse.

eclipsenow · Apr 16, 2022

Well, as an Amil, I think the whole series of 7's are looking at the same period of history but about different themes. Not a forward march through the future, but a waltz around certain themes.

HUMAN HISTORY: THE 1000 YEARS between Jesus Ascension and his Return on Judgement Day:-
Seven seals depicting TYRANNY (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven trumpets depicting CHAOS in nature (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven signs depicting PERSECUTION (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven plagues depicting DESTRUCTION.
These episodes are *concurrent*, not consecutive.

IF you think it's a timetable, what do you think actually happens in the verses below?

REVELATION 11:

15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”

16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying:

“We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.
18 The nations were angry,
and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,
both great and small—
and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”

19 Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a severe hailstorm.

Jamdoc · Apr 16, 2022

funny how things happen to come up at just the right time...
Re: the last trumpet

eclipsenow · Apr 16, 2022

Revelation has the 3 cycles of 7. Note how one cycle emerges out of the last event in the previous cycle. Each cycle ends with Judgement Day, meaning these sequences of 7 (symbolic of God's perfect number of judgements) cover between Jesus Resurrection and his Return. The sequences don't end neatly, with the last thing in each 7 happening neatly. Rather, the next sequences emerges out of and part of the previous sequence. For example, note how in Revelation 8 the action of the Seventh Seal doesn't happen until after we get introduced to the next Seven - the Trumpets.

EG: "8 When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them."
Then the action of the Seventh Seal happens and the censer is poured and it sounds an awful lot like the beginnings of Judgement Day.

Again - these sequences emerge out of each other - they're not linear, but congruent - happening alongside each other and describing the same period.

Note how the 7 trumpets are similar to the plagues in Exodus. And just like Pharaoh in Egypt, the subject of this text - the nations - do not repent. This is important - the punchline is coming!

But then we see these important symbols of the temple - where the inside is measured (which is symbolic of its protection and safety - see Zechariah 2) and the outside isn't measured. Then the outside is trampled! What does this mean? The temple is God's people. 1 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 3:6, 1 Peter 2:4-5). While our true self is secure in Christ - the outside of us (our bodies) might get trampled and destroyed. As the Bible Project says - this 'external defeat' (outside of the temple being destroyed) 'cannot take away our victory in the Lamb.' The idea is repeated in the two witnesses which are also called two lampstands which we saw earlier in Revelation was the 7 churches. That these two witnesses / lampstands are the church is shown in that Rome (the monster) kills them, but then they are raised and vindicated and - here comes the punchline - people DO REPENT!

Conclusion: The trumpets are awful natural disasters warning us that this world is not right with God and not OK. They themselves however will not lead people to repent. We must do our job in these tough times and share the gospel - or they have no hope of repenting.

It's good to see this is now over 5 million views.

Jeffwhosoever · Apr 16, 2022

Oseas said:
What does the Word of GOD say?

The Word of GOD says that : Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows-Matthew 24:v.7-8.

Based in the above LITERAL Scripture, how can there be WW3? Never. But how will be or is the process the most High and Almighty GOD will use to fulfill LITERALLY His above Word? This event we will see from now on.
And upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea (peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues)and the waves(generations) roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. Luke 21:v.25-26

Get ready

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Praised be GOD

Amen. Hallelujaaaah!!!

Easily. WW3 = Armageddeon. See Hal Lindsey's works.

Jamdoc · Apr 23, 2022

Turkish air space closed to planes carrying troops from Russia to Syria, broadcaster reports

Some allies, right?
First they closed the Bosphorus to Russian warships, now closing off their airspace to Russian troop transports to Syria.

Turkey and Russia don't seem as such great allies anymore do they?
Sorry Russian Gog promoters...

eclipsenow · Apr 23, 2022

Jamdoc said:
Turkish air space closed to planes carrying troops from Russia to Syria, broadcaster reports

Some allies, right?
First they closed the Bosphorus to Russian warships, now closing off their airspace to Russian troop transports to Syria.

Turkey and Russia don't seem as such great allies anymore do they?
Sorry Russian Gog promoters...

Especially given Gog is a metaphor for all God's enemies - even in its original use in Ezekiel.
I've keyframed it to the relevant section.

The whole business of asking "Who is Gog today?" misses the point.

Jamdoc · May 7, 2022

and another blow to the theory...

Russia is withdrawing troops from Syria and redeploying them to Ukraine
that sounds like the opposite of the "hook in the jaw" theory that has Russia moving from Ukraine and redeploying to take Israel

Amid war in Ukraine, Russia withdraws and Iran expands in Syria - Syria Direct

The other takeaway from this is that Iran is taking over where Russia is withdrawing in Syria. So there is more danger to Israel in the region... it's just coming from Iran, not Russia.

Russia Preparing for War.

Well-Known Member

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Faithful Servant & Seminary Student

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Watching and Praying Always

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

Watching and Praying Always

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

Faithful Servant & Seminary Student

Watching and Praying Always

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

Watching and Praying Always

Similar threads