Why do we study eschatology

Douggg said:

Why do we study eschatology?

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So the Holy Spirit can connect the dots when it unfolds [John 14:26].

Douggg said:

please post what is your reason for studying eschatology.

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Personally, for the absolute peace it gives me from seeing God bring things to pass in the exact time frame in which He promised to perform them. This is polar opposite to the effect that my former pre-mill Disp. training gave to me as a child.

I remember one Christmas season when I was a young kid my mother left me alone in a locked car parked in front of the Sears front door while she shopped....for several long, long hours. (Yep, parents could do that back then without getting arrested.) It got to be so long that I was certain that the rapture had occurred and I had been "left behind" to endure the Great Tribulation coming up. I panicked, dreading that I had no way to get home, and no parents waiting on me, even if I did get there. I knew she had left some gospel tracts in the glove box, so I frantically read through them again, trying to see if I had said the wrong words when I prayed to be saved years before. I never told her when she finally finished shopping and got back to the car. Sheer torture for a young kid. And totally unnecessary, since the Great Tribulation is past history, and the rapture Paul wrote about has been greatly misinterpreted.

As a young teen, I used to read books like Larkins' on "The spirit world", or "Holy War" and "The Children's Pilgrim's Progress" by Bunyan, and I became fascinated with the subject. Too much fascinated, because it leaked into my dreams and I began to have nightmares about the Devil. My mom in her way tried to reassure me by quoting, "Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world". If I had only known then what I know now - that the entire Satanic realm was completely destroyed back in AD 70 - all that teenaged angst and terror concerning a dead foe could have been avoided.

So, again, the main reason for my studying eschatology is for the peace that God gives concerning the future.

Douggg said:

The answer for me is in this one verse...

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

please post what is your reason for studying eschatology.

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Just so I know what the signs are when they happen, if they happen in my lifetime.

I don't anymore. Too pie in the sky for me and just more to argue about.

Eschatology tells us about the days we now live in and we need to know how to live in these difficult days and not to be effected by these things of this world as we seek to live lives that matter before Him. Also it is good to see for ourselves that God is still on the throne, as He has already told us what to expect in these days. He is still our God!

So I can sound intelligent and win arguments on forums?

RaymondG said:

So I can sound intelligent and win arguments on forums?

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If that's what you what! It's not necessarily a bad thing. Sounding inteligent and being inteligent are not necessarily the same thing!

3 Resurrections said:

Personally, for the absolute peace it gives me from seeing God bring things to pass in the exact time frame in which He promised to perform them. This is polar opposite to the effect that my former pre-mill Disp. training gave to me as a child.

I remember one Christmas season when I was a young kid my mother left me alone in a locked car parked in front of the Sears front door while she shopped....for several long, long hours. (Yep, parents could do that back then without getting arrested.) It got to be so long that I was certain that the rapture had occurred and I had been "left behind" to endure the Great Tribulation coming up. I panicked, dreading that I had no way to get home, and no parents waiting on me, even if I did get there. I knew she had left some gospel tracts in the glove box, so I frantically read through them again, trying to see if I had said the wrong words when I prayed to be saved years before. I never told her when she finally finished shopping and got back to the car. Sheer torture for a young kid. And totally unnecessary, since the Great Tribulation is past history, and the rapture Paul wrote about has been greatly misinterpreted.

As a young teen, I used to read books like Larkins' on "The spirit world", or "Holy War" and "The Children's Pilgrim's Progress" by Bunyan, and I became fascinated with the subject. Too much fascinated, because it leaked into my dreams and I began to have nightmares about the Devil. My mom in her way tried to reassure me by quoting, "Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world". If I had only known then what I know now - that the entire Satanic realm was completely destroyed back in AD 70 - all that teenaged angst and terror concerning a dead foe could have been avoided.

So, again, the main reason for my studying eschatology is for the peace that God gives concerning the future.

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Hi I am a futurist and literalist and would disagree with your 70 AD scenario being the fulfillment of all these things. I do agree that our peace is settled in Christ not in weather or not Revelation was fulfilled in 70 AD. You have an opinion that is challenged by many and so your faith if based on an opinion of the facts and not necessarily the facts. Its a bit like the rapture where the futurist cannot be proven right or wrong until it happens and there are different opinions on weather this is before or at the end of the tribulation. So if my peace is in Christ it is not standing on an opinion of the rapture or not and say the anitchrist is revealed and we see the abomination of desolation occur I would have to admit my opinion was wrong and then my peace would be tested as to weather it was in Christ or in the idea of the rapture.
As a futurist I can debate strongly the case for a global scope of these events that culminate in the 2nd coming of Jesus and the fact Israel is back and the preparations for the 3rd temple are all made is evidence that the abomination of desolation is going to occur in that 3rd temple. There are a great many non Christian economists and Historians and political analyzers who see global conditions of hyperinflation, social unrest, war and famine coming as they look at the effects of the war in Ukraine. The harvests are going to be lower as the fertilizers are not being shipped and many fields unplanted. The dollar is under direct attack and the death of the dollar will collapse the word fiat money system. These things are on the radar of many and would indeed result in the rev 6 scenario. The world economic forum is openly promoting the build back better idea and this idea is not a seamless transition to a global NWO but a collapse of the current one and establishment of the new.
The group has the full support of the USA, Canada, France, England, and down the line and many of the leaders are trained by the World Economic Forum. The UN earth charter was written by Gorbachov. The western leaders are signed on to the principals of this charter. The final world government is seen rising and its values contradict all biblical values. The spiritual kingdom and entering it through the gospel was brought in when Jesus brought the new covenant in. The kingdom of God with Jesus ruling on Davids throne and destroying principalities and powers and establishing righteousness in the earth is clearly not accomplished. When Jesus reigns there will be no 100 minions of abortions or wars, or learning of wars and peace and justice and judgment from that time on are assured. The thing that is difficult for those who believe 70 AD is the fulfillment is that in ZEch 14 and Rev the kingdom comes when Israel is saved from their enemies by the coming of the LORD and not destroyed.

Brian Mcnamee said:

The thing that is difficult for those who believe 70 AD is the fulfillment is that in ZEch 14 and Rev the kingdom comes when Israel is saved from their enemies by the coming of the LORD and not destroyed.

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Not difficult at all. Zechariah is a favorite prophet of mine. To read him is to read of a fulfilled AD 70 siege of Judah and Jerusalem, and the resulting manifestation of the unshaken kingdom of God. The New Jerusalem survived that shaking process which Hebrews 12 said was "NOW" coming in those days. Zechariah also gives encouraging proof of the ending of the unclean spirits which "pass out of the land" at that same time (in Zechariah 13:2).

Zechariah 14:4-5 in the LXX also describes how the Valley would be blocked up at far as Azal at Christ's coming. That would be an earthquake breaking apart the top of the Mount of Olives and resulting in rubble sliding downhill, filling up the Kidron Valley as far as Azal (the Wadi Yasul on today's maps, just past the southeast corner of Jerusalem). Archaeological analysis today confirms this happened.

Zechariah 14:16-19 also gives us an indication of the time of year the next future resurrection will take place - during the time when the Feast of Tabernacles would have ordinarily been celebrated under Mosaic law.

Zechariah describes Old physical Jerusalem's temple with its dead priesthood system being torn down to the last stone. New Jerusalem as the "Israel of God" where we are called "kings and priests" under our Great High Priest was saved and delivered from that decaying system and is in place today.

Your listing of current disastrous world affairs is also consistent with the scripture pattern I see of the 7 millennial ages of this world's history. We are currently passing through the turbulent transition phase leading to the 7th millennium, and these upheavals of finances, warfare, political corruption, etc. is part of the process. While it is sobering to see so much carnage and corruption, it does not unsettle my peace about God's plans for this period. His kingdom's growth is promised and WILL prevail in spite of everything.

Hi I appreciate you delving into Zech 14 as most of those who hold your position run from it. The outcome of Zech 14 is the LORD comes when Jerusalem is being overrun and he kills the invaders not the inhabitants.
11 The people shall dwell in it;
And no longer shall there be utter destruction,
But Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
This is a single day as the evening and morning are describes as well in this passage. The Mount of Olives splitting produces a river that flows year round which shows a literal river which is mentioned in Eze 47 48 as flowing into the Dead Sea which is healed and to become a prosperous fishing area. This has the specific detail that the salted flat areas will not be healed at that time. This is to happen at the time the 12 tribes receive their inheritance in the land of the Canaan that was promised by the LORD to Abraham. The LORD is now king over the earth and the nations which are left must now come and worship the King and keep the feast of tabernacles or they get no rain. This again shows that the nations are defeated and some nations will no longer exist on this day as Israel is saved and not totally wiped out. Furthermore when this earthquake hits it creates a path of escape for those in Jerusalem at that very time;
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You,
This scenario of the day of vengeance in Isaiah 61 tells the same story and the distinction between Jew and Gentile is maintained in that day. Rev Armageddon shows the nations defeated and this is the same time the angels proclaim the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of the LORD and HIs Christ and He shall reign forever and ever. The book of Revelation also has the nations coming to worship the LORD too Rev 15 Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify your name? For you alone are holy. All nations will come and worship you, for your righteous acts have been revealed.

The exegesis of Zech 14 shows the literal nature of this passage when taken as a whole. You have the wrong side winning in 70 AD. Think of Luke one and Jesus mission. If you read the prophecy by Zacharias you see that the deliverance promised there is accomplished with the 2nd coming of Zech 14 being literal and future.

67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying:
68 “Blessed is the Lord God of Israel,
For He has visited and redeemed His people,
69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us
In the house of His servant David,
70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets,
Who have been since the world began,
71 That we should be saved from our enemies
And from the hand of all who hate us,
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers
And to remember His holy covenant,
73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham:
74 To grant us that we,
Being delivered from the hand of our enemies,
Might serve Him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life.

Brian Mcnamee said:

The exegesis of Zech 14 shows the literal nature of this passage when taken as a whole. You have the wrong side winning in 70 AD

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Not sure what you mean by "the wrong side". God is presented as winning the battle in the siege against Judah and Jerusalem. He did this by destroying all the competing Zealot armies fighting against each other and their own people inside Jerusalem. At the end, starvation was so rapid and intense that the flesh of those who had been fighting each other inside Jerusalem in civil war was consumed away while they stood on their feet. (A slight exaggeration for the sake of hyperbole - but not by very much, when we read of the rapid, mass starvation in Jerusalem during the last five months of the siege). God also wins the battle by making all the unclean spirits to "pass out of the land" (Zechariah 13:2).

You are using a different translation for Zechariah 14:4-5. I prefer the literal translations, and especially the LXX, which reads quite differently; it doesn't have anybody "fleeing" to Azal through a newly opened valley. In the LXX, the Kidron Valley was to be "blocked up as far as Azal", at Christ's return, by the resulting earthquake rubble sliding downhill to fill the Kidron Valley below. Today in the Kidron Valley, there is a depth of 40' or so of earthquake rubble that archaeologists have dated to around the AD 70 time period. Today the Kidron Valley is much more shallow than it was in Christ's days, and about 70' further away from Jerusalem's eastern wall than before. Sounds like Zechariah 14:4-5 knew what was coming.

The plague of "no rain" in Zechariah 14 is not literal, because the threat of "no rain" in Egypt mentioned in this context would be meaningless for a country with virtually zero rainfall anyway. The symbolism of rain in the OT has been equated with God "raining righteousness" on the people in a blessing from above (Hosea 10:12, Isaiah 45:8).

Likewise for the symbolism of the "river" coming from Jerusalem and going in two directions - toward the Gentile nations across the Mediterranean, as well as toward eastern lands surrounding the Jews' homeland. Christ referred to this Zechariah 14 prophesied blessing of "living water" when He said that, "as the scripture hath said", it would flow out of the bellies of those having the Spirit of God within (both believing Jews and believing Gentiles - John 7:38-39). This was a blessing that originated from the early church being founded by the Apostles in Jerusalem to begin with, and which spread out from there to also include Gentile lands. That river of "living water" continues to flow today.

Douggg said:

please post what is your reason for studying eschatology.

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2 Timothy 4:8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

Matthew 24:33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.

Douggg said:

please post what is your reason for studying eschatology.

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For me eschatology is something that requires analytical skill. I enjoy thinking about the different views and how they can or cannot be correct.

In Luke 2:29 Mary kept all these things and pondered them in her heart and Revelation 22:7 says blessed is he that keep the sayings of this book. In Philippians 4:8 we are told to think on things that are true, honest, just, pure, lovely, of good report, and if there be any virtue and praise.

I personally don’t find fear or uncertainty for believers in eschatology even though I don’t fully understand it, rather I find those things in Philippians 4:8.