Book Bannings

Archivist

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Nothing is wrong with having Harry Potter there in my opinion. But if a majority of any group decided they didn't want it in an institution they control, why does my will get to dictate to them what I might prefer? This is a hypothetical, not a real scenario, but the point is to get across that localities should be able to decide for themselves what materials they want in the schools or institutions they are in control of.

I see no general principal why any group as to admit material it thinks is detrimental.

You are again confusing collection development with banning. If the book meets the criteria of the collection development policy and it was purchased and added to the collection, what is the purpose of removing it? Simply to keep a vocal minority happy?
 
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Maybe I'm spoiled by our local library ...
Public libraries can be magical places. I recently visited Carnegie Library number 13. Beautiful, and yes it has a ghost.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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You are again confusing collection development with banning. If the book meets the criteria of the collection development policy and it was purchased and added to the collection, what is the purpose of removing it? Simply to keep a vocal minority happy?
If a locality wants to ban a certain book from it's venues nothing changes in my assessment. They have every right to ban it or to remove it, or whatever. If this is a question of vocal minorities, almost all the most vocal parties are minorities. The minority that wins out gets what it wants.

Now, unless you want to force the group you disagree with to add material you like, what is your position here? Is it simply an objection to what they are doing but you'll let them do it? Or do you want state intervention to force your view on a certain locality?
 
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Margaret3110

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Public libraries can be magical places. I recently visited Carnegie Library number 13. Beautiful, and yes it has a ghost.

I love libraries. I take my son to ours multiple times a week. Everyone should have access to an excellent public library.
 
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If a locality wants to ban a certain book from it's venues nothing changes in my assessment. They have every right to ban it or to remove it, or whatever. If this is a question of vocal minorities, almost all the most vocal parties are minorities. The minority that wins out gets what it wants.

Now, unless you want to force the group you disagree with to add material you like, what is your position here? Is it simply an objection to what they are doing but you'll let them do it? Or do you want state intervention to force your view on a certain locality?

If it were me I would contact the ACLU and take the matter to court so long as the material met the collection development policy. And you keep going back to adding material. We are not talking about collection development here. I don’t know why you can’t figure that out.
 
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Archivist

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I love libraries. I take my son to ours multiple times a week. Everyone should have access to an excellent public library.
Agreed. Have you ever read Dewey the Library Cat? I highly recommend it!
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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If it were me I would contact the ACLU and take the matter to court so long as the material met the collection development policy. And you keep going back to adding material. We are not talking about collection development here. I don’t know why you can’t figure that out.
I don't know why you don't see the connection here. A library which refuses to add a book for whatever reason or takes a book out of it, for whatever reason, is doing the same thing. They are limiting the reach of said book for whatever particular reason they have. What I would like to be made clear is if you think an outside authority should force the local authority to have the material you deem necessary.

Is that your view? To me I don't see a difference between refusing to add a book and removing a book because you disagree with it. It's the same thing in effect.
 
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I don't know why you don't see the connection here. A library which refuses to add a book for whatever reason or takes a book out of it, for whatever reason, is doing the same thing. They are limiting the reach of said book for whatever particular reason they have.

Again, you are confusing collection development with removing purchased books from the collection.

What I would like to be made clear is if you think an outside authority should force the local authority to have the material you deem necessary.

I already answered this.

Is that your view? To me I don't see a difference between refusing to add a book and removing a book because you disagree with it. It's the same thing in effect.

One is collection development, the other is removing an already-held item from the collection. I don’t know why you can’t figure that out.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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Again, you are confusing collection development with removing purchased books from the collection.

There is no difference. Both have the same effect.

One is collection development, the other is removing an already-held item from the collection. I don’t know why you can’t figure that out.

And if they want to get rid of it, they can. Just because it's in a collection doesn't make it sacred.

But you haven't answered my previous question. Not directly. Would you force libraries or schools or whatever, to have materials you approve of which they have rejected?
 
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There is no difference. Both have the same effect.

I’m not going to explain it to you again.

And if they want to get rid of it, they can. Just because it's in a collection doesn't make it sacred.

Sad that you believe in censorship.

But you haven't answered my previous question. Not directly. Would you force libraries or schools or whatever, to have materials you approve of which they have rejected?


I did answer your question directly. What about “I would contact the ACLU and let them take the matter to court” don’t you understand?
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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Sad that you believe in censorship.
It's not that I believe it, as in it's an absolute belief like my belief in Christianity. I just recognize the necessity of it and that it is impossible to escape censorship completely. To do so is to cease to have standards and then you must allow any and all material to be present everywhere. That's a libertine view which I cannot endorse. Neither can you i suspect, but I won't pretend my view offers perfect liberty. It offers liberty to communities to regulate themselves and not from someone like you.

If you don't allow for communities to set the limits on their own conduct, the material they have or their way of life, then you view it as necessary to determine for them what they ought to do.

I did answer your question directly. What about “I would contact the ACLU and let them take the matter to court” don’t you understand?

So you would seek to compel others to abide by your will? What gives you that authority?
 
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SamanthaAnastasia

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But they don't want the book there and you are insisting they keep it there. Why do they have to have it? What are you willing to do if they are insistent on getting rid of it or not accepting other books you want in the school library?
Because it’s FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
ITS MUH FIRST AMEDMENT RIGHTS all y’all like to screech about.
At least in the US. You’re from New Zealand so it’s like what section 14 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990?
 
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SamanthaAnastasia

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It's not that I believe it, as in it's an absolute belief like my belief in Christianity. I just recognize the necessity of it and that it is impossible to escape censorship completely. To do so is to cease to have standards and then you must allow any and all material to be present everywhere. That's a libertine view which I cannot endorse. Neither can you i suspect, but I won't pretend my view offers perfect liberty. It offers liberty to communities to regulate themselves and not from someone like you.

If you don't allow for communities to set the limits on their own conduct, the material they have or their way of life, then you view it as necessary to determine for them what they ought to do.



So you would seek to compel others to abide by your will? What gives you that authority?
Oh man. It’s not WE the Librarians or Archivists, my man who have that authority.
We are the guardians of freedom of speech and expression no matter how little we agree or disagree with it.
People REQUEST books. We purchase them.
But see, it is up to THE INDIVIDUAL to regulate THEMSELVES.
How are you ANY BETTER than ISIS, honestly?
 
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SamanthaAnastasia

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If it were me I would contact the ACLU and take the matter to court so long as the material met the collection development policy. And you keep going back to adding material. We are not talking about collection development here. I don’t know why you can’t figure that out.
Remember, Archivist that he’s from New Zealand. Idk how libraries are run there…you might have more info than me.
But he prob isn’t familiar with the US library system.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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Oh man. It’s not WE the Librarians or Archivists, my man who have that authority.
We are the guardians of freedom of speech and expression no matter how little we agree or disagree with it.
People REQUEST books. We purchase them.
But see, it is up to THE INDIVIDUAL to regulate THEMSELVES.
How are you ANY BETTER than ISIS, honestly?

Is freedom to force others to do things they don't want to do? Is it freedom to seek to influence others in a certain direction via forcing them in institutions they have control of to provide what you want but what they don't want? Why does every community have to obey your standard? Why does every library have to provide the books you want?

You want to say I'm no better than ISIS, as if they're the only ones in history who have maintained strict control on their communities. Christianity, for most of it's existence prior to the United States and the enlightenment limited both access and the reception of information in society (this can be a shock to Americans). Not even just Christians, but Jewish communities in their own ghettos did this as well and there were harsh punishments for any who violated the rules. So if you want to condemn me, or anyone else who would seek to allow people to regulate themselves how they see fit, you ought judge the entire Christian tradition. No, rather judge everyone before modernity.

Complete individualism is the antithesis of Christianity and to any civilization as a whole. Christianity has never been a religion which put the rights of the individual ahead of the Church. But my position is this, let localities decide what books they want or do not want. You don't need an overarching authority to decide for them.

Because it’s FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
ITS MUH FIRST AMEDMENT RIGHTS all y’all like to screech about.
At least in the US. You’re from New Zealand so it’s like what section 14 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990?

I don't screech about the first amendment. To me the constitution is not a sacred document which can't be doubted. As for freedom of speech in NZ, we're not allowed complete freedom of speech. There are certain books you aren't allowed to own or legally distribute in NZ either. You'll get arrested for having the Christchurch shooter's manifesto on your person.
 
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