Can this disprove christianity?

Albion · Mar 19, 2022

Believing in Christ is not an act of charity or mercy (a "good work").

Matt5 · Mar 20, 2022

Let's imagine two scenarios:

The wise and good atheist takes care of a local forest. Being good, if there is a forest fire then he always puts it out. And he keeps doing that - putting out fires. The forest grows and grows. Then after 80 years a fire comes along. This time the atheist can't put it out. The entire forest is wiped out and burns down to the ground. There is nothing left.

There is an evil Christian who takes care of a local forest. Being evil, he only puts out a few of the fires. Many of the fires he lets burn. Then after 80 years a fire comes along. He lets this one burn too. No big deal because the forest wasn't overgrown due to all those small fires. The fire soon burned itself out. Not much to report here.

Sketcher · Mar 20, 2022

No, that doesn't challenge any of Christianity's central claims. And according to Christianity, that wouldn't solve your sin problem either.

Paul Rhys · Mar 21, 2022

timf · Mar 21, 2022

Your question is predicated on the assumption that "doing good" is the measure of all things.

The nation of Israel was selected and given the law. Paul writes in Romans chapter sever of his difficulty in keeping the law. He also writers in Galatians that the law was a schoolmaster to show us that the law could not be kept and that people would need Christ.

The Pharisees thought they had achieved perfection in "doing good" (keeping the law). They just deceived themselves.

Well meaning social activists thought giving money to poor people would be "doing good". Unfortunately creating dependency destroys lives.

When you look into it, God's way is better. Each individual is invited to trust in Jesus and receive the Holy Spirit whose work can make each person better.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Hawkins · Mar 21, 2022

The big picture is, Christians' job is to preach the gospel to all nations. All other earthly things are minor.
Earth is not a place for Christians, Christians' priority is always for the Kingdom of God among us. If we stand still there doing nothing, then the earth will worry about itself. If however Christians standstill there not doing their job, all mankind will descend to hell, which is eternal.

In your opinion, which one should have the priority. To make the earth a better place, or to save humans from hell? We are told not to love the earth more than the Kingdom of God.

Sir Joseph · Mar 27, 2022

Morehumble, your question has been adequately answered in many ways by the others here, but since you pursued the same question a second time, it apparently hasn't clicked for you. Let me try a different approach.

The truth of one religion over any other is based upon a preponderance of evidence, not the actions of its followers.

The secular evidence for God that any open minded atheist should respect is firmly established by scientific laws that necessitate a supernatural creator over any naturalistic, evolutionary processes - with the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics, law of biogenesis, and laws of information being foremost. These laws favor the Biblical creation account of Genesis despite people's misguided beliefs in evolution. Such truth or evidential reality is not determined by people's actions.

The evidence for Christianity and the Bible surpasses all other world religions, being based upon historical, archaeological, scientific insight, prophetic, manuscript authority, textual criticism, and other indirect analyses. Such truth or evidential reality is not determined by people's actions.

Many people misjudge or reject Christianity based upon their negative perceptions or experiences with individuals or churches, but that is an irrational approach to seeking truth in a matter. Do we deny the existence or legitimacy of certain items when they don't work right? Do we reject driving because of other drunk drivers? Should we accept truth based upon perception rather than reality? I'd suggest not.

Morehumble, your point is a valid concern to discuss some day, but don't let it be the basis for seeking truth in religious matters. I encourage you to investigate the Christian faith's foundational evidence, regardless of the good and bad people representing it. There are amazingly dedicated, loving Mormons doing good in the world while shameful Christians demonstrate unloving hypocrisy and heresy. Even so, one religion has a solid foundation of evidential truth and the other doesn't.

ldonjohn · Mar 27, 2022

Let's say that you continue to post questions on Christian websites similar to the question that is the subject of your original post for years to come. You continue to ask questions that in some way make you feel better about your contempt for Christians & their God. You continue to ask questions that help to relieve any fear you might have about the possibility that you just might be wrong in your unbelief. You continue to ask question that twist Truth into your flawed imagine of Christianity.
Then at the end of life you are standing in front of God, and He is the One asking the questions. What will you say then?
God's Word says if you will seek Him with all your heart you will find Him. You would be wise to look for answers in His Word, now while you can.
Life is short, but eternity is a long time! Think about it.

John

Uber Genius · Mar 28, 2022

Where does "Good" come from?

You must define the good before you tell someone to go do it.

If you were Hitler engaging the SS in 1939, the good might be herding people into Polish ghettos, later it might be hurting them into gas chambers!

If God doesn't exist then objective moral values and duties don't exist. All "the good" would amount to is whatever the population voted was "the good," or subjective duties.

Your very appeal for atheists to do more " good" certainly isn't referring to a subjective good but rather an objective (without reference to subjects) good!

On atheism, you would have to argue the good just exists platonically. But since abstract objects like the concept of the good have no causal capability how could that concept produce any good? This is an old argument that is over 2000 years old.

Your worldview commits you to certain concomitant truth claims: there is no good, no evil, no right or wrong, no meaning to life, no basis for thought or rationality (bye bye science as neuroscience denies dualism leaving physicalist there is no room to say truth of premises and construction of argument led to my belief. Instead the atheist must affirm they belief based on physiology and precursor causal forces acting on brain states.

The atheist fan club always gets a little smaller once the members actually read the fine print.

2PhiloVoid · Mar 28, 2022

...look who showed up after....how long?

It's nice to know you're still alive and kick'n, Uber!

Uber Genius · Mar 28, 2022

Good to see you my friend.

I'm a gentleman horse farmer in Kentucky these days. Just raising hunter jumpers and caring for 17 acres nestled between a 800 acre lake and a 325 acre state park.

2PhiloVoid · Mar 28, 2022

Well, I guess you've been staying busy then! Glad you're back.

Uber Genius · Mar 28, 2022

Let's catch-up in conversations (look in you alerts).

James_Lai · Apr 4, 2022

Belief is rarely true belief, as I observe. Especially in modern-day Christianity. Lip service, hypocrisy, yes. External religiosity, yes. Belief? Not really.

So if you have no belief but have strong convictions (a form of faith that is), whatever they are, and do a 1000 good deeds, then you demonstrate that you walk the talk while the religious folks don’t.

renniks · Apr 4, 2022

No, because all good done outside of doing it for Christ isn't considered good in Christianity.
And no, Christians should not be just sitting there waiting for Jesus to come back, they should be doing good through the power of the Holy Spirit, but it's not those deeds that save them. A moral pagan is still a pagan.

Soyeong · Apr 4, 2022

Christianity is not about waiting around for Jesus, but about being made to be like him. In other words, it is more about getting heaven into is than about getting us into heaven. Yes, a belief that makes someone passive is flawed, but that is not what the Bible teaches us.

Doing good can have different motivation, so just because someone is doing good does not necessarily mean that they are doing what Christianity teaches. For example, someone can do good because they want to look pious in the eyes of others or because they want something in return.

Uber Genius · Apr 7, 2022

So perhaps we need to examine this idea a little more closely. No belief I assume is no official commitment to God or attendance in some organized religion. But one doesn't act with conviction on atheism. So if one literal has no belief in God, the resulting worldview must delete objective moral values and duties. Objective good and evil disappear as well. So what is the basis of "strong conviction to live a certain way."

Do we have immaterial souls that originate and contain thoughts and convictions? Not on atheism!

Do we have free will which enables us to act on our soulish convictions? Not on atheism! Dawkins, Dennett,
Hitchens, Harris, Krause, Atkins, all agree that on atheism, human free will is just a function of biology, physics acting on precursor brain states.

On no belief, we lose our ability to love one another in a selfless way (because it requires thought and objective moral values eliminated by atheism, it requires free will eliminated by atheism).

So when we talk about hypocrisy, that is to say, living in a way that is inconsistent with one's core beliefs, the non-believer has a real problem the minute they start to live the so-called "life of conviction," described in the post.

Of course, hypocrisy is a universal problem.

We see doctors who are hypocrites but no one argues that we should therefore give up on medicine.

We have lawyers who are hypocrites but no one argues that we should therefore give up on the law.

Police who commit crimes,

Politicians who use their power to benefit their sons and brother

I heard of a socialist who had his wife create a media company to run ads so that they could become rich capitalists all the while complaining about capitalism (shoot there is an entire political party committed to this approach lately), yet no one suggests we should get rid of politics.

Why does anyone accept that hypocrisy in Christianity therefore means one should reject Christianity?

Paul Rhys · Apr 10, 2022

"Many will come after me in my name and deceive many, but by their fruit you will recognize them"
"A good tree does not bear bad fruit nor does a bad tree bear good fruit"

Sophrosyne · Apr 10, 2022

First off, why would atheists do "good" in the first place unless it profits them or perhaps they want to fit in societies that are based upon Christian principles where doing good is a goal. There are some atheists like those who follow Antoine LeVay that only do good when it profits them and can justify great evil if the rewards outweigh the risks greatly.

Second, the Bible itself is where we are taught how to "be a Christian" and failing to fall short of what we are supposed to be like doesn't make us an ideal Christian at all nor a good example for anyone to follow.

Third I believe even atheists in their heart know that God exists and those whose conscience have not been suppressed desire to please God (or fear him unknowingly) and do good thinking subconsciously that there may be a heaven and God there and hoping their deeds can buy favor with God.

Fourth in Christianity doing good without faith in God pretty much makes the effort...... worthless to God. So in effect the stumbling "less good" deeds a Christian does in faith are accounted for MORE to them than the great good deeds of atheists do.... with no faith in God whatsoever. In other words knowing the rules for doing good why would an atheist want to do more good than Christians knowing they get little to no credit at all for their works.

Finally Christians are all works in progress, just because someone identifies as a Christian doesn't mean suddenly they are a better person than they were before when they didn't identify as one we must grow and learn how to walk in the Lord and as we do a desire to do more good arises as we work out or shortcomings that cause us to trip and stumble and are able to focus more on helping others than trying to get ourselves in order.

There will always be some people who aren't auto mechanics, carpenters, teachers, almost any profession that actually excel at tasks beyond the average professional, but until they consider going into that profession it doesn't mean much because their focus is mostly somewhere else. I would love for these atheists to become saved and
be rewarded for theirs good works. If they work on a car for someone getting credit for doing so by God would be a good thing rather than God saying that it was nice as they are banished from heaven forever and the list of their work all burn up and are forgotten forever as those who profited from them that are in heaven cannot thank them.

Can this disprove christianity?

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