THE EVANGELICAL CHURCH IS BREAKING APART Christians must reclaim Jesus from his church

Opdrey · Mar 26, 2022

Aldebaran said:
I was addressing the idea that Christians should vote for those who have political values that align most closely to Christian values--but not because new laws they could create would somehow remove sin from someone's heart through legislation.

They should definitely vote their conscience. If their conscience says that they need more guns for themselves and more money and that the poor should be denigrated for their poverty then they should definitely vote Republican. But if that is their conscience then I question what part of it has any bearing on Christianity?

ottawak · Mar 26, 2022

Aldebaran said:
I'm very much in a position to speak for myself. Anyone who doesn't agree with me is welcome to say so, but it won't cause me to withdraw my own views.

But you overreach yourself when you declare your own views to be "Christian values" because you do not speak for all Christians.

Rachel20 · Mar 26, 2022

Opdrey said:
They should definitely vote their conscience. If their conscience says that they need more guns for themselves and more money and that the poor should be denigrated for their poverty then they should definitely vote Republican. But if that is their conscience then I question what part of it has any bearing on Christianity?

But the poor are hurting more now than ever, with inflation, gas prices, coming food shortages. And that is when the left is in power. Should I listen to words and party platforms, or judge by their fruit, as Christ said?

Aldebaran · Mar 26, 2022

Opdrey said:
They should definitely vote their conscience. If their conscience says that they need more guns for themselves and more money and that the poor should be denigrated for their poverty then they should definitely vote Republican. But if that is their conscience then I question what part of it has any bearing on Christianity?

Your hostility toward the Republican party and those who agree with most of the things they stand for is noted, as are your interesting spins on the issues.

Aldebaran · Mar 26, 2022

ottawak said:
But you overreach yourself when you declare your own views to be "Christian values" because you do not speak for all Christians.

Nor do I need to.

Opdrey · Mar 26, 2022

Rachel20 said:
But the poor are hurting more now than ever, with inflation, gas prices, coming food shortages. And that is when the left is in power.

Facile point. Are you unaware of how global markets work? Russia is a major exporter of oil to many countries. As such when Russia INVADED A SOVEREIGN COUNTRY and the rest of the world froze them out of markets it had an impact on gas prices here at home! Not because we import a lot of oil from Russia ourselves (we don't), but because global markets are much more complex than that.

The inflation also comes after 2 years of economic lockdown. You may have heard about the global pandemic that has killed nearly a million Americans in 2 year, right? Economists tell us it is quite common for a market that has been depressed because of people being out of the market bouncing back with inflation and higher prices when the market opens up again.

Your point is made of oversimplification of much bigger, more complex topics.

Meanwhile the Left ALWAYS votes for better social safety nets and equitable access to things like healthcare. While the Right ALWAYS votes against those things.

ottawak · Mar 26, 2022

Rachel20 said:
But the poor are hurting more now than ever, with inflation, gas prices, coming food shortages. And that is when the left is in power. Should I listen to words and party platforms, or judge by their fruit, as Christ said?

I wouldn't recommend that course for a Republican; judge not, lest ye be judged.

Opdrey · Mar 26, 2022

Aldebaran said:
Your hostility toward the Republican party and those who agree with most of the things they stand for is noted, as are your interesting spins on the issues.

And your inability to mount a reasoned response to them is also noted.

ottawak · Mar 26, 2022

Aldebaran said:
Nor do I need to.

But I believe you have, and if not you personally then many of your colleagues of the Christian Right.

Aldebaran · Mar 26, 2022

Opdrey said:
Facile point. Are you unaware of how global markets work? Russia is a major exporter of oil to many countries. As such when Russia INVADED A SOVEREIGN COUNTRY and the rest of the world froze them out of markets it had an impact on gas prices here at home! Not because we import a lot of oil from Russia ourselves (we don't), but because global markets are much more complex than that.

The inflation also comes after 2 years of economic lockdown. You may have heard about the global pandemic that has killed nearly a million Americans in 2 year, right? Economists tell us it is quite common for a market that has been depressed because of people being out of the market bouncing back with inflation and higher prices when the market opens up again.

Your point is made of oversimplification of much bigger, more complex topics.

Meanwhile the Left ALWAYS votes for better social safety nets and equitable access to things like healthcare. While the Right ALWAYS votes against those things.

Oil and gasoline were rising long before Russia invaded Ukraine, and inflation was also on the rise. Russia may have accelerated things, but biden's continuing government hand-outs and endless printing of money is only making inflation worse.

Aldebaran · Mar 26, 2022

Opdrey said:
And your inability to mount a reasoned response to them is also noted.

When someone makes a bunch of untruthful statements, it's not necessary to make any responses. You made your comments, and I noted where they came from.

Rachel20 · Mar 26, 2022

ottawak said:
I wouldn't recommend that course for a Republican; judge not, lest ye be judged.

It seems the right is being judged all over the place in this thread

I get the spirit of the OP, and I agree with it. But I'm not seeing that spirit here.

Opdrey · Mar 26, 2022

Aldebaran said:
When someone makes a bunch of untruthful statements, it's not necessary to make any responses. You made your comments, and I noted where they came from.

You know, the best part of this thread was your "incisive questions" about what part of the GOP platform Jesus would agree with. I went through and answered it with actual citations to the Bible itself but that seems to have not hooked your interest.

Was it because it is uncomfortable to face the actual words of the Bible?

Rachel20 · Mar 26, 2022

Opdrey said:
Facile point. Are you unaware of how global markets work?

Do they not operate the same when the political right is in power?

Opdrey · Mar 26, 2022

Rachel20 said:
It seems the right is being judged all over the place in this thread I get the spirit of the OP, and I agree with it. But I'm not seeing that spirit here.

Ahh, but the Right (who according to this thread) more closely aligns with Christian values then Christian values must be adhered to by the Right. No one is saying the Left is somehow more Christian.

No, we are told repeatedly how Christian the Right is. Since the 1980's when the MOral Majority firmed up the relationship.

And when the Bible speaks it doesn't always speak words of comfort to the comfortable.

ottawak · Mar 26, 2022

Rachel20 said:
It seems the right is being judged all over the place in this thread I get the spirit of the OP, and I agree with it. But I'm not seeing that spirit here.

No, you're just seeing disagreement. I don't believe anyone here has judged the political Right as being evil. Just hypocritical.

Opdrey · Mar 26, 2022

Rachel20 said:
Do they not operate the same when the political right is in power?

Remind me: was Russia running an active war when Trump was in power? Also, was the economy recovering from the 2021 wave of Omicron and the economic shutdowns when Trump was in office?

Your point is facile because it doesn't account for anything but most oversimplified false correlations.

Aldebaran · Mar 26, 2022

Opdrey said:
You know, the best part of this thread was your "incisive questions" about what part of the GOP platform Jesus would agree with. I went through and answered it with actual citations to the Bible itself but that seems to have not hooked your interest.

Was it because it is uncomfortable to face the actual words of the Bible?

You stated your answers. Everyone else is free to do the same with their own answers.

Opdrey · Mar 26, 2022

Aldebaran said:
You stated your answers. Everyone else is free to do the same with their own answers.

I just love how you zero in on the things that DON'T include Bible quotes. Just curious, that's all.

One of the things I value from the truly pious is their ability to lure someone into actually RESPONDING THROUGHTFULLY to their points so they can turn around and treat them like trash by simply ignoring it.

It's a true testament to one's witness for God that one can treat others in a way they clearly want to be treated themselves.

My apologies for disappointing you by actually responding with some thought to your post. Clearly you don't want people to respect your points and I failed to live up to your needs.

Again, my apologies.

Luke 6:31

Rachel20 · Mar 26, 2022

ottawak said:
No, you're just seeing disagreement. I don't believe anyone here has judged the political Right as being evil. Just hypocritical.

I just see the usual attempts to get other people to vote the way you want them to, in this case religion is being used. I had an atheist FB friend that railed against the right for voting their "christian values" because he didn't want a theocracy. But as soon as that same right voted Trump in, he railed against them for not voting their "christian values" ^_^

THE EVANGELICAL CHURCH IS BREAKING APART Christians must reclaim Jesus from his church

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