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By the way, lest there be no confusion, I do not support Putin; my prayer and my desire is for a course of conduct which will minimize any further civilian casualties. When we have both Ukraine and Russia sending in Islamist fighters, and Russia and setting off thermobaric weapons in residential areas and bombing civilian targets, and Ukraine also using Neo-Nazis, and Russian troops inadequately supplied suffering frostbite and malnutrition, and sanctions punitively impacting the Russian people for a leader who has probably not won an election “fair and square” for many years, aside from war crimes, basically this is violence against Eastern Orthodox (Ukrainian and Russians, the largest number of Ukrainians actually members of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church under Metropolitan Onuphrius, an autonomous part of the Russian Orthodox Church, so not only the same religion but the same jurisdiction, something I can’t think of happening since the Revolutionary War in the US which caused members of the Church of England (such as George Washington) to fight other members of the Church of England, not to mention Ukrainian Greek Catholics, Ruthenian Greek Catholics, Roman Catholics, Russian (Byzantine Rite) Catholics, Ukrainian Lutherans, and other Orthodox Christians, and this violence conducted by Putin and Zelenskyy and other powers against these Christians and people of other religions, I just want that to stop.

I am extremely upset by this conflict, which is introducing artificial division into the Moscow Patriarchate, which has historically always been a multiethnic church, comprising all the nationalities of the former Soviet Union, as well as the Japanese Orthodox Church and most Korean and Chinese Christians.

Speaking of which, the dreadful thought of the PRC invading Taiwan is terrible, for among other reasons, the fact that Eastern Orthodox Christianity is illegal in mainland China, along with most Christian denominations, so you have basically an uncanonical Patriotic Catholic Church and an uncanonical Patriotic Protestant Church, with no room for denominational diversity. Likewise Taiwan tolerates religions such as Confucianism, which mainland China prohibits outright, and Taoism, the practice of which has become restricted, and Falun Gong, which is kind of a cult but also a victim of outright persecution by the PRC, which along with North Korea is one of the most anti-religious regimes.
 
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Bradskii

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By the way, lest there be no confusion, I do not support Putin; my prayer and my desire is for a course of conduct which will minimize any further civilian casualties. When we have both Ukraine and Russia sending in Islamist fighters, and Russia and setting off thermobaric weapons in residential areas and bombing civilian targets, and Ukraine also using Neo-Nazis, and Russian troops inadequately supplied suffering frostbite and malnutrition, and sanctions punitively impacting the Russian people for a leader who has probably not won an election “fair and square” for many years, aside from war crimes, basically this is violence against Eastern Orthodox (Ukrainian and Russians, the largest number of Ukrainians actually members of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church under Metropolitan Onuphrius, an autonomous part of the Russian Orthodox Church, so not only the same religion but the same jurisdiction, something I can’t think of happening since the Revolutionary War in the US which caused members of the Church of England (such as George Washington) to fight other members of the Church of England, not to mention Ukrainian Greek Catholics, Ruthenian Greek Catholics, Roman Catholics, Russian (Byzantine Rite) Catholics, Ukrainian Lutherans, and other Orthodox Christians, and this violence conducted by Putin and Zelenskyy and other powers against these Christians and people of other religions, I just want that to stop.

I am extremely upset by this conflict, which is introducing artificial division into the Moscow Patriarchate, which has historically always been a multiethnic church, comprising all the nationalities of the former Soviet Union, as well as the Japanese Orthodox Church and most Korean and Chinese Christians.

Speaking of which, the dreadful thought of the PRC invading Taiwan is terrible, for among other reasons, the fact that Eastern Orthodox Christianity is illegal in mainland China, along with most Christian denominations, so you have basically an uncanonical Patriotic Catholic Church and an uncanonical Patriotic Protestant Church, with no room for denominational diversity. Likewise Taiwan tolerates religions such as Confucianism, which mainland China prohibits outright, and Taoism, the practice of which has become restricted, and Falun Gong, which is kind of a cult but also a victim of outright persecution by the PRC, which along with North Korea is one of the most anti-religious regimes.

Won't someone think of the Moscow Patriarchate!
 
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Won't someone think of the Moscow Patriarchate!

The Moscow Patriarchate of the Russian Orthodox Church is the second largest Christian denomination, and the largest Eastern Orthodox church, and under its omophorion are the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church, the Belarussian Orthodox Church, the Chinese Orthodox Church, the Japanese Orthodox Church, the Lithuanian and Latvian Orthodox Churches, the canonical Estonian Orthodox Church, and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (which reconciled with the MP after severing ties with it during the Soviet era according to instructions from Patriarch Tikhon), and is responsible for having granted autocephaly (independence) to the Orthodox Church in America, which is, like ROCOR and the MP, multi-ethnic, and the OCA and ROCOR collectively represent the majority of Eastern Christians of Slavonic background in the US.

Given that the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople has alienated the Patriarchate of Antioch by refusing to act against uncanonical incursions into Antiochian churches by the Patriarchate of Jerusalem, and alarmed many Eastern Orthodox through recent claims by the the former Metropolitan of Bursa, now the Archbishop of North America, that the Ecumenical Patriarchate is not first among equals but first without equals and has the exclusive right to not only grant but also rescind the autocephaly of Eastern Orthodox churches, a claim lacking in any canonical basis, and given that the EP in 2019 decided to shut down its Russian Orthodox Exarchate in Western Europe and put those parishes under Greek bishops (resulting in most leaving and affiliating with the MP), for no logical or coherent reason, the Russian Orthodox Church under the Moscow Patriarchate is extremely important to traditionalist Eastern Orthodox Christians, and it is imperative that the association of this war with the MP be avoided.

I evaluated the controversial remarks by Patriarch Kyrill and do not believe that he expressed support for the war, and many clergy under the omophorion of the MP oppose it.

Since the war began, Russian Orthodox Churches, even those with largely Ukrainian congregations, have experienced incidents of vandalism and threats, which is extremely alarming.

Putin has apparently embraced Orthodoxy and rejected Communism and with it, Atheism (a prerequisite to Party membership, although many Christians disclaimed their faith publicly for fear of reprisals against their family while practicing secretly, however, Putin was an officer in the KGB at an important station, Berlin, at an important time, which suggests that he was at least considered trustworthy by the apparatchiks and the KGB leadership, which was quite sinister even in the Gorbachev era), appearing at St. Savior’s Cathedral in Moscow on Christmas and Pascha (Easter); it is not for me to judge if his faith is sincere, or if he just happens to attend the largest cathedral* in Moscow for political reasons, or indeed if his beliefs are confused. I can’t comment on the sincerity of his faith, only God knows.

And I believe and confess there is a God, an infinitely loving God who does grant us free will, but forgives us our sins if we repent with sincerity, one God of three persons in a union of eternal love, the Father unoriginate, from whom the Son and Holy Spirit are generated and proceed in eternity, before all ages, as the Nicene Creed states, for I believe God created time, or creates time, since God exists independently of it, who in His singular divine essence is completely transcendental, but who is imminent and comprehensible through His uncreated energies, such as divine grace, which I pray more people are able to experience, and who assumed our fallen nature in order to restore it to His image through the incarnation of God the Son as Jesus Christ, the promised Messiah who was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Bearer and Mother of God, who for our sakes was crucified, died and buried, who descended into Hell, and who rose again on the Third Day as prophesied, and ascended into Heaven, thus being the first fruits of the Resurrection, and who sent the same Holy Spirit who sent Him into the World, into the World as the Paraclete and Comforter to dwell in all Christians, who became temples of the Holy Spirit, and these temples are defiled when Christians are caused to commit violence upon one another rather than living together in peace and brotherhood.

Ergo, Putin’s actions are having a detrimental effect on the church he at least visibly, and hopefully sincerely, supports, a church which has about 200 million members on every continent, including Antarctica, and which was horribly persecuted, manipulated, coerced and vandalized by the Soviet Union, with policies that prevented Orthodox Christians and all other Christians, Muslims and practicing Jews, and people of other faiths such as Buddhism and some indigenous Shamanist religions, from membership in the Communist Party, thus relegating them to the lower classes of the supposedly classless Soviet state.

Thus I pray Putin realizes this, and repents, just as I pray Zelenskyy sues for peace in earnest rather than taking actions likely to provoke further violence from an unrepentant Putin.

There are by the way two other Russian Old Rite “Old Believer” Orthodox churches in Russia not in communion with the MP or the other major Orthodox churches; there are also Old Believer churches based in other countries, and a large number of Old Rite parishes in the MP and some in ROCOR. These also face persecution due to this conflict, because of anti-Russian sentiment engendered by Putin’s invasion.

So from a Christian perspective, these churches are among the victims of this tragedy, along with other Eastern Orthodox Churches, the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, the Ukrainian Lutheran Church, the Ruthenian Greek Catholic Church, the Russian Catholic Church, and the Roman Catholic Church (which operates in both Russia and Ukraine) and several other denominations.

I would argue the primary victims are the Moscow Patriarchate, especially its Ukrainian Orthodox Church, and the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, which faced severe persecution during the Soviet Union along with the other aforesaid Catholic Churches due to Soviet antipathy towards the Papacy, but all Slavonic Christian Churches are suffering due to this war.

*St. Basil’s Cathedral, although more famous, is still a museum owned by the Russian government, although unlike the Soviets, St. Basil’s has, if I recall, hosted the Divine Liturgy on some occasions since the downfall of communism. However, St. Savior’s is much larger and more practical, consisting of one large open church, and then another located beneath it on the ground floor, whereas St. Basils consists of nine chapels each with an onion dome, one of which appeared miraculously when its construction was completed. This layout is ideal for many services, but the massive Christmas and Paschal liturgies with the accompanying crowds are more easily accomodated in St. Savior’s, which was rebuilt with only slight changes to the design, and on the location of, the original, which Stalin, recognizing its utility to the Orthodox Church, blew up with explosives for a dramatic if impractically theatrical demolition; a planned monument to communism that would have blasphemously been built on the same site was miraculously never built, and thus after the downfall of the Soviet Union it was possible for St. Savior’s to be rebuilt, providing Moscow with a cathedral large enough to accommodate the now unrestricted services (during the Soviet Union, the Russian Orthodox Church was also prohibited from catechesis, and preaching was heavily restricted).
 
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Bradskii

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The Moscow Patriarchate of the Russian Orthodox Church is the second largest Christian denomination, and the largest Eastern Orthodox church, and under its omophorion are the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church, the Belarussian Orthodox Church, the Chinese Orthodox Church, the Japanese Orthodox Church, the Lithuanian and Latvian Orthodox Churches, the canonical Estonian Orthodox Church, and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (which reconciled with the MP after severing ties with it during the Soviet era according to instructions from Patriarch Tikhon), and is responsible for having granted autocephaly (independence) to the Orthodox Church in America, which is, like ROCOR and the MP, multi-ethnic, and the OCA and ROCOR collectively represent the majority of Eastern Christians of Slavonic background in the US.

Given that the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople has alienated the Patriarchate of Antioch by refusing to act against uncanonical incursions into Antiochian churches by the Patriarchate of Jerusalem, and alarmed many Eastern Orthodox through recent claims by the the former Metropolitan of Bursa, now the Archbishop of North America, that the Ecumenical Patriarchate is not first among equals but first without equals and has the exclusive right to not only grant but also rescind the autocephaly of Eastern Orthodox churches, a claim lacking in any canonical basis, and given that the EP in 2019 decided to shut down its Russian Orthodox Exarchate in Western Europe and put those parishes under Greek bishops (resulting in most leaving and affiliating with the MP), for no logical or coherent reason, the Russian Orthodox Church under the Moscow Patriarchate is extremely important to traditionalist Eastern Orthodox Christians, and it is imperative that the association of this war with the MP be avoided.

I evaluated the controversial remarks by Patriarch Kyrill and do not believe that he expressed support for the war, and many clergy under the omophorion of the MP oppose it.

Since the war began, Russian Orthodox Churches, even those with largely Ukrainian congregations, have experienced incidents of vandalism and threats, which is extremely alarming.

Putin has apparently embraced Orthodoxy and rejected Communism and with it, Atheism (a prerequisite to Party membership, although many Christians disclaimed their faith publicly for fear of reprisals against their family while practicing secretly, however, Putin was an officer in the KGB at an important station, Berlin, at an important time, which suggests that he was at least considered trustworthy by the apparatchiks and the KGB leadership, which was quite sinister even in the Gorbachev era), appearing at St. Savior’s Cathedral in Moscow on Christmas and Pascha (Easter); it is not for me to judge if his faith is sincere, or if he just happens to attend the largest cathedral* in Moscow for political reasons, or indeed if his beliefs are confused. I can’t comment on the sincerity of his faith, only God knows. And there certainly is a God, an infinitely loving God who does grant us free will but forgives us our sins, one God of three persons in a union of eternal love, who in His singular divine essence is completely transcendental, but who is imminent and comprehensible through His uncreated energies, such as divine grace, which I pray more people are able to experience.

That being said, Putin’s actions are having a detrimental effect on the church he apparently supports, a church which has about 200 million members on every continent, including Antarctica, and which was horribly persecuted, manipulated, coerced and vandalized by the Soviet Union, with policies that prevented Orthodox Christians and all other Christians, Muslims and practicing Jews, and people of other faiths such as Buddhism and some indigenous Shamanist religions, from membership in the Communist Party, thus relegating them to the lower classes of the supposedly classless Soviet state.

There are by the way two other Russian Old Rite “Old Believer” Orthodox churches in Russia not in communion with the MP or the other major Orthodox churches; there are also Old Believer churches based in other countries, and a large number of Old Rite parishes in the MP and some in ROCOR. These also face persecution due to this conflict, because of anti-Russian sentiment engendered by Putin’s invasion.

So from a Christian perspective, these churches are among the victims of this tragedy, along with other Eastern Orthodox Churches, the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, the Ukrainian Lutheran Church, the Ruthenian Greek Catholic Church, the Russian Catholic Church, and the Roman Catholic Church (which operates in both Russia and Ukraine) and several other denominations.

I would argue the primary victims are the Moscow Patriarchate, especially its Ukrainian Orthodox Church, and the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, which faced severe persecution during the Soviet Union along with the other aforesaid Catholic Churches due to Soviet antipathy towards the Papacy, but all Slavonic Christian Churches are suffering due to this war.

*St. Basil’s Cathedral, although more famous, is still a museum owned by the Russian government, although unlike the Soviets, St. Basil’s has, if I recall, hosted the Divine Liturgy on some occasions since the downfall of communism. However, St. Savior’s is much larger and more practical, consisting of one large open church, and then another located beneath it on the ground floor, whereas St. Basils consists of nine chapels each with an onion dome, one of which appeared miraculously when its construction was completed. This layout is ideal for many services, but the massive Christmas and Paschal liturgies with the accompanying crowds are more easily accomodated in St. Savior’s, which was rebuilt with only slight changes to the design, and on the location of, the original, which Stalin, recognizing its utility to the Orthodox Church, blew up with explosives for a dramatic if impractically theatrical demolition; a planned monument to communism that would have blasphemously been built on the same site was miraculously never built, and thus after the downfall of the Soviet Union it was possible for St. Savior’s to be rebuilt, providing Moscow with a cathedral large enough to accommodate the now unrestricted services (during the Soviet Union, the Russian Orthodox Church was also prohibited from catechesis, and preaching was heavily restricted).

I don't think I've seen a post more out of touch with the awful tragedy of this war, one that exhibits so little empathy, than this one.
 
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The Liturgist

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I don't think I've seen a post more out of touch with the awful tragedy of this war, one that exhibits so little empathy, than this one.

Note that when I declared the Moscow Patriarchate and the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, and the other churches in Russia and Ukraine as the primary victims, I was referring not to the organizations themselves, but to the Christians therein, who are being killed in a fratricidal conflict.

A local church like the Moscow Patriarchate or the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church is nothing if not for its congregation; the members of the Church have been grafted onto that local church, which is a part of the very Body of Christ. War is inherently wrong; when members of the Body of Christ who have a vocation to be peacemakers, even at the cost of their lives, are killed as a result of being forced into violence against other members of that same Body, the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, it is a perversion of our religion and is defiling. That is why the prolongation of this conflict is terrible.

This is not to say that Christian lives matter more than other lives; indeed part of our vocation as Christians is to lay down our lives if need be for the salvation of others regardless of religious opinion.

The perversion I am complaining about, is that these churches are being made to do war within each other or one upon another, which adds from the perspective of moral theology an additional layer of sin and horror. This is why I admire Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. for his insistence on non-violence and consider him venerable, because he saw that as a Christian pastor his vocation required him to prevent people from killing other people even in the midst of an unjust cruelty. This was heroic virtue, and he died a martyr.

In Christianity, martyrdom is not recognized in the case of those who die in battle. Indeed St. Basil the Great felt soldiers should abstain from the Eucharist for five years after leaving the military; St. Athanasius had earlier expressed the view that military service is honorable, and I agree, but I think it is worth considering where St. Basil was coming from (note that Basil and Athanasius did not dispute over this; these issues were discussed in encyclicals within their own respective churches; the two were united and steadfast in opposition to Arianism).
 
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Nithavela

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By the way, lest there be no confusion, I do not support Putin; my prayer and my desire is for a course of conduct which will minimize any further civilian casualties. When we have both Ukraine and Russia sending in Islamist fighters, and Russia and setting off thermobaric weapons in residential areas and bombing civilian targets, and Ukraine also using Neo-Nazis, and Russian troops inadequately supplied suffering frostbite and malnutrition, and sanctions punitively impacting the Russian people for a leader who has probably not won an election “fair and square” for many years, aside from war crimes, basically this is violence against Eastern Orthodox (Ukrainian and Russians, the largest number of Ukrainians actually members of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church under Metropolitan Onuphrius, an autonomous part of the Russian Orthodox Church, so not only the same religion but the same jurisdiction, something I can’t think of happening since the Revolutionary War in the US which caused members of the Church of England (such as George Washington) to fight other members of the Church of England, not to mention Ukrainian Greek Catholics, Ruthenian Greek Catholics, Roman Catholics, Russian (Byzantine Rite) Catholics, Ukrainian Lutherans, and other Orthodox Christians, and this violence conducted by Putin and Zelenskyy and other powers against these Christians and people of other religions, I just want that to stop.

I am extremely upset by this conflict, which is introducing artificial division into the Moscow Patriarchate, which has historically always been a multiethnic church, comprising all the nationalities of the former Soviet Union, as well as the Japanese Orthodox Church and most Korean and Chinese Christians.

Speaking of which, the dreadful thought of the PRC invading Taiwan is terrible, for among other reasons, the fact that Eastern Orthodox Christianity is illegal in mainland China, along with most Christian denominations, so you have basically an uncanonical Patriotic Catholic Church and an uncanonical Patriotic Protestant Church, with no room for denominational diversity. Likewise Taiwan tolerates religions such as Confucianism, which mainland China prohibits outright, and Taoism, the practice of which has become restricted, and Falun Gong, which is kind of a cult but also a victim of outright persecution by the PRC, which along with North Korea is one of the most anti-religious regimes.
Luke 6:32-33
 
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FireDragon76

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Putin has apparently embraced Orthodoxy and rejected Communism and with it, Atheism (a prerequisite to Party membership, although many Christians disclaimed their faith publicly for fear of reprisals against their family while practicing secretly, however, Putin was an officer in the KGB at an important station, Berlin, at an important time, which suggests that he was at least considered trustworthy by the apparatchiks and the KGB leadership, which was quite sinister even in the Gorbachev era), appearing at St. Savior’s Cathedral in Moscow on Christmas and Pascha (Easter); it is not for me to judge if his faith is sincere, or if he just happens to attend the largest cathedral* in Moscow for political reasons, or indeed if his beliefs are confused. I can’t comment on the sincerity of his faith, only God knows.

Putin's religion is mystical superstitious mumbo-jumbo. He has a twisted blood and soil sacramental theology.

Here's a good interview with a Ukrainian priest talking about the religious dimensions of this conflict. Something that western media is largely ignorant of since they don't understand a sacramental worldview:


Ergo, Putin’s actions are having a detrimental effect on the church he at least visibly, and hopefully sincerely, supports, a church which has about 200 million members on every continent, including Antarctica, and which was horribly persecuted, manipulated, coerced and vandalized by the Soviet Union, with policies that prevented Orthodox Christians and all other Christians, Muslims and practicing Jews, and people of other faiths such as Buddhism and some indigenous Shamanist religions, from membership in the Communist Party, thus relegating them to the lower classes of the supposedly classless Soviet state.

It's good you mention non-Christian victims of the Soviet regime. What happened to the Altaic peoples under Communism was truly horrific.

Thus I pray Putin realizes this, and repents, just as I pray Zelenskyy sues for peace in earnest rather than taking actions likely to provoke further violence from an unrepentant Putin.

I don't see Russian citizens as wholely guiltless. They enabled an autocratic regime by buying into fear. Fear of "the West" and our "degenerate" ways, you know, of freedom, liberty, and the right to seek out your own values for your life.

Fear is a common human failing, but you reap what you sow.
 
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And there are no end of examples when a country has surrendered in the face of overwhelming forces. That's quite often a practical decision. Especially if there is a danger of non combatants being killed. But that's not your position.
? That is exactly my position.

The words "practical" and "prudential" in this context are synonymous.

The principles applied to justify the political authority's decision to go to war are the same as the decision to remain in war.
 
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Robban

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Putin's religion is mystical superstitious mumbo-jumbo. He has a twisted blood and soil sacramental theology.

Here's a good interview with a Ukrainian priest talking about the religious dimensions of this conflict. Something that western media is largely ignorant of since they don't understand a sacramental worldview:




It's good you mention non-Christian victims of the Soviet regime. What happened to the Altaic peoples under Communism was truly horrific.



I don't see Russian citizens as wholely guiltless. They enabled an autocratic regime by buying into fear. Fear of "the West" and our "degenerate" ways, you know, of freedom, liberty, and the right to seek out your own values for your life.

Fear is a common human failing, but you reap what you sow.

In this video at 55:35 and on a bit he talks about drones,

Another means Pres Putins intentions was taking the whole of Ukraine,

While the Russian side do not call it a war or invasion,

but special operations, to take out special targets.

Turkey has sent a large number of drones to Ukraine,

how well are the Ukrainians at operating drones?
 
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Nithavela

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In this video at 55:35 and on a bit he talks about drones,

Another means Pres Putins intentions was taking the whole of Ukraine,

While the Russian side do not call it a war or invasion,

but special operations, to take out special targets.

Turkey has sent a large number of drones to Ukraine,

how well are the Ukrainians at operating drones?
 
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FireDragon76

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In this video at 55:35 and on a bit he talks about drones,

Another means Pres Putins intentions was taking the whole of Ukraine,

While the Russian side do not call it a war or invasion,

but special operations, to take out special targets.

Turkey has sent a large number of drones to Ukraine,

how well are the Ukrainians at operating drones?

Most of the drones that are being used are semi-autonomous quadcopters, and are simple to control. They are used for artillery spotting and setting up ambushes.
 
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The Liturgist

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Putin's religion is mystical superstitious mumbo-jumbo. He has a twisted blood and soil sacramental theology.

Here's a good interview with a Ukrainian priest talking about the religious dimensions of this conflict. Something that western media is largely ignorant of since they don't understand a sacramental worldview:




It's good you mention non-Christian victims of the Soviet regime. What happened to the Altaic peoples under Communism was truly horrific.



I don't see Russian citizens as wholely guiltless. They enabled an autocratic regime by buying into fear. Fear of "the West" and our "degenerate" ways, you know, of freedom, liberty, and the right to seek out your own values for your life.

Fear is a common human failing, but you reap what you sow.

As you know, I have been a member of the Eastern Orthodox Church, the OCA, and often communicated at ROCOR parishes; I am conducting missionary work at present in an attempt, among other things, to introduce Orthodox sacramental theology to Protestants, which John Wesley did, in the hopes of reunification, and I am intimately familiar with the religious beliefs of some Russian nationalists.

Now, I have absolutely, sincerely, no way of knowing if pan-Slavism that is Putin’s religious view or if Putin is driven by his particular contempt for Nazis (he mentions them in every Victory Day speech, but then again, Victory Day does celebrate the defeat of Nazi Germany, so that is not unexpected), or if Putin is driven by purely secular motives and his religious attendance at certain televised services at St. Savior’s Cathedral is for propaganda purposes, to appeal to the emancipated and much expanded Russian Orthodox Church. Only God knows what his intentions are.

All I know is that he was at least nominally and likely credibly an atheist in order to get an important KGB commissioned officer rank and an important posting, like Berlin during the collapse of the DDR, and since that time he has apparently converted and he does attend the most high profile church services. But it is wrong to say that he is not really Christian, or to speculate on his Christian motives and to what extent they impacted his deeply flawed decision to wage this war.

However as I said previously the Russian Orthodox Church, which includes the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church, the other two Eastern Orthodox jurisdictions in Ukraine, and the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church and Roman Catholic Church, are, with respect to their congregations, the main victims of this horrible war, because statistically, since these (Eastern Orthodox and Catholicism, Byzantine or Greek Rite and Roman Rite) are the largest and second largest churches in both Russia and Ukraine, the majority of people being killed are either members of these churches, or no church at all (a still greater tragedy). Furthermore, I am convinced the Moscow Patriarchate is not to blame and is not complicit in this war, indeed, it has the most to lose, and the remarks by Patriarch Kyrill that some took as supporting war I think are more correctly interpreted as a reminder that the Orthodox Christians in Ukraine are brethren of the Orthodox Christians in Russia (and thus implicitly, it is wrong to kill them; Patriarch Kyrill is in a difficult position because his life and the lives and liberty of the Russian Orthodox Christians and all other Christians are in danger if he angers Putin. Its a bit like the position of Patriarch Sergius under Joseph Stalin.
 
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The Liturgist

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In this video at 55:35 and on a bit he talks about drones,

Another means Pres Putins intentions was taking the whole of Ukraine,

While the Russian side do not call it a war or invasion,

but special operations, to take out special targets.

Turkey has sent a large number of drones to Ukraine,

how well are the Ukrainians at operating drones?

One would assume the Turkish drones are conducting reconnaissance vis a vis Turkey’s attempted role as mediator.
 
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Robban

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Most of the drones that are being used are semi-autonomous quadcopters, and are simple to control. They are used for artillery spotting and setting up ambushes.

Well, maybe a little "one thing to another"

The video you posted, clicking continuation arrow on the right, I came to another video entitled,

"Religion at the heart of understanding Russia's claim on Ukraine."


Rowan Williams speak a much of the time, and I think

he painted a good picture of the matter, though as he said the "West" have difficulty in getting their mind around it.

Among other things Russia has a unique vocation in the world.

As is expressed in their National Athem,

"You are unique in the world,
one of a kind native land protected by God."
 
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The Liturgist

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Well, maybe a little "one thing to another"

The video you posted, clicking continuation arrow on the right, I came to another video entitled,

"Religion at the heart of understanding Russia's claim on Ukraine."


Rowan Williams speak a much of the time, and I think

he painted a good picture of the matter, though as he said the "West" have difficulty in getting their mind around it.

Among other things Russia has a unique vocation in the world.

As is expressed in their National Athem,

"You are unique in the world,
one of a kind native land protected by God."

In America, there are widely held similar beliefs about its exceptionalism, and also we have “In God We Trust” on our currency and coins, and historically, and to some extent even now, the United Kingdom, where the monarch is also head of the Church of England and Defender of the Faith, and in the past, this was also the case of Germany and Austria-Hungary. It also was or is the case with regards to Spain, and Greece, and Italy, and Romania, and Ireland, and Cyprus, and Poland, and Bulgaria, with regards to their special relationship to Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, and to Ethiopia and Armenia with regards to their importance to their respective Oriental Orthodox religions.
 
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JohnPaul88

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By the way, lest there be no confusion, I do not support Putin; my prayer and my desire is for a course of conduct which will minimize any further civilian casualties. When we have both Ukraine and Russia sending in Islamist fighters, and Russia and setting off thermobaric weapons in residential areas and bombing civilian targets, and Ukraine also using Neo-Nazis, and Russian troops inadequately supplied suffering frostbite and malnutrition, and sanctions punitively impacting the Russian people for a leader who has probably not won an election “fair and square” for many years, aside from war crimes, basically this is violence against Eastern Orthodox (Ukrainian and Russians, the largest number of Ukrainians actually members of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church under Metropolitan Onuphrius, an autonomous part of the Russian Orthodox Church, so not only the same religion but the same jurisdiction, something I can’t think of happening since the Revolutionary War in the US which caused members of the Church of England (such as George Washington) to fight other members of the Church of England, not to mention Ukrainian Greek Catholics, Ruthenian Greek Catholics, Roman Catholics, Russian (Byzantine Rite) Catholics, Ukrainian Lutherans, and other Orthodox Christians, and this violence conducted by Putin and Zelenskyy and other powers against these Christians and people of other religions, I just want that to stop.

I am extremely upset by this conflict, which is introducing artificial division into the Moscow Patriarchate, which has historically always been a multiethnic church, comprising all the nationalities of the former Soviet Union, as well as the Japanese Orthodox Church and most Korean and Chinese Christians.

Speaking of which, the dreadful thought of the PRC invading Taiwan is terrible, for among other reasons, the fact that Eastern Orthodox Christianity is illegal in mainland China, along with most Christian denominations, so you have basically an uncanonical Patriotic Catholic Church and an uncanonical Patriotic Protestant Church, with no room for denominational diversity. Likewise Taiwan tolerates religions such as Confucianism, which mainland China prohibits outright, and Taoism, the practice of which has become restricted, and Falun Gong, which is kind of a cult but also a victim of outright persecution by the PRC, which along with North Korea is one of the most anti-religious regimes.
I don't support the Ukraine either, not everything is being told by the MSM as to what the Ukraine is doing.
 
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Robban

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In America, there are widely held similar beliefs about its exceptionalism, and also we have “In God We Trust” on our currency and coins, and historically, and to some extent even now, the United Kingdom, where the monarch is also head of the Church of England and Defender of the Faith, and in the past, this was also the case of Germany and Austria-Hungary. It also was or is the case with regards to Spain, and Greece, and Italy, and Romania, and Ireland, and Cyprus, and Poland, and Bulgaria, with regards to their special relationship to Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, and to Ethiopia and Armenia with regards to their importance to their respective Oriental Orthodox religions.

And Germany had on their belt buckles "God with us".

But listening to the speakers in the video I mentioned gives a little deeper thoughts to the spirit,

The "Spirit of Russia" or the soul of Russia.

Among other things how can one "Christian" part of the body saction another part of the body?
 
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