3,5 years?

3 Resurrections

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Those who believe that Christ already came back in AD 70 can hardly obey our Lord’s command to “keep watching” until He comes (Matthew 24:42).

Unless one believes like me that scripture teaches not only a second bodily coming of Christ in AD 70,but also a third bodily coming in our future at a final resurrection and judgment.

It feels as if you are shouting past me at someone far off in the bleachers instead of addressing what I've written. All but maybe a couple of your objections are against something I'm not even saying. Not all Preterists think alike on every subject. It sounds as if you want to group them all into one generic category. Generalizations can only go so far.
 
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Major1

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Unless one believes like me that scripture teaches not only a second bodily coming of Christ in AD 70,but also a third bodily coming in our future at a final resurrection and judgment.

It feels as if you are shouting past me at someone far off in the bleachers instead of addressing what I've written. All but maybe a couple of your objections are against something I'm not even saying. Not all Preterists think alike on every subject. It sounds as if you want to group them all into one generic category. Generalizations can only go so far.

But that is NOT what Scriptures teach. That is what YOU WANT them to teach and there in lies the problem.

Your comments about the 2nd Coming of Christ in 70 AD and then a 3rd is just not in the Bible and it show that you have not actually done the study at all.

What you are doing is classic. You hear or read what some one says, it sounds good and so you run with it. Then when someone who actually knows what the Scriptures do say, you feel like that person is yelling at you.

You can think anything you want but the bottom line is that when you take that 1st step away from the Word of God...it is all down hill to heresy from that point on.
 
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3 Resurrections

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Your comments about the 2nd Coming of Christ in 70 AD and then a 3rd is just not in the Bible and it show that you have not actually done the study at all.

I've studied the scripture references in relation to a third coming for 10 years by now. They are there. You have read over them yourself for years probably, without recognizing them as proof of a third coming.

I don't just "read what someone says and run with it". I read what Christ and the scriptures say and pay very close attention to every word - even every letter sometimes in the case of something plural or singular.

And no, I am not saying that you are yelling at me. I am saying your comments are all speaking past me to some generalized category of Preterist that you presume all Preterists fit into. That's not me. I don't fit into any one category.
 
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grafted branch

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Preterism rests on a faulty hermeneutic and raises serious concerns for sincere students of Scripture. Consider the following; Preterism teaches:.............
Preterists actually teach that the “Babylon” of Revelation 17-18 is Jerusalem! Therefore, the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70 represents Christ’s ultimate triumph over unbelief. If you have not read that in YOUR OWN teachings from well known Preterists such as RC Sproul....then I suggest you do some more homework as it may be that I know more about your theology than you do!
I’m studying the Bible, and would like look at the hermeneutics involved in interpreting Revelation 17-18 and identifying what “Babylon” represents.

In Revelation 17:5 the name on the woman is MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

If Babylon doesn’t represent Jerusalem why would the would the word “MYSTERY” be used?
 
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Major1

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I’m studying the Bible, and would like look at the hermeneutics involved in interpreting Revelation 17-18 and identifying what “Babylon” represents.

In Revelation 17:5 the name on the woman is MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

If Babylon doesn’t represent Jerusalem why would the would the word “MYSTERY” be used?

Mystery simple means that something is now being revealed which was not known till now.

The Church was a "Mystery" until Paul explained it. (Ephesians 3:1-9)

There are TWO Babylon's in Rev. One in chapter 17 and one in chapter 18.

Open your Bible and look with me at verses 1-5 of chapter 17.

Now.....IMHO, when the Rapture removes the TRUE Church of God with its born again believers, there will be left behind an ANTI-CHURCH. This church will be made up of all the RELIGOUSE peoples of the earth. The "make-believers', the Hindues, the Buddests and all the others.

This is the BABYLON or harlot which is the mother of all idolatries.

This Anti-Church will then ride upon the robes of the Anti-Christ syatem.
Look at verses 15-18 to confirm that!

So then, this 1st Babylon in chapter 17 is "Ecclesiastical" or better said......
priestly · clerical · ecclesiastic · pastoral · church · religious · spiritual ·

Now the 2nd Babyon in is chapter 18 and it is "ECONOMIC".
It is the commercial center and it is loved by the ANTI-CHURCH.

It will be destroyed in ONE hour. Notice verse #17.

Now notice verse #17 b.

"Ships...shipmasters...sailors...and many that trade by the sea".

JERUSALM IS NOT A PORT CITY AND HAS NO HARBOUR!

So then, what is the name of this city Babylon??? NO ONE KNOWS!

Some say Rome Italy. Some say a city at the mouth of the Euphrates river where it goes into the Persian Gulf.

I tend to lean toward Rome, the head of the Roman Catholic church which rode the Roman Empire in the Dark Ages.
 
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Major1

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I've studied the scripture references in relation to a third coming for 10 years by now. They are there. You have read over them yourself for years probably, without recognizing them as proof of a third coming.

I don't just "read what someone says and run with it". I read what Christ and the scriptures say and pay very close attention to every word - even every letter sometimes in the case of something plural or singular.

And no, I am not saying that you are yelling at me. I am saying your comments are all speaking past me to some generalized category of Preterist that you presume all Preterists fit into. That's not me. I don't fit into any one category.

I am very sorry. I do not like to argue and be disagreeable with you but you are wrong!

My dear....if YOU promote ONE step of the false Preterist theology, you then are guilty of ALL their false teachings.

Since you have done a lot of study for the last 10 years, may I ask you to read the one Scripture you seem to have missed......

James 2:10 where it says, .....
"If you have committed one sin you are guilty of all."

If you think that I am speaking past you to others....then that is the conviction of the Holy Spirit speaking to YOU!

That means your phone is ringing.......answer it!
 
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3 Resurrections

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Now notice verse #17 b.

"Ships...shipmasters...sailors...and many that trade by the sea".

JERUSALM IS NOT A PORT CITY AND HAS NO HARBOUR!

Ever heard of an "inland port"? Jerusalem from antiquity was a major center of the trade routes that ran through this region. It was the wealth coming from ports along the coast which funneled their goods to serve the financial center that Jerusalem became due to the fact that the Temple was the central worship center for all Judaism. All the goods listed in Revelation 18:12-13 are those which would service the Temple and its rituals and the economy of that city.

Since you have done a lot of study for the last 10 years, may I ask you to read the one Scripture you seem to have missed......

James 2:10 where it says, .....
"If you have committed one sin you are guilty of all."

I believe in a bodily resurrection for all the saints. Is that a "sin"?
I believe Paul spoke of a literal rapture of resurrected saints to heaven with Christ. Is that a "sin"?
I believe God promised to "slay the dragon that is in the sea" - meaning Satan. Is that a "sin"?
I believe with all Preterists in the virgin birth. Is that a "sin"?
I believe in Christ's bodily return to earth at a second coming. Is that a "sin"?
I believe when Christ said that the entire list of tragedies in Luke 21:8-35 were ALL "about to come to pass" in Christ's own generation. Is that a "sin" to believe Him?

I could go on and on. Every point I have ever made has been meticulously reconciled with the entirety of scripture. If you can't understand these same points and consider them a "sin", fortunately our salvation does not depend on our level of knowledge on these things, or on our agreement with each other.
 
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grafted branch

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Mystery simple means that something is now being revealed which was not known till now.

The Church was a "Mystery" until Paul explained it. (Ephesians 3:1-9)

There are TWO Babylon's in Rev. One in chapter 17 and one in chapter 18.
Thanks for your explanation, I agree that “mystery” is referring to something that was hidden but is now revealed.
Now.....IMHO, when the Rapture removes the TRUE Church of God with its born again believers, there will be left behind an ANTI-CHURCH. This church will be made up of all the RELIGOUSE peoples of the earth. The "make-believers', the Hindues, the Buddests and all the others.

This is the BABYLON or harlot which is the mother of all idolatries.

This Anti-Church will then ride upon the robes of the Anti-Christ syatem.
Look at verses 15-18 to confirm that!

So then, this 1st Babylon in chapter 17 is "Ecclesiastical" or better said......
priestly · clerical · ecclesiastic · pastoral · church · religious · spiritual ·

In 1John 2:18-20 the many antichrist’s were in the world at that time. Verse 20 indicates that believers know this by the unction of the Holy Spirit.

So this anti-church could be known by believers after Pentecost.

In Revelation 17:6, why does John wonder with great admiration when he sees the woman? Shouldn’t he have already been aware of who she was?
 
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Major1

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Thanks for your explanation, I agree that “mystery” is referring to something that was hidden but is now revealed.


In 1John 2:18-20 the many antichrist’s were in the world at that time. Verse 20 indicates that believers know this by the unction of the Holy Spirit.

So this anti-church could be known by believers after Pentecost.

In Revelation 17:6, why does John wonder with great admiration when he sees the woman? Shouldn’t he have already been aware of who she was?

John's mind was blown! He was boggled! How could he have know????

He was taken from the island of Patmos in 95 AD by the Spirit to the future of approx. 2000 years in the future. He did not know what he was seeing and only wrote what his 95 AD mind could comprehend.
 
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Major1

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Ever heard of an "inland port"? Jerusalem from antiquity was a major center of the trade routes that ran through this region. It was the wealth coming from ports along the coast which funneled their goods to serve the financial center that Jerusalem became due to the fact that the Temple was the central worship center for all Judaism. All the goods listed in Revelation 18:12-13 are those which would service the Temple and its rituals and the economy of that city.



I believe in a bodily resurrection for all the saints. Is that a "sin"?
I believe Paul spoke of a literal rapture of resurrected saints to heaven with Christ. Is that a "sin"?
I believe God promised to "slay the dragon that is in the sea" - meaning Satan. Is that a "sin"?
I believe with all Preterists in the virgin birth. Is that a "sin"?
I believe in Christ's bodily return to earth at a second coming. Is that a "sin"?
I believe when Christ said that the entire list of tragedies in Luke 21:8-35 were ALL "about to come to pass" in Christ's own generation. Is that a "sin" to believe Him?

I could go on and on. Every point I have ever made has been meticulously reconciled with the entirety of scripture. If you can't understand these same points and consider them a "sin", fortunately our salvation does not depend on our level of knowledge on these things, or on our agreement with each other.

NO! I have not and Jerusalem has no port. You are incorrect!

Babylon IS NOT Jerusalem!.

Jerusalem will last forever, but Babylon of Revelation will be destroyed forever.

The Book of Revelation tells us that Babylon, whose name is a mystery, will be utterly destroyed and forever after the seventh bowl, that is, at the end of the seventieth week of the prophet Daniel:

Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl upon the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple from the throne, saying, “It is done.” And there were flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder; and there was a great earthquake, such as there had not been since man came to be upon the earth, so great an earthquake was it, and so mighty. The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. Babylon the great was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of His fierce wrath. (Revelation 16:17-19)
 
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3 Resurrections

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Jerusalem will last forever, but Babylon of Revelation will be destroyed forever.

Very true, the NEW Jerusalem of the New Covenant will last forever; but Mystery Babylon as the OLD Jerusalem with its Old Covenant Temple and priesthood system actually WAS destroyed forever. Those "weak and beggarly elements" were already dead in the days after Christ's resurrection, and were "about to vanish away". You can't leave dead stuff lying around; it has to be disposed of, which God accomplished down to the last stone, back in AD 70 (which was not part of the 70th week that ended in AD 37).
 
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grafted branch

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John's mind was blown! He was boggled! How could he have know????

He was taken from the island of Patmos in 95 AD by the Spirit to the future of approx. 2000 years in the future. He did not know what he was seeing and only wrote what his 95 AD mind could comprehend.
Well, that’s a guess based on speculation. I think your trying to steer me away from the preterist view, I would prefer to use sound hermeneutics.

Revelation 17:6 says “and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration”. It doesn’t say John’s mind was blown or that he was boggled. It doesn’t say John wondered when he saw the beast or the fact that he was carried away in the spirit into the wilderness.

What it does say is that John wondered when he saw the woman.

This woman is drunk with the blood of the saints and martyrs. I would think this should be associated with Revelation 18:24 and Matthew 23:37-39 don’t you?
 
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Major1

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Well, that’s a guess based on speculation. I think your trying to steer me away from the preterist view, I would prefer to use sound hermeneutics.

Revelation 17:6 says “and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration”. It doesn’t say John’s mind was blown or that he was boggled. It doesn’t say John wondered when he saw the beast or the fact that he was carried away in the spirit into the wilderness.

What it does say is that John wondered when he saw the woman.

This woman is drunk with the blood of the saints and martyrs. I would think this should be associated with Revelation 18:24 and Matthew 23:37-39 don’t you?

Friend.....allow me to be crystal clear, I will and have always tried to steer anyone away from the False teaching of the Preterist theology!!!!

As far as speculation on what John saw......

Rev. 1:10......... “I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet”.

You said.......
"This woman is drunk with the blood of the saints and martyrs. I would think this should be associated with Revelation 18:24 and Matthew 23:37-39 don’t you?"

George Orwell was a writer best known for books such as Animal Farm and 1984. In one of his more well-known quotes, he stated "The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it." By the time of the tribulation, the world's opposition to truth—especially Christian truth—will be at an all-time high. So, too, will be its hatred for those who dare stand up for what is moral and right.

End-times Babylon will have no tolerance for God's people. The beast and his followers hate them so much they kill them and leave their blood stains on the streets (Revelation 11:7–8).

The evil system (Revelation 17:1–3) led by the beast is described in John's vision as martyring believers wherever it found them (Revelation 13:7; 12:16–17).

Babylon's goal will be to rid the earth of those who follow the Lamb and refuse to bow to the beast.

Even today, in countries opposed to Christianity, followers of Jesus are laying down their lives for the sake of the gospel. Jesus did not promise His followers a placid life; rather, He predicted that true believers would often suffer persecution.

He said, "If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you" (John 15:19). He also predicted, "Indeed, the hour is coming when whoever kills you will think he is offering service to God" (John 16:2), and promised, "In the world you will have tribulation" (John 16:33).

The overthrow of Babylon will partially avenge these martyrs.
 
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Major1

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Very true, the NEW Jerusalem of the New Covenant will last forever; but Mystery Babylon as the OLD Jerusalem with its Old Covenant Temple and priesthood system actually WAS destroyed forever. Those "weak and beggarly elements" were already dead in the days after Christ's resurrection, and were "about to vanish away". You can't leave dead stuff lying around; it has to be disposed of, which God accomplished down to the last stone, back in AD 70 (which was not part of the 70th week that ended in AD 37).

Mystery Babylon IS NOT the OLD Jerusalem and you repeating it will not make it so.

The OLD Temple was destroyed in 70 AD BUT the foundation of that temple is still LAYING AROUND.

It is actually the Western Wailing Wall right now.

Your thesis you just posted is now completly destroyed!
 
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3 Resurrections

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Mystery Babylon IS NOT the OLD Jerusalem and you repeating it will not make it so.

The OLD Temple was destroyed in 70 AD BUT the foundation of that temple is still LAYING AROUND.

It is actually the Western Wailing Wall right now.

Your thesis you just posted is now completly destroyed!

You are not correctly identifying the location of the second Temple, and are confusing the Wailing Wall with having been part of the Temple. It wasn't. It was actually the foundation support of the Fortress of Antonia, which was the barracks for the Roman soldiers in Jerusalem, directly opposite from the Second Temple, where they were able to oversee the Temple operations. The Temple was further south on Mount Zion.

Christ correctly prophesied that every stone within Jerusalem would be laid "even with the ground" in Luke 19:44. The Wailing Wall today is not an exception to Christ's prediction, since demolishing a building to be "even with the ground" means that the entire structure is demolished which is built upon the foundation stones at ground level that hold it up. Jerusalem was built upon unevenly-graded terrain, after all. The "Wailing Wall" was part of what surrounded the "crawl-way space" of the Fortress of Antonia, so to speak. It wasn't part of the structure itself sitting on top of it, which was laid "even with the ground", as Christ predicted.

Mystery Babylon WAS Old Jerusalem. John's description in Revelation 18:24 of Mystery Babylon (guilty of the blood of the prophets, saints, and the slain of the earth) was a precise duplicate of Christ's Matthew 23:34-37 description of Old Jerusalem as the one guilty of the blood of the prophets, and of all the blood of the righteous shed on the earth from Abel until Zacharias.

Mystery Babylon in Revelation 17:18 was said to be "that great city which reigneth over the kings of the earth". When John referred to "that great city", he was referring back to the first time he mentioned "the great city where also our Lord was crucified" in Revelation 11:8. Unless you wish to state that Jesus was not crucified at Jerusalem, this is proof positive that Old Jerusalem where Christ was crucified was the same as Mystery Babylon, guilty of killing the prophets and the shed blood of the righteous from Abel until Zacharias. When Old Jerusalem became the "betrayer and murderer" of Christ our high priest representative, they essentially became guilty of the slain blood of everyone who was "IN Christ". The murder of a nation's ambassador is the equivalent of an offense against the entire nation he represents.
 
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Major1

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You are not correctly identifying the location of the second Temple, and are confusing the Wailing Wall with having been part of the Temple. It wasn't. It was actually the foundation support of the Fortress of Antonia, which was the barracks for the Roman soldiers in Jerusalem, directly opposite from the Second Temple, where they were able to oversee the Temple operations. The Temple was further south on Mount Zion.

Christ correctly prophesied that every stone within Jerusalem would be laid "even with the ground" in Luke 19:44. The Wailing Wall today is not an exception to Christ's prediction, since demolishing a building to be "even with the ground" means that the entire structure is demolished which is built upon the foundation stones at ground level that hold it up. Jerusalem was built upon unevenly-graded terrain, after all. The "Wailing Wall" was part of what surrounded the "crawl-way space" of the Fortress of Antonia, so to speak. It wasn't part of the structure itself sitting on top of it, which was laid "even with the ground", as Christ predicted.

Mystery Babylon WAS Old Jerusalem. John's description in Revelation 18:24 of Mystery Babylon (guilty of the blood of the prophets, saints, and the slain of the earth) was a precise duplicate of Christ's Matthew 23:34-37 description of Old Jerusalem as the one guilty of the blood of the prophets, and of all the blood of the righteous shed on the earth from Abel until Zacharias.

Mystery Babylon in Revelation 17:18 was said to be "that great city which reigneth over the kings of the earth". When John referred to "that great city", he was referring back to the first time he mentioned "the great city where also our Lord was crucified" in Revelation 11:8. Unless you wish to state that Jesus was not crucified at Jerusalem, this is proof positive that Old Jerusalem where Christ was crucified was the same as Mystery Babylon, guilty of killing the prophets and the shed blood of the righteous from Abel until Zacharias. When Old Jerusalem became the "betrayer and murderer" of Christ our high priest representative, they essentially became guilty of the slain blood of everyone who was "IN Christ". The murder of a nation's ambassador is the equivalent of an offense against the entire nation he represents.

There is no other religious site in the world as holy as the Western Wall, or “Wailing Wall”. The western support wall of the Temple Mount is located in the Old City of Jerusalem.

Is The Wailing Wall Part Of The Second Temple?

Yes.
"It is believed by Jews that the Western Wall of the Second Temple of Jerusalem (destroyed by the Romans in 70 CE) is the only surviving structure of the Herodian Temple built during Herod Agrippa’s reign (37 BCE-4 BCE)."
Source: Is The Wailing Wall A Part Of The Jewish Temple? – chicagojewishnews.com

The Western Wall, located in the city of Jerusalem, is the most religious site in the world for the Jewish people. It is the remaining part of the Second Temple of Jerusalem.
Source: 24 Wailing Wall Facts: An Ancient Structure In Jerusalem! (kidadl.com)

The Western Wall is a 2,000-year-old retaining wall built on the western side of the temple mount in Jerusalem.
Source: What is the significance of the Western Wall / Wailing Wall in Jerusalem? (compellingtruth.org)

I really hate to keep saying....."YOU are wrong, AGAIN, and again and again but you are".

Bible study reveals that in Ezek. 5:9, ....
“And I will do in thee that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like”.

The context will show that this verse has to do with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar. But please note, God said the He would “not do any more the like”.

In other words, we read here God’s promise that He will never again destroy Jerusalem.
This verse alone should prove that Jerusalem is not mystery Babylon.

That kind of messes up the idea that Mystery Babylon which is destroyed in 1 hour is Jerusalem.

Let us first consider the passage that speaks of “Mystery Babylon”. We read in Rev. 17:3-5, “So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH”.

From what I have read by those who believe that “Mystery Babylon” is Jerusalem, it seems that most assume that the mystery associated with the woman who represents the great city is which city she represents. It is imperative that we understand from Scripture exactly what the mystery was that was associated with this woman.

Verses 3-5, quoted above, tell us that John saw a woman sitting on a beast. In verse 7 the angel said to John, “I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her…..”. Verses 8-17 reveal the meaning of the mystery of the beast, and verse 18 reveals the mystery of the woman herself. We read in that verse, “and the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth”. The mystery associated with the great city is not which city the woman represents, it is that the city reigns over the kings of the earth. If the mystery was which city the woman represented, the angel would have revealed the name when he revealed the mystery in verse 18. But he did not, he revealed the fact that the woman represents a city that reigns over the kings of the earth. Again, the mystery is not which city the woman represents, the mystery is that the city she represents “reigneth over the kings of the earth”.

We are now ready to ask the question: Which great city did the woman represent? The upper case letters in the woman’s name as given in the KJV are not, of course, part of the Greek manuscript, they are the interpretation by the translators. The phrase “the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth” is a description, not a name. I suggest therefore, that that phrase not be included in the name of the woman. But what about the word “mystery”, is that part of her name? It might be helpful to note that the NASB has in verse 5, “and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, BABYLON THE GREAT……..”. But let us get the answer to our question from Scriptures themselves rather than any one particular translation.

If we include the word “mystery” in the woman’s name, it implies that it is the name of the city that is a mystery or secret. That is to say, the phrase “Mystery Babylon” implies that the woman does not represent Babylon itself, but that “Babylon” is put for some other city. But as we learned in Rev. 17:18, the mystery is not which city she represents, but that she will reign over the kings of the earth. Therefore, I believe that the phrase “Mystery Babylon” as it appears in the KJV is quite misleading and that the word “mystery” should not be included in the woman’s name.

If we leave off the word mystery, which is not part of her name, and we leave off the description “the mother of harlots and abomination of the earth” we have the woman’s name as “BABYLON THE GREAT”. So the woman’s name that will appear upon her forehead will be “BABYLON THE GREAT”. And the mystery as to what the woman represents is that the great city will reign over the kings of the earth.

The point of all this is to show that there is no Scriptural reason to say that the woman, whose name is “BABYLON THE GREAT” is any city other than Babylon. We are told her name and we are told the mystery surrounding her. Neither includes any hint of Jerusalem. Further, if we do see this woman as representing Jerusalem we have a woman representing a city which represents a different city. That makes no sense. In short, I believe that the woman represents the city of Babylon.
Source:IS JERUSALEM “MYSTERY BABYLON”? – Right Word Truth
 
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Let us first consider the passage that speaks of “Mystery Babylon”. We read in Rev. 17:3-5, “So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH”.

From what I have read by those who believe that “Mystery Babylon” is Jerusalem, it seems that most assume that the mystery associated with the woman who represents the great city is which city she represents. It is imperative that we understand from Scripture exactly what the mystery was that was associated with this woman.

Verses 3-5, quoted above, tell us that John saw a woman sitting on a beast. In verse 7 the angel said to John, “I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her…..”. Verses 8-17 reveal the meaning of the mystery of the beast, and verse 18 reveals the mystery of the woman herself. We read in that verse, “and the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth”. The mystery associated with the great city is not which city the woman represents, it is that the city reigns over the kings of the earth. If the mystery was which city the woman represented, the angel would have revealed the name when he revealed the mystery in verse 18. But he did not, he revealed the fact that the woman represents a city that reigns over the kings of the earth. Again, the mystery is not which city the woman represents, the mystery is that the city she represents “reigneth over the kings of the earth”.

We are now ready to ask the question: Which great city did the woman represent? The upper case letters in the woman’s name as given in the KJV are not, of course, part of the Greek manuscript, they are the interpretation by the translators. The phrase “the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth” is a description, not a name. I suggest therefore, that that phrase not be included in the name of the woman. But what about the word “mystery”, is that part of her name? It might be helpful to note that the NASB has in verse 5, “and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, BABYLON THE GREAT……..”. But let us get the answer to our question from Scriptures themselves rather than any one particular translation.

If we include the word “mystery” in the woman’s name, it implies that it is the name of the city that is a mystery or secret. That is to say, the phrase “Mystery Babylon” implies that the woman does not represent Babylon itself, but that “Babylon” is put for some other city. But as we learned in Rev. 17:18, the mystery is not which city she represents, but that she will reign over the kings of the earth. Therefore, I believe that the phrase “Mystery Babylon” as it appears in the KJV is quite misleading and that the word “mystery” should not be included in the woman’s name.

If we leave off the word mystery, which is not part of her name, and we leave off the description “the mother of harlots and abomination of the earth” we have the woman’s name as “BABYLON THE GREAT”. So the woman’s name that will appear upon her forehead will be “BABYLON THE GREAT”. And the mystery as to what the woman represents is that the great city will reign over the kings of the earth.

The point of all this is to show that there is no Scriptural reason to say that the woman, whose name is “BABYLON THE GREAT” is any city other than Babylon. We are told her name and we are told the mystery surrounding her. Neither includes any hint of Jerusalem. Further, if we do see this woman as representing Jerusalem we have a woman representing a city which represents a different city. That makes no sense. In short, I believe that the woman represents the city of Babylon.
Source:IS JERUSALEM “MYSTERY BABYLON”? – Right Word Truth
Thanks for that explanation; I have looked at this before and I don’t really understand why the word “mystery” would be used if Babylon is referring to the same kind of Babylon as the tower of Babel or Nebuchadnezzars Babylon. There would be no mystery revealed in Revelation 17:18, that great city which reigneth over the kings of the earth. Are there any other examples of the word mystery being used to describe something that’s not hidden?
 
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Bible study reveals that in Ezek. 5:9, ....
“And I will do in thee that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like”.

The context will show that this verse has to do with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar. But please note, God said the He would “not do any more the like”.

In other words, we read here God’s promise that He will never again destroy Jerusalem.
This verse alone should prove that Jerusalem is not mystery Babylon.

That kind of messes up the idea that Mystery Babylon which is destroyed in 1 hour is Jerusalem.

That underlined portion of your quote is not quite what God said. He was speaking through Ezekiel to a particular group of people in Jerusalem at the time, telling that particular generation of Jews that the punishment He would perform upon THEM would never be duplicated to THEM in their future. "And because of all your abominations I will do with YOU what I have never yet done, and the like of which I will never do again." This promise was to one particular audience and what THEY would experience in their own future. Read the fine print.

As for the location of the Temple in Jerusalem, your quoted sources are merely repeating the common misperception of the Wailing Wall being the Temple's location. God has let this misunderstanding persist through the years for a very good reason: to stall the building of another Temple structure in Jerusalem.

It is very simple to understand where the location of the Temple used to be by reading Nehemiah and the meticulous record of where the re-constructed city gates were located. The "water gate toward the east, and the tower that lieth out" was at Ophel (Nehemiah 3:26). This eastern "water gate" was at the location of the Temple street where the people assembled to hear God's law read in the 7th month in Nehemiah 8:3. The Dome of the Rock location could not possibly be the Temple site, since there was no available spring water there to service the ritual needs for "living water" for the Temple's use.

You have gone to some lengths to describe Mystery Babylon as "reigning over the kings of the earth (tes ges)". That is NOT "the kings of the whole habitable world" (oikoumenes holes) being reigned over. The "tes ges" term for "earth" refers specifically to the land of Israel the vast majority of the time we find it in scripture. And scripture typically uses the term "kings of the earth"(tes ges) to define the high priests of the land of Israel. Psalms 2:2 and Acts 4:26 write about the high priests in Israel opposing Christ the Anointed One. Christ also speaks of the "kings of the earth" as being the high priests that collected the Temple Tax in Matthew 17:25, with the high priest's own sons being exempt from paying it.

The city of Jerusalem (Mystery Babylon) in the days that John was writing most definitely had its Roman-governed power structure currently "reigning over the kings of the earth" (reigning over the high priesthood of the land of Israel) because Rome had become the one who was then appointing the high priests to their term of service, and controlling the use of the very garments worn by the high priest on the feast days. These garments were held in reserve in the fortress of Antonia under Roman control, instead of in the Temple as they once were under Mosaic law. In addition, the profane, required Tyrian shekel minted in Jerusalem with its abominable images and inscriptions in honor of the pagan Sea Beast was being required for use in the Temple, in contradiction to God's laws on idolatry.

Back then in John's days, all this was an upside-down state of affairs for the high priesthood, which was supposed to be the authority by which Jerusalem was governed, and the authority who interpreted the law in matters of judgment - not a pagan outside Roman empire's governors who was calling the shots.
 
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That underlined portion of your quote is not quite what God said. He was speaking through Ezekiel to a particular group of people in Jerusalem at the time, telling that particular generation of Jews that the punishment He would perform upon THEM would never be duplicated to THEM in their future. "And because of all your abominations I will do with YOU what I have never yet done, and the like of which I will never do again." This promise was to one particular audience and what THEY would experience in their own future. Read the fine print.

As for the location of the Temple in Jerusalem, your quoted sources are merely repeating the common misperception of the Wailing Wall being the Temple's location. God has let this misunderstanding persist through the years for a very good reason: to stall the building of another Temple structure in Jerusalem.

It is very simple to understand where the location of the Temple used to be by reading Nehemiah and the meticulous record of where the re-constructed city gates were located. The "water gate toward the east, and the tower that lieth out" was at Ophel (Nehemiah 3:26). This eastern "water gate" was at the location of the Temple street where the people assembled to hear God's law read in the 7th month in Nehemiah 8:3. The Dome of the Rock location could not possibly be the Temple site, since there was no available spring water there to service the ritual needs for "living water" for the Temple's use.

You have gone to some lengths to describe Mystery Babylon as "reigning over the kings of the earth (tes ges)". That is NOT "the kings of the whole habitable world" (oikoumenes holes) being reigned over. The "tes ges" term for "earth" refers specifically to the land of Israel the vast majority of the time we find it in scripture. And scripture typically uses the term "kings of the earth"(tes ges) to define the high priests of the land of Israel. Psalms 2:2 and Acts 4:26 write about the high priests in Israel opposing Christ the Anointed One. Christ also speaks of the "kings of the earth" as being the high priests that collected the Temple Tax in Matthew 17:25, with the high priest's own sons being exempt from paying it.

The city of Jerusalem (Mystery Babylon) in the days that John was writing most definitely had its Roman-governed power structure currently "reigning over the kings of the earth" (reigning over the high priesthood of the land of Israel) because Rome had become the one who was then appointing the high priests to their term of service, and controlling the use of the very garments worn by the high priest on the feast days. These garments were held in reserve in the fortress of Antonia under Roman control, instead of in the Temple as they once were under Mosaic law. In addition, the profane, required Tyrian shekel minted in Jerusalem with its abominable images and inscriptions in honor of the pagan Sea Beast was being required for use in the Temple, in contradiction to God's laws on idolatry.

Back then in John's days, all this was an upside-down state of affairs for the high priesthood, which was supposed to be the authority by which Jerusalem was governed, and the authority who interpreted the law in matters of judgment - not a pagan outside Roman empire's governors who was calling the shots.

Revelation 18:21
reveals that when Mystery Babylon is destroyed it will be thrown down, never to be found anymore. Mystery Babylon has an expiration date. We all know prophetically that Jerusalem does not have an expiration date.

Jerusalem stands as Christ’s capital over the world during the Millennial Kingdom, and the New Jerusalem is eternal.

No matter what you come up with,
Jeremiah 3:17 reveals......
“At that time Jerusalem shall be called The Throne of the Lord, and all the nations shall be gathered to it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem.”

Jerusalem is where Jesus is going to set up His throne during the Messianic Kingdom. So, it is IMPOSSIBLE to get past the obvious contradiction with the eternal destruction of Mystery Babylon as being Jerusalem.
 
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