Saul of Tarsus

God's Daughter 2021 · Feb 24, 2022

Have any of you finished reading the new testament from start to finish? What do you think about Saul of Tarsus/Paul. I've asked some people I know that I have been Christians for a while and it seems to be a touchy subject.

I came across this video that is an interesting study. It's on Revelation 1, 2, and 3 where Jesus wrote a letter to each of the seven churches in Asia. And in the one to Ephesus He talked about the false apostle circulating in Asia. There is one part in there about how the Holy Spirit forbid Paul from going to Asia in Acts. When I read Acts, that went right over my head. Curious if anyone else has struggled with what to make of him.

I think I'm going to start over and read through the entire book of Acts again after watching this video.

Summary of video: Study on Saul of Tarsus and Revelation 2.

TzephanYahu · Feb 24, 2022

Hey @God's Daughter 2021

Yes, Paul can be a touchy subject in Christianity unfortunately. He can divide people as much as he did right at the beginning of his ministry. It's a shame because he was truly a man of God and the wisdom that poured out from him in his epistles are incredible. He is kind of a hero for me really.

However, a newcomer to Bible or someone who only reads the New Testament can take his words out of context, if they aren't familiar with the Old Testament. This seems to be what the apostle Peter warned us about in 2 Peter 3:15-16. Therefore, it's good to think of Paul's letters as "THE Ultimate Commentary on the Whole Bible", and really they should be studied after one is familiar with the OT first and then Gospels - otherwise you could reach incorrect conclusions about his letters (hence the contraversy).

Anyway, there is a great film which will help you understand Paul's heart a little more called "Acts". It is, of course, a film based on the Book of Acts. It can be a little cheesey in places but the excellent thing about it is that it is word-for-word from the Book of Acts, so no extra misleading script is introduced (as often the case with other films on Paul). You can find the video to watch on YT for free. Here is one link for it.

Peace.

DragonFox91 · Feb 24, 2022

I’m confused. Paul isn’t really that touchy. His letters make up most of the NT & is a chief character in Acts. He can only be touchy b/c some people think he ‘invented’ Christianity & some of his teachings society today is upset about. Let me try watching your video & see what you mean

DragonFox91 · Feb 24, 2022

Oh goodness. I am only a minute or so into the video & it sounds like a false teacher to me. She's trying to lead a Brexit movement
‘believers should throw out Paul’s teachings. I have revelation about this. The church got it completely wrong.’ Taking verses out of context & the like.

Her argument here is 'Paul didn't write to them & Revelation says Jesus walks among them.' You really believe that? Just b/c Paul wrote to only one of the churches in Asia doesn't mean he's a bad dude. That's a ridiculous thought.

sandman · Feb 24, 2022

Not a touchy subject with me...Paul's writings are Jesus Christ words.

Galatians
1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Was that regarding Paul going to Jerusalem Acts 21:1-16? If that is it …it was not because of your reading….

Acts 21:14 And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done.

Translators (I assume) did not want to make Paul look bad…. so with commas they changed the directive.

The directive being ....(3x) Don’t go to Jerusalem actually 4x, because God would have told Paul first….but his hearts desire was to go to Jerusalem.

Remove the second and third comma and you have the truth.

And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased saying the will of the Lord be done.

He went …..and it did not go well for him.

miamited · Feb 24, 2022

Hi @God's Daughter 2021

I'm assuming, since this is in the 'new christians' forum, that you are a new christian. Praise God for that reality!!!!!

Paul,(Saul of Tarsus), had some very amazing encounters in the practice of his faith and ministry to the Gentiles of his day. Not only does he tell us that the Holy Spirit kept him, for a time, from going into Asia:

Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia.

But he also witnessed a complete and miraculous dismantling of chains and jail cell doors. He was bitten by a viper, which likely would have killed, if not surely made sick, any man, but claims to have suffered no ill effects. His first encounter with the living Lord was on a journey into Damascus as he was bent on destroying this new faith of christianity among the Jewish people. That encounter was of a brilliant light and hearing the Lord speak, but none of those around him seem to have been similarly affected.

We read that when he does get into Asia that he suffered quite a lot of resistance and set back. It's possible that the Holy Spirit kept him out of there in order for his faith to grow to the point that he could withstand that ordeal. At one point, about his Asian ministry, he decries that everyone has deserted him.

As for your video, I'd be very, very careful about accepting what is being taught in it. According to the Scriptures, Jesus himself told Paul that his ministry would be to the Gentiles. I, personally, am one who believes that there are no errors found in the Scriptures. That they were cobbled together by people led by the Holy Spirit to write the things that are written within them. I think when we look at the success of Paul's many ministry missionary journeys, it would be hard to imagine that he wasn't doing exactly what God wanted him to do.

We can certainly discuss the individual points that are made in the video, but to do it in one post would be terribly long and exhausting.

God bless,
Ted

Mr. M · Feb 24, 2022

God's Daughter 2021 said:
Have any of you finished reading the new testament from start to finish? What do you think about Saul of Tarsus/Paul. I've asked some people I know that I have been Christians for a while and it seems to be a touchy subject.

Anchor your studies to Isaiah, and try to find a contradiction!
Isaiah 59:21 “As for Me,” says the Lord, “this is My covenant with them: My Spirit who is upon you,
and My words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your descendants, nor from the mouth of your descendants’ descendants,” says the Lord, “from this time and forevermore.”
Paul quotes from Isaiah 26X in Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians.
Isaiah is quoted over 50X in the NT
Isaiah in the New Testament - Quotations Chart - In Isaiah Order
Let those quotes lead you to an in depth study, and find
the consistency of the message.

God's Daughter 2021 · Feb 24, 2022

I've read the old as like a daily reading plan but never from book to book. Thanks for your suggestions!

TzephanYahu said:
Hey @God's Daughter 2021

Yes, Paul can be a touchy subject in Christianity unfortunately. He can divide people as much as he did right at the beginning of his ministry. It's a shame because he was truly a man of God and the wisdom that poured out from him in his epistles are incredible. He is kind of a hero for me really.

However, a newcomer to Bible or someone who only reads the New Testament can take his words out of context, if they aren't familiar with the Old Testament. This seems to be what the apostle Peter warned us about in 2 Peter 3:15-16. Therefore, it's good to think of Paul's letters as "THE Ultimate Commentary on the Whole Bible", and really they should be studied after one is familiar with the OT first and then Gospels - otherwise you could reach incorrect conclusions about his letters (hence the contraversy).

Anyway, there is a great film which will help you understand Paul's heart a little more called "Acts". It is, of course, a film based on the Book of Acts. It can be a little cheesey in places but the excellent thing about it is that it is word-for-word from the Book of Acts, so no extra misleading script is introduced (as often the case with other films on Paul). You can find the video to watch on YT for free. Here is one link for it.

Peace.

miamited · Feb 24, 2022

Hi again @God's Daughter 2021

Do you believe that Paul's miraculous release from prison, that could only have been done with the power of God, would have been so if God didn't approve of his ministry? I believe that there are a lot of issues, within Paul's ministry, that one would have to say that God must have approved of his work.

As I say, I'd be very, very careful, especially as a new believer, in listening to arguments against the truth and reliability of God's word, the Scriptures.

God bless,
Ted

God's Daughter 2021 · Feb 24, 2022

It was in Act 19. I think towards to top. It say the Holy Spirit forbid him from going to Asia. Then the next chapter he went to Ephesus. Then Jesus congratulates Ephesus for identifying men who say they aren't apostles but aren't as liars. To be honest, it's a really strange.

sandman said:
Not a touchy subject with me...Paul's writings are Jesus Christ words.

Galatians
1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Was that regarding Paul going to Jerusalem Acts 21:1-16? If that is it …it was not because of your reading….

Acts 21:14 And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done.

Translators (I assume) did not want to make Paul look bad…. so with commas they changed the directive.

The directive being ....(3x) Don’t go to Jerusalem actually 4x, because God would have told Paul first….but his hearts desire was to go to Jerusalem.

Remove the second and third comma and you have the truth.

And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased saying the will of the Lord be done.

He went …..and it did not go well for him.

DragonFox91 · Feb 24, 2022

The YouTuber is cherry-picking what to believe. She cites Acts as a source for why she’s right but that’d be in negligence of all the good things Acts says Paul did.

God's Daughter 2021 · Feb 24, 2022

I don't know, they looked at me like they wanted to banish me from society lol. Thanks

DragonFox91 said:
I’m confused. Paul isn’t really that touchy. His letters make up most of the NT & is a chief character in Acts. He can only be touchy b/c some people think he ‘invented’ Christianity & some of his teachings society today is upset about. Let me try watching your video & see what you mean

God's Daughter 2021 · Feb 24, 2022

Thank you, sir. I can't argue that his release from prison wasn't a miracle.

miamited said:
Hi again @God's Daughter 2021

Do you believe that Paul's miraculous release from prison, that could only have been done with the power of God, would have been so if God didn't approve of his ministry? I believe that there are a lot of issues, within Paul's ministry, that one would have to say that God must have approved of his work.

As I say, I'd be very, very careful, especially as a new believer, in listening to arguments against the truth and reliability of God's word, the Scriptures.

God bless,
Ted

God's Daughter 2021 · Feb 24, 2022

I can recall a video I watched the other day by a different YouTuber. The lady seems to be taking some things out of context. I am a pretty open minded person and usually open to listening to reason, but she said some things that annoyed me because she was kinda reaching. I'm like, don't try to manipulate me. If you have a point l, make it, but don't try to get me to see something that's not there or say he meant one thing when he clearly meant something else.

DragonFox91 said:
The YouTuber is cherry-picking what to believe. She cites Acts as a source for why she’s right but that’d be in negligence of all the good things Acts says Paul did.

God's Daughter 2021 · Feb 24, 2022

Honestly, I'm not comfortable saying that emphatically. I will admit that the New Testament started to become like a suspense novel towards the end of the book of Matthew. And I actually started looking for an antagonist and nemesis once Jesus started talking about wolves in sheep clothing and false prophets deceiving people by performing miracles. So, when I got to the book of Acts, and saw Saul, my eyes started bulging.

miamited said:
Hi again @God's Daughter 2021

Do you believe that Paul's miraculous release from prison, that could only have been done with the power of God, would have been so if God didn't approve of his ministry? I believe that there are a lot of issues, within Paul's ministry, that one would have to say that God must have approved of his work.

As I say, I'd be very, very careful, especially as a new believer, in listening to arguments against the truth and reliability of God's word, the Scriptures.

God bless,
Ted

Trusting in Him · Feb 24, 2022

Do you have a bible which has cross references in the margin? Paul's teaching is frequently taken from the old testament teachings, but in a new testament context. Understanding Paul's teachings in the light of the old testament, may help you to see what Paul is trying to explain to those who already were often well grounded in old testament thinking. A lot of these people had some old testament understanding.

Paul came along and joined up the dots and showed these people how these old testament scriptures were leading up to the coming of Christ as the Messiah. Many Jews living amoung the gentiles had unknowingly been preparing the gentiles to be ready to receive Christ for themselves and God had been preparing Paul to preach the gospel to the gentiles. Paul made the old testament teachings and the coming of Christ as the Messiah to become real to these people.

Read the cross references for yourself and let Paul open up these same teachings for you as well. Many modern bibles do not have particularly useful margin references, so check out what's available before you choose which one you decide to get!

Gregorikos · Feb 24, 2022

God's Daughter 2021 said:
Have any of you finished reading the new testament from start to finish? What do you think about Saul of Tarsus/Paul. I've asked some people I know that I have been Christians for a while and it seems to be a touchy subject.

I came across this video that is an interesting study. It's on Revelation 1, 2, and 3 where Jesus wrote a letter to each of the seven churches in Asia. And in the one to Ephesus He talked about the false apostle circulating in Asia. There is one part in there about how the Holy Spirit forbid Paul from going to Asia in Acts. When I read Acts, that went right over my head. Curious if anyone else has struggled with what to make of him.

I think I'm going to start over and read through the entire book of Acts again after watching this video.

Summary of video: Study on Saul of Tarsus and Revelation 2.

I tend to read the New Testament and Psalms all the way through twice a year, the Old Testament one time per year.

Acts 16:6-10 is one of my favorite passages. Paul was simply trying to go where God wanted him to go, but he wasn't entirely clear. He tried this and that, but God was telling him, "that's not it." Finally he had the vision of the man from Macedonia and from this he CONCLUDED that that was God's will. It's a great example to all of us who want to obey God but aren't certain we're doing the right thing. Even Paul struggled at times with this.

miamited · Feb 24, 2022

God's Daughter 2021 said:
Honestly, I'm not comfortable saying that emphatically. I will admit that the New Testament started to become like a suspense novel towards the end of the book of Matthew. And I actually started looking for an antagonist and nemesis once Jesus started talking about wolves in sheep clothing and false prophets deceiving people by performing miracles. So, when I got to the book of Acts, and saw Saul, my eyes started bulging.

HI @God's Daughter 2021

And why exactly did your eyes start bulging?

God bless,
Ted

miamited · Feb 24, 2022

Hi again @God's Daughter 2021

You mention some being taken quite aback by some of your claims. I know that's true. Sometimes people who have believed for a long time or are very, very grounded in what the Scriptures say, don't appreciate that new believers are just learning a lot of what they already know. This is why the Scriptures encourage us to teach with patience and understanding. Of course, that's a teaching of Paul's to Timothy: "Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction".

So, it is fairly natural in our flesh, to hear one make claims such as you seem to be making and not use understanding and patience, that the person asking has just recently received the gospel and is still in the infancy of their faith. I hope not to come across that way to you, but my encouragement and teaching are what I believe God's word tells us we should do in correcting a believer.

The first bedrock truth that I believe comes soon to every new born again believer, is that the Scriptures are true and correct in all that they tell us. That for a man to be included in the writings of the new covenant, which such writings having been handed down and through the fellowship of believers since probably 40-50 A.D., that somehow made it in there without the approval of God and His Spirit, is fairly unbelievable for me. Many, many, many devout persons have taken it upon themselves to study and translate the Scriptures, and it is not until really quite recently that anyone, who claims to be a believer, has found fault with Paul's writings. It is that newness of an idea that really gives me pause.

Sometimes I read books that talk about how we've all misunderstood Jesus' ministry; or the Scriptures altogether. I flatly deny that's really possible, IF the Scriptures are, as Jesus said, the truth of God. I find it much more likely that new ideas such as these are the evil one's attempt to distract us from the truth. After all, Satan's attack, since the day in the garden with Eve, has always been, "Did God really say?"

God bless,
Ted

timf · Feb 25, 2022

I think a key to Paul can be found in Romans.

Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Paul was selected by Christ to bring the gospel (good news) to both Jews and gentiles. Peter had the gospel of the kingdom for the nation and Paul and the gospel of individual salvation. However, when Paul was preaching to Jews, he could also preach about the kingdom.

Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

One can benefit from seeing the offer of the kingdom and new covenant to the nation of Israel as being plan "A". The first covenant was established when the nation agreed to accept it at Mt. Sinai. Since the nation did not accept their kingdom and Jesus as king, the temple was destroyed in 70AD.

Plan "B" was for gentiles (and any Jews that were interested) to be saved by grace until the time when Israel would be restored. The bulk of the book of Revelation describes a time when a remnant of Israel will be not only willing but enthusiastic to receive their king and the kingdom.

Saul of Tarsus

Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Member

Ted

Well-Known Member

Member

Ted

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Ordinary Mystic

Ted

Ted

Regular Member

Similar threads