"You shall not kill" unless God commands it

ChristianForCats said:

"Human life" includes the unfertilized ova that are produced and flushed every month.

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Then you don't know your biology.

The ova is not life/living.

Clare73 said:

I can't believe this has to be explained. Have we taken leave of common sense?

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Yes, we crucified Jesus. Case closed.

Clare73 said:

I assume you are referring to legal authority, and not just the individual. For Christians, it is according to God's authority and law.

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If that were true in the slightest, then research would show Christians in Jail at a higher percentage. Which is not the case. Instead Christians follow local laws at the Fathers request.

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

What Does the Bible Say About Authority?

SkyWriting said:

Local laws are God's will for man.

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Oh, for cryin' out loud. . .

There is no law in our land requiring abortion that we are to obey.

And it is God's will that we obey the authorities, unless they require one to sin personally; i.e., to disobey God.

Romans 13:1-7

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Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

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It is God's will that we obey the authorities, unless they require us to sin personally.

There is no law in our land requiring abotion.

ChristianForCats said:

In America, millions of Christians agree only man's law determines the legality of abortion. Explain that to them if you don't like my replies.

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And what does that have to do with the Christian's personal obligation under God's law?

You want to talk about God's law. How about this one, which Jesus said: "Do to others as you would have them do to you." Would you want them to call you a murderer if you had an abortion?

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Does the murderer in prison want anyone to call him a murderer?

So the Court cannot declare he is a murderer?

Would you want an anti-choicer to tell you not to have an abortion because it is a sin, then walk away without proving help in any way?

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Help for what that they can procure on their own?

Or would you want the free health care, pregnancy/maternity counseling, childcare, educational opportunities, and job training
that are necessary to take care of both yourself and your child?

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Well, the first thing I would want is cessation of pregnancy outside of marriage.
We all know what causes it.
The taxpayers shouldn't have to pick up the tab on that behavior.

But which law are you advocating?
You can abort, so where's the need for government aid?

You cannot abort, and so you see if you qualify for government aid?

The law can't be both.

SkyWriting said:

If that were true in the slightest, then research would show Christians in Jail at a higher percentage.

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In jail for what?

How many laws do we have that require a Christian to sin personally?
I can't think of any.
I am required as a Christian to obey all that don't require me to sin personally, which is no law that I am aware of.

Which is not the case. Instead Christians follow local laws at the Fathers request.

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

What Does the Bible Say About Authority?

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Clare73 said:

In jail for what?

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In jail for not following local laws. As I said, all Christians follow local laws, not Gods laws.

Stoning disobedient children for example.

Clare73 said:

In jail for what?
How many laws do we have that require a Christian to sin personally?
I can't think of any.
I am required as a Christian to obey all that don't require me to sin personally, which is no law that I am aware of.

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Deuteronomy 21:18-21
“If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Leviticus 24:16
Whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him. The sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.

Being friendly to spies:

Hebrews 11
31 By faith Rahab the prostitute did not perish with those who were disobedient, because she had given a friendly welcome to the spies.

Clare73 said:

Oh, for cryin' out loud. . .
There is no law in our land requiring abortion that we are to obey.

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Clare73 said:

In jail for what?

How many laws do we have that require a Christian to sin personally?
I can't think of any.

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Just Covid-19 shots.

SkyWriting said:

In jail for not following local laws.

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What local laws would New Covenant Christians not follow because it is sin?

As I said, all Christians follow local laws, not Gods laws.

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What New Covenant laws do Christians not follow?

Stoning disobedient children for example.

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Christianity prescribes no stoning of children.

Clare73 said:

Oh, for cryin' out loud. . .
There is no law in our land requiring abortion that we are to obey. And it is God's will that we obey the authorities, unless they require one to sin personally; i.e., to disobey God.

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Mask mandates. Vaccines

SkyWriting said:

Deuteronomy 21:18-21
“If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Leviticus 24:16
Whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him. The sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.

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Christians aren't under the Mosaic law of Deuteronomy or Leviticus, they are under Christ's New Covenant law (Matthew 22:37-40).

Being friendly to spies:

Hebrews 11
31 By faith Rahab the prostitute did not perish with those who were disobedient, because she had given a friendly welcome to the spies.

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Glad you brought that up, because in addition to God's law trumping civil law for the sake of not sinning personally, there is a second important exception here.

Preservation of innocent (no crime committed) human life trumps God's laws, as seen in:
hiding from Pharaoh the male babies in the bushes and lying about it (Exodus 1:17-21),
Rahab the harlot called righteous for lying to preserve the lives of the spies (James 2:25),
Christ defending David for unlawfully eating of the showbread to preserve his life (Luke 6:3-5).

Clare73 said:

It was not illegal according to the law of the land.
He was convicted of death under Jewish law for claiming to be God (Matthew 26:62-66), and executed by the Romans, because the Romans did not allow the Jews to carry out the executions required by Jewish laws.And they didn't, because his execution was not illegal according to the law of the land.
I assume you are referring to legal authority, and not just the individual.For Christians, it is according to God's authority and law.

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Local law is God's law now.
God requests that we follow the laws of our local government.

Clare73 said:

Oh, for cryin' out loud. . .
There is no law in our land requiring abortion that we are to obey.

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Clare73 said:

I'm not talking Roe vs. Wade. I'm talking the Christian's moral authority.
As a Christian, God's law governs us.

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Local law is Gods law for man.

SkyWriting said:

Mask mandates.

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Are Christians being jailed for not wearing masks?

Keeping in mind that the Constitution is the law of this land. . .no government has authority when it acts outside Constitutional boundaries, for the government itself is then acting illegally.

ChristianForCats said:

not to fix what is causing girls and women to want or need abortions.

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Premarital sex?