Is King James onlyism a heresy?

Gregory Thompson · Feb 8, 2022

The english language is perverse in nature, as is any human language. The words of God translated from one perverse human language, and then into another is just perverted. One can only understand what God meant by it if the Holy Spirit is guiding them to understand.

Idolizing one translation is missing the mark since it is the Holy Spirit who leads us into all truth.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 8, 2022

Archivist said:
How is what the Psalmist wrote idolizing God’s Word?

I was speaking sarcastically because there are folks here who think that because KJB Only Christians revere or cherish God’s Word (the Bible) in that it is pure or perfect, we are somehow idolizing it (Which is simply not the case because the Psalmist says in Psalms 119:140 that he loves God’s word because it is very pure).

The Bible also says that God magnifies His Word above his name.

Psalms 138:2
“I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.”

A Psalmist also says that in God or in the Lord, he praises His word.

Psalms 56:10
“In God will I praise his word: in the Lord will I praise his word.”

Jesus says that his words are spirit (spiritual) and they are life.

John 6:63
“…the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”

Peter says to Jesus that He has the words of eternal life.

John 6:68
“Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.”

A Psalmist says that he rejoices at God’s Word and as if he has found great spoil (i.e. great treasure).

Psalms 119:162
“I rejoice at thy word, as one that findeth great spoil.”

But they are saying KJB Only Christians are idolizing the Bible. However, I get no indication that it is wrong to revere or cherish God’s Word.

Some may think I might idolize His Word because I may cherish His Word because I believe in a perfect Bible but their belief of accusing us of idolatry is not really taught in God’s Word. Yes, I am aware of John 5:39, but this is because the Jews were missing the point of the Scriptures in that they testified of Jesus Christ. It does not mean that we disregard God’s Word or have a low regard for the Holy Scriptures and neither does it mean we cannot revere God’s Word as pure or perfect. Jesus said, “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” (Matthew 4:4).

The Israelites were told this by God:

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes. And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.” (Deuteronomy 6:4-9).

Sounds like they were being told to have a high regard for God’s Word. The Israelites were told to write His words on how God was one and how they were to love God upon the door posts, and on their gates, etcetera. This is definitely an extreme form of uplifting God’s words. So if these kinds of actions are not idolization of God’s words then why do they erroneously think that a Christian who believes in a perfect Word is idolizing the Bible? I just do not see where they are coming from. They are not making any kind of sense. Now, I would agree that bowing down to the Bible as if it was the entirety of God Himself and ignoring that God is a spirit being would be a problem, but I don’t know of any KJB Only Christian who does that. So it sounds like they are falsely accusing KJB Only Christians or they simply do not understand what the Bible says on this matter.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 8, 2022

Archivist said:
But He didn’t say the Bible shall not pass away.

All of the Bible is Scripture, right?

Jesus said this:

“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.”
(John 5:39).

So if all of Scripture testifies of Jesus, then they are connected to Him.
In fact, there is a…

Symbiotic Relationship Between
The Living Word, & the Communicated Word:

Christ is good (John 10:11, John 10:14), and the word is good (1 Kings 2:42).
Christ is the truth (John 14:6), and the word is the truth (John 17:17).
Christ is called Faithful and True (Revelation 19:11), and the word is called faithful and true (Revelation 22:6).
Christ is pure (1 John 3:3), and the word is pure (Proverbs 30:5).
Christ is incorruptible (Acts of the Apostles 2:27), and the word is incorruptible (1 Peter 1:23).
Christ abides forever (John 12:34), and the word abides forever (1 Peter 1:23).
Christ’s name: “Jesus” is above all names (Which would include God’s name) (Philippians 2:9-10), and the word is above God’s name (Psalms 138:2).
Christ has flaming eyes of fire (Revelation 19:12), and the Word is like a fire (Jeremiah 23:29).
Christ can burn things like a fire (Matthew 3:12), and the word can burn things like a fire (Luke 24:32).
Christ can be eaten (John 6:57), and the word can be eaten (Jeremiah 15:16).
Christ is like the discovery of treasure (Matthew 13:44-46, cf. 2 Corinthians 4:7-10), and the word is like the discovery of treasure (Psalms 119:162).
Christ is the light (John 8:12), and the word is light (Psalms 119:105).
Christ is life (John 14:6, 1 John 5:12), and the word is life (John 6:63).
Christ is the living bread (John 6:51), and the word is the living bread (Matthew 4:4).
Christ is eternal life (Romans 6:23, 1 Timothy 6:16, 1 John 5:20) and the word is eternal life (John 6:68) (cf. Matthew 24:35, John 6:63).
Christ quickens (makes alive) (John 5:21), and the word quickens (makes alive) (Psalms 119:50).
It is by Christ which makes the gospel possible (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), and it is by the word which makes the gospel possible (1 Peter 1:25).
Christ is near to men (Acts of the Apostles 17:27) (Revelation 3:20) (Psalms 145:18), and the word is near to men (Romans 10:8).
Christ discerns the heart (Matthew 9:4, Luke 9:47), and the word discerns the heart (Hebrews 4:12).
Christ can get men through a storm (Mark 4:35-41), and the word can get men through a storm (Matthew 7:24-25).
Christ sanctifies (John 17:19), and the word sanctifies (John 17:17).
A person can stumble over Christ (Romans 9:33, 1 Peter 2:5-8), and a person can stumble over the word (1 Peter 2:8).
Christ will judge men (John 5:22), and the word will judge men (John 12:48).
Christ’s bones were never broken (John 19:36 cf. Psalms 34:20), and the word is never broken (John 10:35).
Believers are told to seek after Christ (Matthew 28:5, Mark 16:6), and believers are told to seek after the word (Isaiah 34:16).
Christ is our hope (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Colossians 1:27, 1 Timothy 1:1), and the word is our hope (Psalms 130:5).
Believers are to have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16), and believers are to meditate (use their mind) upon the word (Psalms 119:148, 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV).
Christ is to be heard and obeyed (Matthew 7:24), and the word is to be heard and obeyed (James 1:22).
The love of God is within Christ (Romans 8:39), and keeping the word places the love of God within us (1 John 2:5) (Also see John 14:23).
Christ is the way to the living waters, which is the Holy Spirit (John 7:37-39), and the washing of the water of the word (Ephesians 5:25-27) (which is obedience to God) is the way to having the Spirit (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).
Christ is like the foundation that is a part of a house (1 Corinthians 3:9, 1 Corinthians 3:11), and He is like a rock (1 Corinthians 10:4), and the obeying the word is like a house built upon the rock (Matthew 7:24).
Believers are to follow after the steps of Christ (1 Peter 2:21), and believers are to order their steps in the word (Psalms 119:133).
Christ breathed the Spirit upon his faithful chosen (John 20:22), and the word is “inspired by God” (i.e. God breathed) for the benefit of his faithful chosen (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
Christ is the way to having the fruits of righteousness (Philippians 1:11), and the word is the way to being instructed in righteousness so to be perfect unto all good works (fruits) (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
Christ can abide in us (John 15:4-7) (Ephesians 3:17) (Philippians 4:13), and the word can abide in us (John 15:7, Psalms 119:11).
Christ dwells in our hearts (Ephesians 3:17), and the word dwells in our hearts (Colossians 3:16).
Believers can be hidden in Christ (Colossians 3:3), and the word can be hidden in believers (Psalms 119:11).
Christ is always with us (Matthew 28:20), and the word is always with us (Psalms 119:98).
Christ can make our joy full (John 15:11), and the word can make our joy full (1 John 1:4).
Believers’ hearts rejoice with Christ (John 16:22), and believers’ hearts rejoice with the word (Jeremiah 15:16).

..41. Christ is called a seed (Galatians 3:16), and the word is called a seed (1 Peter 1:23, Luke 8:11) (Note: See my post below here for further details).

The communicated word of God that we have today is the Bible.

“So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” (Isaiah 55:11).

Jesus (the Living Word) was sent by the commandment (mouth) of the Father. Jesus said and did everything the Father told Him to do (John 12:49) (John 14:31).

What is interesting is that the Living Word accomplished that which the Father commanded Him to do and to prosper (accomplish) that thing He sent to do (i.e. Jesus suffered on the cross, and said, “It is finished” and died for man’s sins). Jesus was risen three days later, and ascended to the Father. God’s Word (the living Word) did not return void by whom the Father sent.

The communicated Word can also be sent out and not return void, as well. For many have believed and have stayed faithful to what God’s Word says.

In the creation: The Word made flesh (John 1:1, John 1:14) (i.e. Christ) created everything. In the beginning God spoke words to bring forth the creation in six days (Genesis 1:1-31).

So in the beginning was the Living Word, and the communicated Word.

In the end of this sinful world: Christ will return (Revelation 19:11-21) and a sharp sword will proceed from His mouth. This sword could be the “sword of the Spirit,” (Which is the Word of God) or it could be symbolic of such (Ephesians 6:17).

So in the end there will be the Living Word, and the communicated Word.

For at Christ’s return: His name is called The “Word of God.” (Revelation 19:13) (Living Word).

On His thigh, and vesture is a name written (words) “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.” (Communicated Word).

Jesus was beaten to a pulp and crucified on a tree.

The Word we have today (the Bible) is a result of pulp made from a tree.

Jesus was the Word made flesh (covered in skin).

The Word we have today (the Bible) is popular to be available covered in skin (leather).

Words on the page hang on this tree (paper) (the Bible),
just like the Living Word hung on a tree (the cross).

trophy33 · Feb 9, 2022

Bible Highlighter said:
Sure I did. Again, you just do not accept it.

I do not accept irrelevant, vague or misunderstood evidence, so you did not.

Bible Highlighter said:
You mean the Westcott and Hort Critical Text Greek, right?
You do realize they were heretics, right?
You do realize that their false beliefs can be seen in Modern Bibles, right?
But of course you like to bury your head in the sand to such truths.

Irrelevant for the topic. Your ad hominem attack is a logical fallacy.
Ad hominem - Wikipedia

Bible Highlighter said:
Lets not kid each other here. You don’t speak, write, and or read Biblical Greek fluently to truly know what this sentence even says in the biblical Greek.
You simply take it by faith in some scholar who has translated it for you and he could be biased to his own religious beliefs. So if this is the case, then how do you know which Greek manuscripts are the correct ones?
Not all Greek manuscripts say the same thing.

I can understand the text well. If you cant, its your problem, not mine. You can study it and verify what I said.

Bible Highlighter said:
Wow. So KJB Only Christians had influenced Time Magazine in their account of Kenneth Taylor losing his voice?

The book written by The Life of Philip Schaff that is mostly a work of his own writing is also influenced somehow by KJB Only Christians to make it appear like he lost his voice?

The autobiography of J.B. Philips (authored by himself) called the Price of Success was somehow manipulated by KJB Only Christians to make it seem that he lost his voice?

Sorry, that seems like too big of a pill for me to swallow.
In other words, from my perspective, it seems like you simply have not done your homework on this matter and you are just writing off anything KJB Only Christians bring forth as propaganda before even considering their evidence.

How is this relevant to anything? You should rather learn Greek than such silly things.

trophy33 · Feb 9, 2022

Bible Highlighter said:
You also did not prove by the context of how the warning given to us Revelation 22:18-19 somehow does not apply to Textual Criticism. How is Textual Criticism exempt for adding or removing words as a part of the warning given to us in the book of Revelation? You really did not go into detail about that. For if you are on the side of the truth here, you should have an explanation for that that is sound and logical and lines up with what the Bible says.

It seems you are confused about what textual criticism is. Both Erasmus and KJV translators did textual criticism. So your argument is like shooting yourself in the leg.

Textual criticism (TC) is comparing best copies we have available to determine what was the most probable original.

TC is not about changing the book of Revelation, its actually the opposite effort - to get rid of changes. If you like the verse, you should be the most active proponent of TC.

trophy33 · Feb 9, 2022

Bible Highlighter said:
Modern Bibles follow the corrupt text from Westcott and Hort. They based their Greek NT text off two inferior Alexandrian text type manuscripts. One was found in a Catholic vault. The other was found in the trash in an Orthodox monastery.

The Textus Receptus line of manuscripts is where the King James Bible comes from. Many of the Modern Bibles that remove verses from the King James Bible are documented or quoted by early church fathers. So this shows the Critical Text is merely not what it is cracked up to be. In fact, a simple side by side comparison of the KJB vs. Modern Bibles will tell the reader that the KJB is more superior in doctrine, and purity, etc.

Almost every sentence you wrote above is either manipulative or grossly mistaken.

Modern Bibles follow Nestlé Aland which is not based on two manuscripts, but on thousands of manuscripts. They were found in many various places.

Textus Receptus is no line of manuscripts. Its a medieval critical text based on the byzantine line of manuscripts.

Modern Bibles do not remove verses from the KJV, the KJV is still same. Modern Bibles are independent translations not related to the KJV (obviously with the exception of the NKJV).

Etc, etc. You have a habit to throw in many ideas but all are wrong. You should really get one or two good arguments instead of hundred of nonsense. Pick just one thing you deem the most important and keep discussion about it, do not jump to another one in the next minute.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 9, 2022

myst33 said:
Almost every sentence you wrote above is either manipulative or grossly mistaken.

Modern Bibles follow Nestlé Aland which is not based on two manuscripts, but on thousands of manuscripts. They were found in many various places.

I am 100% aware that Modern Bibles are now based on the Nestle and Aland text that uses various different manuscripts. Your not telling me anything new. What you fail to understand is that Nestle and Aland is a Critical Text is this Critical Text is in it’s 28th Edition. What was the 1st edition of the Critical Text? It was Westcott and Hort’s NT Greek Text that was based upon two manuscripts (Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus). Westcott and Hort’s NT Greek text was still used as a part of the Nestle and Aland Critical Text. To deny this is to deny the obvious in the fact that many of the same verses that are removed and changed between the Westcott and Hort text can also be seen with the Nestle and Aland Critical Text. For if Nestle and Aland’s Critical Text was an entirely foreign from Westcott and Hort’s Greek NT Critical Text, then the Nestle and Aland Critical Text would not be in it’s 28th edition.

You said:
Textus Receptus is no line of manuscripts. Its a medieval critical text based on byzantine line of manuscripts.

You said the TR is not a line of manuscripts and then you proceeded to say that they are a line of manuscripts. This kind of statement does not make any sense. I also aware that the TR is Byzantine text type. The Critical Text is an Alexandrian text type. What you fail to see is that Alexandria, Egypt is the origin of Arianism or Anti-Trinitarianism and yet, the Critical Text (that is from Alexandria) just so happens to remove 1 John 5:7 (Which is the one and only clearest verse on describing the Trinity).

You said:
Modern Bibles do not remove verses from the KJV, the KJV is still same. Modern Bibles are independent translations not related to the KJV (obviously with the exception of the NKJV).

If the KJB is the faithful line of manuscripts and the Modern Bibles is the corrupt line of manuscripts that came later (appearing to be older when they really are not), then Modern Bibles are indeed removing verses or words from God’s Holy and protected line of manuscripts and chosen pure or perfect translation for the world (i.e. the KJB).

You said:
Etc, etc. You throw in many ideas but all are wrong. You should really get one or two good arguments instead of hundred of nonsense.

You only see nonsense because you are looking at the facts all wrong. It’s one’s worldview that determines what one sees. I believe my worldview in that God preserved His Word is backed by many evidences that are exceptionally hard to ignore.

trophy33 · Feb 9, 2022

Bible Highlighter said:
I am 100% aware that Modern Bibles are now based on the Nestle and Aland text that uses various different manuscripts. Your not telling me anything new. What you fail to understand is that Nestle and Aland is a Critical Text is this Critical Text is in it’s 28th Edition. What was the 1st edition of the Critical Text? It was Westcott and Hort’s NT Greek Text that was based upon two manuscripts (Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus). Westcott and Hort’s NT Greek text was still used as a part of the Nestle and Aland Critical Text. To deny this is to deny the obvious in the fact that many of the same verses that are removed and changed between the Westcott and Hort text can also be seen with the Nestle and Aland Critical Text. For if Nestle and Aland’s Critical Text was an entirely foreign from Westcott and Hort’s Greek NT Critical Text, then the Nestle and Aland Critical Text would not be in it’s 28th edition.

You said the TR is not a line of manuscripts and then you proceeded to say that they are a line of manuscripts. This kind of statement does not make any sense. I also aware that the TR is Byzantine text type. The Critical Text is an Alexandrian text type. What you fail to see is that Alexandria, Egypt is the origin of Arianism or Anti-Trinitarianism and yet, the Critical Text (that is from Alexandria) just so happens to remove 1 John 5:7 (Which is the one and only clearest verse on describing the Trinity).

If the KJB is the faithful line of manuscripts and the Modern Bibles is the corrupt line of manuscripts that came later (appearing to be older when they really are not), then Modern Bibles are indeed removing verses or words from God’s Holy and protected line of manuscripts and chosen pure or perfect translation for the world (i.e. the KJB).

You only see nonsense because you are looking at the facts all wrong. It’s one’s worldview that determines what one sees. I believe my worldview in that God preserved His Word is backed by many evidences that are exceptionally hard to ignore.

Pick one thing you deem the most important and lets keep the discussion about it.

You are hiding behind the quantity of your topics, hoping nobody has enough time to correct or to go into detail about all of them. When I get to one, you immediatelly jump to another.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 9, 2022

myst33 said:
It seems you are confused about what textual criticism is. Both Erasmus and KJV translators did textual criticism. So your argument is like shooting yourself in the leg.

Modern Textual Criticism (Which was popularized with Westcott and Hort) is not about faithfully translating what the Bible says. Modern Textual Criticism today is an ever evolving text that keeps shape shifting. A new NIV will come out every few years. The Bible is like silly putty that can be changed every few years with no real regard that it is the actual words of God. Erasmus did not think in this way or take this kind of approach. I believe he was out to truly make a translation that would be settled eventually. This is not the case in Modern Textual Criticism.

You said:
Textual criticism (TC) is comparing best copies we have available to determine what was the most probable original.

Jesus said, Heaven and Earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
So there is no need to reconstruct the Word of God every few years in the hope one might get it right taking educated guesses. God’s Word has not passed away. It’s always been with us through history.

You said:
TC is not about changing the book of Revelation, its actually the opposite effort - to get rid of changes. If you like the verse, you should be the most active proponent of TC.

But who gets to decide those changes? Who gets to sit in the seat of God and determine what God said? What if the Textual Critics are wrong and they are altering the Bible? For me: Six men who worked on Modern Bibles losing their voice sounds pretty convincing to me that they were in the wrong and the KJB is the correct and pure of God for today.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 9, 2022

myst33 said:
Pick one thing you deem the most important and lets keep the discussion about it.

You are hiding behind the quantity of your topics, hoping nobody has enough time to correct or to go into detail about all of them. When I get to one, you immediatelly jump to another.

Actually, I was the one who wanted to stick to discussing Revelation 22:18-19 and you wanted to move on beyond discussing it. In Revelation 22:18-19 we can see warnings not to add or remove words. Yet, you regulate these warnings as not being applicable. I can imagine you might include this warning in Revelation as applying to the New World Translation or the LOL Cat Bible. The thing is that your regular Modern Bibles are just as gross in their distortion of the pure Word of God. I have already demonstrated this but you simply glazed over the points I made with Scripture.

Strong in Him · Feb 9, 2022

Bible Highlighter said:
But Jesus said His words shall not pass away.

They won't.

But Bibles will - simply because all things will be destroyed one day.
Anyone who has learnt verses, or passages, from the Bible will always have them - they could destroy my NIV, but no one can destroy what is in my memory and heart.

Strong in Him · Feb 9, 2022

Bible Highlighter said:
Also, what do you make of Psalms 119:140 that says the following?

“Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.” (Psalms 119:140).

In other words, maybe somebody here should warn the Psalmist that he is idolizing God’s Word.

No.
There is a big difference between loving God's word - in any translation, and a lot of Christians use several - and insisting that only the KJV is God's word.
There is a big difference between teaching, memorising, studying and applying God's word - in any translation - and spending all your time finding arguments to bolster the belief that only the KJV is inspired and true.
There is a big difference between having a strong faith in Jesus, who will never let you down, or go, and saying that unless the KJV is perfect you HAVE no faith.

Archivist · Feb 9, 2022

Bible Highlighter said:
All of the Bible is Scripture, right?

Jesus said this:

“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.”
(John 5:39).

So if all of Scripture testifies of Jesus, then they are connected to Him.
In fact, there is a…

Symbiotic Relationship Between
The Living Word, & the Communicated Word:

Christ is good (John 10:11, John 10:14), and the word is good (1 Kings 2:42).

Christ is the truth (John 14:6), and the word is the truth (John 17:17).

Christ is called Faithful and True (Revelation 19:11), and the word is called faithful and true (Revelation 22:6).

Christ is pure (1 John 3:3), and the word is pure (Proverbs 30:5).

Christ is incorruptible (Acts of the Apostles 2:27), and the word is incorruptible (1 Peter 1:23).

Christ abides forever (John 12:34), and the word abides forever (1 Peter 1:23).

Christ’s name: “Jesus” is above all names (Which would include God’s name) (Philippians 2:9-10), and the word is above God’s name (Psalms 138:2).

Christ has flaming eyes of fire (Revelation 19:12), and the Word is like a fire (Jeremiah 23:29).

Christ can burn things like a fire (Matthew 3:12), and the word can burn things like a fire (Luke 24:32).

Christ can be eaten (John 6:57), and the word can be eaten (Jeremiah 15:16).

Christ is like the discovery of treasure (Matthew 13:44-46, cf. 2 Corinthians 4:7-10), and the word is like the discovery of treasure (Psalms 119:162).

Christ is the light (John 8:12), and the word is light (Psalms 119:105).

Christ is life (John 14:6, 1 John 5:12), and the word is life (John 6:63).

Christ is the living bread (John 6:51), and the word is the living bread (Matthew 4:4).

Christ is eternal life (Romans 6:23, 1 Timothy 6:16, 1 John 5:20) and the word is eternal life (John 6:68) (cf. Matthew 24:35, John 6:63).

Christ quickens (makes alive) (John 5:21), and the word quickens (makes alive) (Psalms 119:50).

It is by Christ which makes the gospel possible (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), and it is by the word which makes the gospel possible (1 Peter 1:25).

Christ is near to men (Acts of the Apostles 17:27) (Revelation 3:20) (Psalms 145:18), and the word is near to men (Romans 10:8).

Christ discerns the heart (Matthew 9:4, Luke 9:47), and the word discerns the heart (Hebrews 4:12).

Christ can get men through a storm (Mark 4:35-41), and the word can get men through a storm (Matthew 7:24-25).

Christ sanctifies (John 17:19), and the word sanctifies (John 17:17).

A person can stumble over Christ (Romans 9:33, 1 Peter 2:5-8), and a person can stumble over the word (1 Peter 2:8).

Christ will judge men (John 5:22), and the word will judge men (John 12:48).

Christ’s bones were never broken (John 19:36 cf. Psalms 34:20), and the word is never broken (John 10:35).

Believers are told to seek after Christ (Matthew 28:5, Mark 16:6), and believers are told to seek after the word (Isaiah 34:16).

Christ is our hope (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Colossians 1:27, 1 Timothy 1:1), and the word is our hope (Psalms 130:5).

Believers are to have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16), and believers are to meditate (use their mind) upon the word (Psalms 119:148, 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV).

Christ is to be heard and obeyed (Matthew 7:24), and the word is to be heard and obeyed (James 1:22).

The love of God is within Christ (Romans 8:39), and keeping the word places the love of God within us (1 John 2:5) (Also see John 14:23).

Christ is the way to the living waters, which is the Holy Spirit (John 7:37-39), and the washing of the water of the word (Ephesians 5:25-27) (which is obedience to God) is the way to having the Spirit (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).

Christ is like the foundation that is a part of a house (1 Corinthians 3:9, 1 Corinthians 3:11), and He is like a rock (1 Corinthians 10:4), and the obeying the word is like a house built upon the rock (Matthew 7:24).

Believers are to follow after the steps of Christ (1 Peter 2:21), and believers are to order their steps in the word (Psalms 119:133).

Christ breathed the Spirit upon his faithful chosen (John 20:22), and the word is “inspired by God” (i.e. God breathed) for the benefit of his faithful chosen (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

Christ is the way to having the fruits of righteousness (Philippians 1:11), and the word is the way to being instructed in righteousness so to be perfect unto all good works (fruits) (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

Christ can abide in us (John 15:4-7) (Ephesians 3:17) (Philippians 4:13), and the word can abide in us (John 15:7, Psalms 119:11).

Christ dwells in our hearts (Ephesians 3:17), and the word dwells in our hearts (Colossians 3:16).

Believers can be hidden in Christ (Colossians 3:3), and the word can be hidden in believers (Psalms 119:11).

Christ is always with us (Matthew 28:20), and the word is always with us (Psalms 119:98).

Christ can make our joy full (John 15:11), and the word can make our joy full (1 John 1:4).

Believers’ hearts rejoice with Christ (John 16:22), and believers’ hearts rejoice with the word (Jeremiah 15:16).

..41. Christ is called a seed (Galatians 3:16), and the word is called a seed (1 Peter 1:23, Luke 8:11) (Note: See my post below here for further details).

The communicated word of God that we have today is the Bible.

“So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” (Isaiah 55:11).

Jesus (the Living Word) was sent by the commandment (mouth) of the Father. Jesus said and did everything the Father told Him to do (John 12:49) (John 14:31).

What is interesting is that the Living Word accomplished that which the Father commanded Him to do and to prosper (accomplish) that thing He sent to do (i.e. Jesus suffered on the cross, and said, “It is finished” and died for man’s sins). Jesus was risen three days later, and ascended to the Father. God’s Word (the living Word) did not return void by whom the Father sent.

The communicated Word can also be sent out and not return void, as well. For many have believed and have stayed faithful to what God’s Word says.

In the creation: The Word made flesh (John 1:1, John 1:14) (i.e. Christ) created everything. In the beginning God spoke words to bring forth the creation in six days (Genesis 1:1-31).

So in the beginning was the Living Word, and the communicated Word.

In the end of this sinful world: Christ will return (Revelation 19:11-21) and a sharp sword will proceed from His mouth. This sword could be the “sword of the Spirit,” (Which is the Word of God) or it could be symbolic of such (Ephesians 6:17).

So in the end there will be the Living Word, and the communicated Word.

For at Christ’s return: His name is called The “Word of God.” (Revelation 19:13) (Living Word).

On His thigh, and vesture is a name written (words) “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.” (Communicated Word).

Jesus was beaten to a pulp and crucified on a tree.

The Word we have today (the Bible) is a result of pulp made from a tree.

Jesus was the Word made flesh (covered in skin).

The Word we have today (the Bible) is popular to be available covered in skin (leather).

Words on the page hang on this tree (paper) (the Bible),
just like the Living Word hung on a tree (the cross).

A very long response to my one-sentence post. The Word will never pass away. The Bible will.

SamInNi · Feb 9, 2022

pescador said:
Why can't people realize that the King James Bible is nothing more than a translation?

One of the biggest problems caused by the irrationality of Onlyism is giving it oxygen.

No matter what way evidence is presented to show that the discipline of textual criticism can have no direct impact on our faith in Christ and the overall reliability of scriptural doctrine, the most vocal Onlyists will continue to deny that the KJV "is nothing more than a translation". That's what's happening in this thread.

When fair argumentation gets swamped by a flood of obsessive beliefs and a headstrong bias it's usually time to consider walking away.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 9, 2022

Archivist said:
A very long response to my one-sentence post. The Word will never pass away. The Bible will.

The point was for you to actually read the verses in order to let the truth of the God’s Word (the Bible) sink in. However, it seems like you are not all that excited to read God’s Word which I believe is a greater problem.

Anyways, you believe the Bible will pass away.

What is the Bible?
It’s Scripture, right?

2 Timothy 3:16-17
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.”

Scripture is given by inspiration of God.
So the words in your Bible are inspired by God and thus they are the very words of God.
In fact, the apostle Paul tells the Thessalonian believers that they received the words of Paul and the other apostles that they preached audibly as the very words of God and not as the words of men.

“For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.” (1 Thessalonians 2:13).

Audible or written should not change anything. God’s words can be received as the very words of God. Paul even says that what he writes should be regarded as the Lord’s commandments (See: 1 Corinthians 14:37).

So according to you, the Bible (God’s words) will pass away.
But the Bible says this:

“For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.”
(Psalms 119:89).

Jesus says,
“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” (Matthew 24:35).

1 Peter 1:23-25
“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”

Context shows us this is the communicated Word of God and not the Living Word of God in this particular instance in the Bible.

1 Peter 2:2
“As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:”

Bible Highlighter · Feb 9, 2022

Archivist said:
A very long response to my one-sentence post. The Word will never pass away. The Bible will.

The long post is Scripture. Jesus said man shall not live by bread alone but by every word of God. So my encouragement to you is to eat of God’s Word. For man shall not live by bread alone.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 9, 2022

SamInNi said:
One of the biggest problems caused by the irrationality of Onlyism is giving it oxygen.

Right, I agree that this would be the case for Originals Onlyism.

You said:
No matter what way evidence is presented to show that the discipline of textual criticism can have no direct impact on our faith in Christ and the overall reliability of scriptural doctrine, the most vocal Onlyists will continue to deny that the KJV "is nothing more than a translation". That's what's happening in this thread.

When fair argumentation gets swamped by a flood of obsessive beliefs and a headstrong bias it's usually time to consider walking away.

Actually, I believe the opposite is true. I have presented many evidences and proves in God’s Word for the KJB being the perfect Word for today and these points go ignored. At the very least, the KJB is the most trustworthy Bible in the English language. I would be okay with folks believing even that. For the alternative is worse because Modern Bibles CLEARLY beyond a shadow of a doubt come from corrupt origins (Westcott and Hort and the corrupted Alexandrian manuscripts), and they have corrupt doctrines, and they make Jesus appear to sin, and they place the devil’s name within them where they do not belong, etcetera. Folks just do not want to hear it. They are in too deep into Textual Criticism to get out. It has sucked them in. When they read verses like Psalms 12:6-7 in the King James Bible or 1 Peter 1:23-25, part of these words are snatched away out of their heart and they cannot take root because they are in disbelief of these words in part to begin with. A preconceived belief from the religion of Textual Criticism will not allow them to believe these words in Scripture (unless of course they are a real truth seeker - of which in time God will reveal such a truth to them if they are open and honest in seeking the truth in it’s proper due time).

Archivist · Feb 9, 2022

Bible Highlighter said:
The point was for you to actually read the verses in order to let the truth of the God’s Word (the Bible) sink in. However, it seems like you are not all that excited to read God’s Word which I believe is a greater problem.

Anyways, you believe the Bible will pass away.

What is the Bible?
It’s Scripture, right?

2 Timothy 3:16-17
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.”

Scripture is given by inspiration of God.
So the words in your Bible are inspired by God and thus they are the very words of God.
In fact, the apostle Paul tells the Thessalonian believers that they received the words of Paul and the other apostles that they preached audibly as the very words of God and not as the words of men.

“For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.” (1 Thessalonians 2:13).

Audible or written should not change anything. God’s words can be received as the very words of God. Paul even says that what he writes should be regarded as the Lord’s commandments (See: 1 Corinthians 14:37).

So according to you, the Bible (God’s words) will pass away.
But the Bible says this:

“For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.”
(Psalms 119:89).

Jesus says,
“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” (Matthew 24:35).

1 Peter 1:23-25
“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”

Context shows us this is the communicated Word of God and not the Living Word of God in this particular instance in the Bible.

1 Peter 2:2
“As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:”

And, again, God’s word will never pass away. The Bible will. Those are two different things.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 9, 2022

myst33 said:
Pick one thing you deem the most important and lets keep the discussion about it.

You are hiding behind the quantity of your topics, hoping nobody has enough time to correct or to go into detail about all of them. When I get to one, you immediatelly jump to another.

But truth is not as you establish it. You don’t make the rules of how things actually are. You believe it is weakness to use multiple points to establish a truth. But if we are to follow this flawed sense of reasoning you would have to reject even truths within Science even. But if what you say is true on this matter, then you need to prove your case with the Bible that this is so.

You also need to prove that Textual Criticism is exempt of the warning found in Revelation 22:18-19 when Modern Bibles take away and add words to the Bible (Which clearly are corruptions when compared to the trusty KJB). For Modern Textual Critics create a new NIV every few years. They add and remove words to maintain the copyrights and to make more money. For them, it’s a business and it’s not about helping people to understand God’s Word better.

YeshuaFan · Feb 9, 2022

Bible Highlighter said:
If the KJB is nothing more than a translation, then where is the perfect Word of God for today?
If you don’t have a perfect Bible, what makes you believe you have the correct doctrines?
How can you tell the difference between false and true doctrines if no Bible is perfect today?

No offense, but this sounds more like mindless pitchfork mob name calling then it has to do with any intelligent biblical and historical evidential case to prove your side is the way of the truth.

I have already demonstrated that doctrines have been changed when Modern Bibles appeared on to the scene after the KJB has already been established for hundreds of years.

1. Doctrine of The Trinity is Effected; For the Only Verse (1 John 5:7) That Point Blank Tells Us About the Trinity is Removed:
If I was on an island, and I had no clue about Christianity, the odds of my understanding the Trinity is better if I had a King James bible vs. a Modern Translation bible that removes this valuable truth on knowing the Trinity. So this proves that Modern Translations are less helpful for me to understand the Trinity by using the Bible alone.

#2. The Doctrine of Fasting So As To Cast Out Persistent Demons is Removed:
Matthew 17:21 that tells us that casting out persistent or really strong devils is by prayer and fasting. Yet, Matthew 17:21 is oddly removed in Modern Translations. Mark 9:29 mentions that you can pray to remove these kinds of devils, but it does not mention fasting. So the key doctrine of fasting so as to cast out really strong demons is gone. So the enemy wins if a person only adheres to the Modern Translations and they have a hate on for the KJV. For if you ever encountered strong demonic activity like this before, you know that fasting does actually help greatly, and not just prayer alone.

#3. The Full Version of the Doctrine on Having "No Condemnation" According to Romans 8:1 is Removed:
Romans 8:1 says, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Modern Translations leave out the part that says, "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." The KJV says, as a part of having no Condemnation: We have to (a) Be in Christ Jesus, AND: (b) Walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. The enemy wants Christians today to justify sin instead of battling against it. So the enemy will do everything he can to give a person a water down version on His holy Word to promote the idea that they do not need to worry about sin destroying their soul.

#4. In Genesis 3:16, the ESV (Which is one of the most popular Modern Translations) Doctrinally Changes the Nature of the Truth in the KJV by Saying that Eve's (the wife's)Desire is Contrary To Her Husband.

#5. Philippians 2:7 Changes Doctrine by Removing an Aspect of the Deity of Christ During His Earthly Ministry.
Philippians 2:6-7 says correctly,

6 “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:” (Philippians 2:6-7).

King James correctly says that Christ made himself of no reputation.

Various different Modern Translations say that He “emptied himself,” and the NLT says that, “he gave up his divine privileges;” (Philippians 2:7). This is false and it is a denial of the deity of Christ. God cannot cease to become God. God cannot cut out an aspect of who He is at His core in having divine power and yet still be God. That would be a contradiction. The Modern Translations are teaching a gnostic heresy in denying that Jesus has power as God. Granted, Jesus had grown in wisdom (See: Luke 2:52), but I believe this was not an elimination of His divine powers as God, but it was a suppression of them (See: John 17:5, Habakkuk 2:14). For Jesus needed to be a like figure or type of Adam; For Adam also was limited in knowledge when He was in a right relationship with God before the Fall (See: 1 Corinthians 15:45-47). However, Jesus clearly had power as God as a man before the cross. For...

Jesus had power as God:
(during his earthly ministry):

#1. Jesus said He has power to raise the dead to life just as the Father had power to raise the dead (John 5:21).
#2. Hebrews 1:3 talks about how Christ held all things together by the word of His power when He purged us of our sins.
#3. Jesus said, He would raise up this Temple (His body) three days later (John 2:19).
#4. Jesus had the power to forgive sins and give eternal life (Mark 2:7) (Luke 7:44-50) (John 14:6).
#5 Jesus had power to take away the sins of the entire world (John 1:29).
#6. Jesus Christ said wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them (Matthew 18:20). This was said to the people he was around and not to just us today.
#7. Jesus knew men's thoughts (Matthew 9:4) (Matthew 12:25) (Mark 2:8) (Luke 5:22) (Luke 6:8) (Luke 9:47) (Luke 24:38).
#8. Jesus knew about the lives of others (John 2:24) (John 4:17-18) (John 4:29) (John 6:64).

So Modern Translations are wrong. In fact, many Christians today think Jesus gave up His divine powers; This is because of the wrong teaching (or wrong doctrine) behind Modern Translations. To make matters worse, Modern Bibles place the devil’s name in the Bible where it does not belong (See here to learn more). Modern Bibles make Jesus appear to sin (See here). There are the dark origins of Modern Bibles, etcetera. To ignore these things is to ignore the obvious glaring problems with Modern Bibles because one simply does not want to see such problems.

There has NEVER been in the history until the coming of Kjvo that ANY held to there being any translation that was perfect, nor any requirements for there to be a perfect English translation!

Is King James onlyism a heresy?

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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