Question on the Holy Spirit and Biblical Interpretation

hedrick · Jan 26, 2022

I can only speak for the mainline tradition.*

The mainline churches largely follow the traditional Anglican three-legged stool: Scripture, reason, and tradition.

We do theology in a community, and pay attention to the past, so we do honor tradition. We do believe that the Spirit guides the Church.

We believe that God revealed himself in history, of which Scripture is our primary witness. So our community is guided by Scripture.

But unlike the Catholic tradition, we realize that traditions can err, or situations can change. Often changes happen because of new Scriptural scholarship, but sometimes also because of scientific or historical discoveries. Hence reason.

I would say that the mainline churches maintain a reasonably coherent tradition. We don’t agree on all subjects, but there’s still pretty obviously a single theological community. In many areas we share this community with modern Catholicism. The main differences lie in areas where the Catholic commitment to inerrant tradition cause them to hold on to things that we think they would be better off to change.

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* Mainline is probably an American term. See Mainline Protestant - Wikipedia

concretecamper · Jan 26, 2022

Maria Billingsley said:
The Holy Spirit will always lead us into truth if we ask Him and are open to His direction.

So is @Randy777 correct or not?

Randy777 said:
Some hold to a pretribulation rapture. I do NOT.

I bet you randy thinks randy is correct amd others are wrong. Who decides who is correct?

SkyWriting · Jan 26, 2022

Original Happy Camper said:
I do not believe as you do and I do not believe you can support your position from the word of GOD

Belief always conquers the facts. Your belief is strong.

The word of God is not required.

Romans 1:20
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Romans 1:19
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.

Isaiah 40:26
Lift up your eyes on high and see: who created these? He who brings out their host by number, calling them all by name, by the greatness of his might, and because he is strong in power not one is missing.

Psalm 19:1-6
To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. Day to day pours out speech, and night to night reveals knowledge. There is no speech, nor are there words, whose voice is not heard. Their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun, which comes out like a bridegroom leaving his chamber, and, like a strong man, runs its course with joy.

Psalm 33:6-9
By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, and by the breath of his mouth all their host. He gathers the waters of the sea as a heap; he puts the deeps in storehouses. Let all the earth fear the Lord; let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him! For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood firm.

Psalm 8:3
When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place,

Romans 2:15
They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them

But as to local law given priority over biblical law:

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

fhansen · Jan 26, 2022

aspie3000 said:
This is mainly for protestants as the High Church folk believe that the Spirit guides their church hierarchy into all truth rather than the individual. What I do not understand and would like a well-reasoned answer to is that if the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth then why do two genuinely Spirit-filled believers come to differing interpretations of the Bible and theology? Related to this, why do genuinely Spirit-filled believers seem to come to interpretations that are objectively wrong? How does the Holy Spirit guide believers into truth and what role do reason, study, and Biblical scholarship play in all of this?

As a former Protestant, this is why I can no longer hold to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura.

Randy777 · Jan 27, 2022

concretecamper said:
So is @Randy777 correct or not?

I bet you randy thinks randy is correct amd others are wrong. Who decides who is correct?

In regard to the rapture I only gave it as an example of differences in theology held. Not as a debate on who is right. I do now state I have the Spirit of Christ in me. I have loved and believed in Jesus as far back as my memory goes as my Christian mother steered me to Christ from my beginning.
Of course since I already stated I don't hold to a pretrib rapture that's what I believe. The saints will have to endure the reign of the beast.

Maria Billingsley · Jan 27, 2022

concretecamper said:
So is @Randy777 correct or not?

I bet you randy thinks randy is correct amd others are wrong. Who decides who is correct?

I was a pretriber for years until the Holy Spirit showed me the errors. He now directs me to like minded Christians. Being led out of error is exactly what the Holy Spirit does for us. Some heed to His direction, some struggle with His direction and some reject His direction. Nevertheless, His direction is always in truth.
Blessings

concretecamper · Jan 27, 2022

Maria Billingsley said:
I was a pretriber for years until the Holy Spirit showed me the errors. He now directs me to like minded Christians. Being led out of error is exactly what the Holy Spirit does for us. Some heed to His direction, some struggle with His direction and some reject His direction. Nevertheless, His direction is always in truth.
Blessings

hmm, maybe the Holy Spirit is saying something else and you are not listening. Maybe being a pretriber is correct.

That's the problem with Sola Scriptura, there is no way to tell whether it is the Holy Spirit guiding you. Oh well. Good luck anyways.

Maria Billingsley · Jan 27, 2022

concretecamper said:
hmm, maybe the Holy Spirit is saying something else and you are not listening. Maybe being a pretriber is correct.

That's the problem with Sola Scriptura, there is no way to tell whether it is the Holy Spirit guiding you. Oh well. Good luck anyways.

What you are missing here is it is also not in scripture. It is a theological system invented by a man. John Nelson Darby. It was quite easy to find the truth once the lens of Dispensationalism was taken off.

concretecamper · Jan 27, 2022

Maria Billingsley said:
What you are missing here is it is also not in scripture. It is a theological system invented by a man. John Nelson Darby. It was quite easy to find the truth once the lens of Dispensationalism was taken off.

thank you for your opinion.

Maria Billingsley · Jan 27, 2022

concretecamper said:
thank you for your opinion.

It is not my opinion, it is a promise from Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Thanks for engaging !
John 14:15
"If you love me, you will do as I command. 16 Then I will ask the Father to send you the Holy Spirit who will help you and always be with you. 17 The Spirit will show you what is true. The people of this world cannot accept the Spirit, because they don’t see or know him. But you know the Spirit, who is with you and will keep on living in you."

concretecamper · Jan 27, 2022

Maria Billingsley said:
It is not my opinion, it is a promise from Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Thanks for engaging !

you are welcome. Great thing about being your own authority, you can interpret scripture anyway you would like, and you are always the one guided by the Holy Spirit!

Maria Billingsley · Jan 27, 2022

concretecamper said:
you are welcome. Great thing about being your own authority, you can interpret scripture anyway you would like, and you are always the one guided by the Holy Spirit!

I'm not sure why you are trying to pick a fight with me. It is not my authority. It is the authority of Jesus Christ of Nazareth through His Holy Spirit. This is His promise.

Randy777 · Jan 27, 2022

concretecamper said:
you are welcome. Great thing about being your own authority, you can interpret scripture anyway you would like, and you are always the one guided by the Holy Spirit!

And what is your interpretation of the Lords parable of the weeds and wheat growing up together until the harvest as spoken of in Matt 13 that is the parable of the weeds?

Albion · Jan 27, 2022

Maria Billingsley said:
It is the authority of Jesus Christ of Nazareth through His Holy Spirit. This is His promise.

Just a quick word of caution here. The Holy Spirit is one of three persons of the Holy Trinity along with the Father and the Son. He is not the spirit of Jesus.

BobRyan · Jan 27, 2022

Albion said:
Just a quick word of caution here. The Holy Spirit is one of three persons of the Holy Trinity along with the Father and the Son. He is not the spirit of Jesus.

In 1 Pet 1 the third person of the Godhead is in fact referred to as "the Spirit of Christ"

BobRyan · Jan 27, 2022

concretecamper said:
you are welcome. Great thing about being your own authority, you can interpret scripture anyway you would like, and you are always the one guided by the Holy Spirit!

Doesn't your response "delete" the work of the Holy Spirit from someone's life when you say "your own authority"??

BobRyan · Jan 27, 2022

concretecamper said:
hmm, maybe the Holy Spirit is saying something else and you are not listening.

Always a possibility for everyone.

And plenty of examples of "differences" even for NT saints

BobRyan said:
Many examples of disagreements in the NT and in almost all of them no supposedly infallible church council meets to decide the matter.

John 16:
“These things I have spoken to you so that you will not be led into sin. 2 They will ban you from the synagogue, yet an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering a service to God.

Phil 3:4 although I myself could boast as having confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he is confident in the flesh, I have more reason: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

Matt 16:
21 From that time Jesus began to point out to His disciples that it was necessary for Him to go to Jerusalem and to suffer many things from the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and to be killed, and to be raised up on the third day. 22 And yet Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “God forbid it, Lord! This shall never happen to You!” 23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s purposes, but men’s.”

Acts 15:
36 After some days Paul said to Barnabas, “Let’s return and visit the brothers and sisters in every city in which we proclaimed the word of the Lord, and see how they are.” 37 Barnabas wanted to take John, called Mark, along with them also. 38 But Paul was of the opinion that they should not take along with them this man who had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not gone with them to the work. 39 Now it turned into such a sharp disagreement that they separated from one another, and Barnabas took Mark with him and sailed away to Cyprus. 40 But Paul chose Silas, and left after being entrusted by the brothers to the grace of the Lord. 41 And he was traveling through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.

Gal 2:11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For prior to the coming of some men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and separate himself, fearing those from the circumcision. 13 The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy.

==========================

Christ slam-hammers the supposedly infallible nation-church tradition and councils of his day - this way

Mark 7:
6 But He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy about you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 And in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother, is certainly to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a person says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is, given to God),’ 12 you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thereby invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

============================

Acts 15 is a great example of a church council ordained by God that does settle a sharp dispute in the church - but as we see in the examples above - that is not how they all are settled -- in many cases we see one person involved in the correction rather than an entire church council and that includes one person in Mark 7 hammering nation-church tradition.

Maria Billingsley · Jan 27, 2022

Albion said:
Just a quick word of caution here. The Holy Spirit is one of three persons of the Holy Trinity along with the Father and the Son. He is not the spirit of Jesus.

Caution ? The Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of Jesus Christ of Nazareth?
Here is scripture describing Him. Thanks for engaging!
Isaiah 9
6For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Albion · Jan 27, 2022

Maria Billingsley said:
Caution ? The Holy Spirit is not the Spirit if Jesus Christ of Nazareth?

He is another person of the Trinity, not the soul or spirit or force of one of the other persons of the Trinity.

Here is scripture describing Him. Thanks for engaging!

You're welcome...and thank you.

Here are verses that should be helpful:

John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

John 16:7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.

John 15:26 But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,

Randy777 · Jan 27, 2022

Maria Billingsley said:
Caution ? The Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of Jesus Christ of Nazareth?
Here is scripture describing Him. Thanks for engaging!
Isaiah 9
6For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Regardless the Spirit conveys to us only what He hears. Elsewhere it is written the Spirit of God searches the deep thoughts of God.
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

Jesus is the head of the body of Christ so I think these are His words as in the Spirit spoke what He heard from the will of the mind of Christ Jesus.
While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them

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