Does the bible indicate an old earth?

Saywhat1

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Some people claim the bible speaks of an old earth. I have never seen anything that does this. Maybe someone who thinks it does can defend the concept.

For example Adam was created on day 6 of creation week. So was Eve, from His rib. How long do you think God takes to do an operation?
 

ewq1938

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Some people claim the bible speaks of an old earth. I have never seen anything that does this. Maybe someone who thinks it does can defend the concept.


Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The issue here is whether verse 2 happens immediately after verse one or was there an unknown amount of time?

The text does not state whether there is or isn't a gap of time. We simply cannot assume that verse two took place immediately after verse one and that is the case for a great deal of scriptures throughout the bible.




The idea of a gap of time in scripture is proven in the example of the reading of scriptures by Christ concerning his first and second comings. A gap is found in the middle of a verse but is not apparent in the casual reading of that verse yet a gap is there.

Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luke 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luke 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.


He stopped reading the entire verse because there would be a gap between the first part and the last part so a gap between the first 69 years and the 70th is not a new concept.


Isaiah 61:2. To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, (((GAP IS HERE))) and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn

If a gap is found right there in the midst of a verse then can anyone say it is impossible for a gap of time to be here:


Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

(((GAP OF UNKNOWN TIME LENGTH HERE)))

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/strongs/1143160133-2504.html


Also, the Hebrew word for "was" without form is hayah and the tense that the verb is Qal which means "to become". Therefore the verse actually says "And the earth BECAME without form, and void;" meaning that God originally created the earth complete and that at some point it BECAME void and without form. Some form of destruction took place which strengthens the "gap theory".


01961 hayah {haw-yaw}
a primitive root [compare 01933]; TWOT - 491; v
AV - was, come to pass, came, has been, were happened, become,
pertained, better for thee; 75
1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out
1a) (Qal)
1a1) -----
1a1a) to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about,
come to pass

1a1b) to come about, come to pass
1a2) to come into being, become
1a2a) to arise, appear, come
1a2b) to become
1a2b1) to become
1a2b2) to become like
1a2b3) to be instituted, be established
1a3) to be
1a3a) to exist, be in existence
1a3b) to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time)
1a3c) to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word
of locality)
1a3d) to accompany, be with
1b)
(Niphal)
1b1) to occur, come to pass, be done, be brought about
1b2) to be done, be finished, be gone


In addition, the "mood" of the verb is "perfect" (the Hebrew equivalent of past tense) and it affects the meaning in this way: "The Perfect expresses a completed action." This means that the earth was not created void but indeed BECAME void in an action that is completed by the second verse of Genesis.


So, according to the rules of Hebrew verb tenses, it is not "was void" as if it was made that way but it "became void" as the voidness "came into being".


Genesis 1:2 And the earth [BECAME] without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


Scripture has a second witness of this truth:



Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

God did not create the earth void and without form as Genesis is thought to state. God destroyed the world and then recreated everything within it and that's what we read and see in the Genesis account. This is also why scientific evidence that God left behind affirms that the earth is much older than 6000-7000 years.




Zec 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

Verse 9 shows the first arrival of the Messiah

(((GAP OF UNKNOWN TIME LENGTH HERE)))

Zec 9:10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.

And verse 10 shows the second advent. As of this century there is a gap of time between those two events that is about 2000 plus years and growing daily until he does in fact return.


Verse 9 was fulfilled here:

Mat 21:4 All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
Mat 21:5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.
Mat 21:6 And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them,
Mat 21:7 And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon.


Verse 10 won't be fulfilled until the second coming but the OT scriptures do not explain there is a gap of time but we know that there is.


Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: (((GAP OF UNKNOWN TIME LENGTH HERE))) and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Here again is a gap of time within verse 6. Jesus is born, and then there is an unknown period of time before "the government shall be upon his shoulder" and "the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever" which naturally is completed at the second coming or even the eternity after judgement day.





Mat 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
Mat 4:12 Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee;

How much time passed between the angels ministering unto Christ and when he heard about John being imprisoned?

Mar_1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

According to Mark, John was in prison before Jesus returned to Galilee from being tempted in the wilderness so there is an unspoken gap of time between Matthew 4:11 and 4:12
 
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Saywhat1

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Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The issue here is whether verse 2 happens immediately after verse one or was there an unknown amount of time?
Thanks for the long post. Don't have time for it all now.

So why latch onto that verse to consider if billions of years went by in between? Could you not do that with many verses?

The text does not state whether there is or isn't a gap of time. We simply cannot assume that verse two took place immediately after verse one and that is the case for a great deal of scriptures throughout the bible.

Why not? There is no reason given to assume anything else. Why would we assume that God took a billion years operating on Adam? After all it doesn't say how long. There are reasons, such as that we know it was six days that all was done in, so it is simple reason to say that the day Adam had his operation was just a day. Also, how long can a guy sleep?
 
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ewq1938

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So why latch onto that verse to consider if billions of years went by in between? Could you not do that with many verses?

I don't understand what you are saying.

Why not? There is no reason given to assume anything else. Why would we assume that God took a billion years operating on Adam? After all it doesn't say how long.

That's not the same thing at all. No one is saying God is slow in creating or changing things. What I am saying is scripture is well known for speaking of two things with large periods of time between the two things. This is about two things being done with lots of time inbetween not one thing taking a long time.
 
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AV1611VET

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That's not the same thing at all. No one is saying God is slow in creating or changing things. What I am saying is scripture is well known for speaking of two things with large periods of time between the two things. This is about two things being done with lots of time inbetween not one thing taking a long time.
How is it God created the earth in 13,700,000,000 BC, then the sun in 4004 BC, when science says the sun came before the earth?
 
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ewq1938

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How is it God created the earth in 13,700,000,000 BC, then the sun in 4004 BC, when science says the sun came before the earth?


That's a question for science people that believe such a thing.
 
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SkyWriting

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Some people claim the bible speaks of an old earth. I have never seen anything that does this. Maybe someone who thinks it does can defend the concept.

For example Adam was created on day 6 of creation week. So was Eve, from His rib. How long do you think God takes to do an operation?

Humans have been negging for a long time.
But God re-made man into His image starting with Adam.
Scripture says the earth is ancient and almost everlasting.
(It does say "everlasting" if you wish to take the Bible literally.)
But I don't take the Bible literally when it says the earth is everlasting.
 
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SkyWriting

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How is it God created the earth in 13,700,000,000 BC, then the sun in 4004 BC, when science says the sun came before the earth?
History is written by the conquerors.
 
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Halbhh

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Some people claim the bible speaks of an old earth. I have never seen anything that does this.

It's a maybe, and before you read those 2 verses below, a key thing to consider first --

Scripture doesn't focus on the trivial - things that just don't matter.

It doesn't matter for God and for our souls precisely the exact age of the Earth -- whether 15 seconds or 30 trillion years: time is not a controller of God, and would not affect God or His actions.

But it could be a hazard to us to know the exact age, since it would potentially some day prevent an opportunity to have faith, which must begin as belief without seeing, without proof. (see Hebrews 11:1)

"Now faith is assurance of [things] hoped for, a conviction of things not seen."

So, if the Bible had given an exact age of Earth (to within even 1% accuracy for instance), then once we finally figured out the age, we'd have outright clear proof of God, and no new convert would have a chance then to have that trust God wants from us -- to have the faith that God wants.

So, there are 2 good reasons scripture doesn't say the age of the Earth.

Instead, we only read in scripture that the Earth is very ancient, indirectly:

Deuteronomy 33:15 with the best of the ancient mountains and the bounty of the everlasting hills,

Habakkuk 3:6 He stood and measured the earth; He looked and startled the nations; the ancient mountains crumbled; the perpetual hills collapsed. His ways are everlasting.

So, we don't get the faith-endangering knowledge of some exact age for Earth, but instead that age is never addressed in scripture.

Also, it will be best for you to know there is no bible verse saying this theory either: "Adam was created on day 6 of creation week." -- that's only one of several speculative ideas that people have. There isn't a clear verse saying precisely when Adam was made (whether concurrently with the other humans on the 6th day, or instead in a special time later, or even in a timeless place (God can do anything, and isn't controlled by 'time'), but instead only we read he was the first with a God-breathed spirit (in the Bible, wind or breath from God signifies Spirit, we see throughout).

That makes Adam the first human with a God given soul, accountable to God.

He was not we'd suppose the same for instance as the Neanderthals, or such other human types, perhaps including modern humans, who in Genesis chapter 1 already were to spread upon the Earth, regardless of when God would put the first God-given spirit into an individual, making the first soul, and beginning us -- those with souls accountable to God.
 
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SkyWriting

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Some people claim the bible speaks of an old earth. I have never seen anything that does this. Maybe someone who thinks it does can defend the concept.

For example Adam was created on day 6 of creation week. So was Eve, from His rib. How long do you think God takes to do an operation?

The concept is Bible literacy. Do we believe what it simply says? Or do we know better? Translation error?

Genesis 49:26
The blessings of your father are mighty beyond the blessings of my parents, up to the bounties of the
everlasting hills. May they be on the head of Joseph, and on the brow of him who was set apart from his brothers.

Deuteronomy 33:15-16
with the finest produce of the
ancient mountains and the abundance of the
everlasting hills, with the best gifts of the earth and its fullness and the favor of him who dwells in the bush. May these rest on the head of Joseph, on the pate of him who is prince among his brothers.

Habakkuk 3:6
He stood and measured the earth; he looked and shook the nations; then the
eternal mountains were scattered; the
everlasting hills sank low. His were the
everlasting ways.
 
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SkyWriting

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Sun Yat-sen?
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Saywhat1

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I don't understand what you are saying.
I am saying what makes you say great time probably elapsed between Gen 1:1 and 1:2? Why not great time elapsing between Gen 2.9 and 2:10 or any other verse in Genesis or the rest of the bible?

That's not the same thing at all. No one is saying God is slow in creating or changing things. What I am saying is scripture is well known for speaking of two things with large periods of time between the two things. This is about two things being done with lots of time inbetween not one thing taking a long time.
Says who? You made that up, inserted it randomly. The bible does not say or indicate great time anywhere in creation week.
 
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d taylor

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The creation is the same age today as it was the moment God created it. Earth (means land/ground in The Bible and not a stupid globe) is like water, ageless.

It is that people have allowed science to take over God's creation and make people believe in ideas that are not Biblical and truth. From God's creation having an age, to all the other lies science has convenience people to believe is truth about God's creation.
 
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Saywhat1

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Humans have been negging for a long time.
But God re-made man into His image starting with Adam.
Scripture says the earth is ancient and almost everlasting.
(It does say "everlasting" if you wish to take the Bible literally.)
But I don't take the Bible literally when it says the earth is everlasting.
Re made man? The first man was not really the first man and Eve not really the mother of all then?

I do take it that the earth is everlasting. God will be moving here, He doesn't do temporary so much.
 
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SkyWriting

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Re made man? The first man was not really the first man and Eve not really the mother of all then?

I do take it that the earth is everlasting. God will be moving here, He doesn't do temporary so much.

God doesn't count the early man any more than a Zebra. Early man cannot be saved by Jesus.
Adam was the first man re-made into God's image.
Or "Adam" means all of mankind was remade because that's what "Adam" means.
But I'll go with just one for now.
 
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