Is the Lord's Day Saturday according to Acts of John (Apocryphal)?

Danthemailman · Jan 25, 2022

BobRyan said:
because "bazillion" is not quite "often enough"

One of the early SDAs has often been quoted this way --
"No one has yet received the mark of the beast. The testing time has not yet come. There are true Christians in every church, not excepting the Roman Catholic communion." . {Ev 234.2}

So what is the identifying mark of a true Christian according to you? There are genuine Christians and there are “nominal” Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers in various churches.

Carl Emerson · Jan 25, 2022

BobRyan said:
well you don't quote anyone in your post - to single out who you are talking to and at least one person here said "they don't respond" so I assumed more than one person is being referenced.

I could be mistaken.

I am happy to wait and see what LGW thinks of my post in that regard #137

You might very well be a more moderate voice.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 25, 2022

MMXX said:
You're still answering my question with questions.

Your still avoiding my questions and the answers provided by scripture to your questions. Sorry I cannot help you (See post # 110 linked; post 114 linked and post # 115 linked). Perhaps you can pray about it.

Take Care Brian.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 25, 2022

No. The thread title says .. Is the Lord's Day Saturday according to Acts of John (Apocryphal)? These so called "Church fathers" are not scripture and many of them in my view if they teach tradition over the scriptures they have no weight with me if your trying to put them before Gods' Word. My claim would simply be where is the scriptures that teach "Sunday" is "the Lords day"? - There is none.

Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of some in the early Church (many continued keeping the Sabbath) that has led many away from God and His Word to break God's 4th commandment. Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9 says that if we knowingly follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God. If we are not worshiping God by breaking Gods' commandments through tradition who are we worshiping God or man? This is the test that will becoming to everyone of us.

God's people according to the scriptures I believe are in every Church (John 10:16) and in times of ignorance when we do not know any better God winks at but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word calls all men every where to believe and follow it (Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17; Hebrews 10:26-31). Jesus says that the hour is coming and now is that the true worshipers wherever they might be must worship the father in Spirit and in truth for God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth (Mark 4:23-24).

BABYLON has fallen *Revelation 14:7-12; Revelation 17:1-5 and God is calling His people out from following man made teachings and traditions to return to the pure Word of God *Revelation 18:1-5. According to Jesus, God's sheep will hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear will not follow because they are not His sheep (John 10:26-27).

Jesus is calling us back to His Word. "Fear God therefore and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." - Revelation 14:7. God's 4th commandment "seventh day" Sabbath *Exodus 20:8-11 is one of Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken according to Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and according to James if we knowingly break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11.

Take Care

Your response here...

Leaf473 said:
The thread title refers to the Acts of John.

(Everyone is welcome to answer the questions below.)

I think people who lived close to the time of the apostles can provide us with valuable insights about their language and practices, don't you?

If so, do you think the writer of the Acts of John is referring to the seventh day of the week or the seventh day of the fast? Do you think the writer continued keeping the Sabbath, as you say above?

Your did not address anything in the post you were quoting from but yes the Acts of John is apocryphal and not on the same level as scripture. So it is just another unknown source outside of the bible.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 25, 2022

Danthemailman said:
Even though they are reluctant to answer the question we already know their answer to the question.

The question was clearly answered with scripture. See post # 110 linked; post 114 linked and post # 115 linked? What is your answer to the questions and scriptures that provide the answer to the questions asked? "Is someone in a saved state with God or an unsaved state with God if they choose to reject Gods' Word and continue in a life of known unrepentant sin after God gives them a knowledge of the truth of His Word? Are they the many that are called or the few that are chosen? Here are some scriptures to help you with your study of God's Word *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-31; 1 John 2:3-4; Matthew 7:21-23; 1 John 3:6-9.

Hope this is helpful to you.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 25, 2022

MMXX said:
There's always ways of clearly saying something without saying it directly. I think most would read what is being said as saying, you're not saved if you don't keep the Saturday sabbath.

And what do the scriptures say? (See post # 110 linked; post 114 linked and post # 115 linked). Here are some further supporting scriptures that might be helpful in your study provided here *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-31; 1 John 2:3-4; Matthew 7:21-23; 1 John 3:6-9.

Take Care.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 25, 2022

BobRyan said:
well you don't quote anyone in your post - to single out who you are talking to and at least one person here said "they don't respond" so I assumed more than one person is being referenced.

I could be mistaken.

I am happy to wait and see what LGW thinks of my post in that regard #137

Hi Bob, their questions were answered with scripture in post # 110 linked; post 114 linked and post # 115 linked. All I get back is that they do not understand what the posts and the scriptures provided that answer their question is talking about. (see the linked posts). I suggested after a while it might be best for them to pray about it. It is quite a a revealing discussion. Go check it out in the linked posts.

God bless.

Leaf473 · Jan 25, 2022

BobRyan said:
Not a food fast...

As I said, it's subjective... All the more so since Isaiah 58 is poetry.

Imo, the issue would be whether John the apostle or more particularly the writer of the Acts of John thought that Isaiah 58 forbade fasting on the seventh day of the week.

I note that John breaks the fast on the seventh day, as opposed to "at the beginning" of the seventh day. To me that implies that he was fasting for at least some part of the seventh day of something, the week or the fast.

Leaf473 · Jan 25, 2022

LoveGodsWord said:
Your response here...

Your did not address anything in the post you were quoting from.

That's correct. I believe your post would fit well in the "Sabbath and the law" section. We are in the "Christian History" section.

Leaf473 · Jan 25, 2022

LoveGodsWord said:
Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of some in the early Church (many continued keeping the Sabbath) that has led many away from God and His Word to break God's 4th commandment.

I did want to ask you about this part. Do you know about how many continued keeping a 7th Day Sabbath? Was it more prominent in some regions? What source (s) are you looking at?

LoveGodsWord · Jan 25, 2022

Leaf473 said:
That's correct. I believe your post would fit well in the "Sabbath and the law" section. We are in the "Christian History" section.

Not really, as shown from the scriptures already "the Lords day" is the Sabbath day. Then we have biblical history that supports Jesus and the Apostles all keeping the Sabbath according to God's 4th commandment. "The Lord's day" according to the scriptures, has never been Sunday. The application of "the Lords day" from Revelation 1:10 being Sunday is a man-made teaching and tradition of the early Roman Church that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God which goes against the teachings and warnings given by Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9.

Take Care.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 25, 2022

Leaf473 said:
I did want to ask you about this part. Do you know about how many continued keeping a 7th Day Sabbath? Was it more prominent in some regions? What source (s) are you looking at?

Gods' people have always kept the Sabbath all through time outside of the Church of Rome. Sources are the historical records that can trace Sabbath keeping from the biblical records from Jesus and the Apostles from the first century to the 20th all of which is recorded in history. If you would like me to share them let me know as there is a lot of them.

Take Care.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 25, 2022

Danthemailman said:
So what is the identifying mark of a true Christian according to you? There are genuine Christians and there are “nominal” Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers in various churches.

According to the scriptures, God's saints keep all the commandments of God through faith in Jesus, not some of them as shown in Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14 and 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 5:2-3. According to the scriptures sin is the transgression of Gods' law and is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil in 1 John 3:4-10.

Hope this is helpful.

ViaCrucis · Jan 25, 2022

Kilk1 said:
Hello! The other day, I was discussing Sabbatarianism on a thread, and @Torah Keeper said that the Acts of John (Apocryphal) supports the view that the Lord's Day is Saturday. Here's the text in question:

And on the seventh day, it being the Lord's day, he said to them: Now it is time for me also to partake of food. And having washed his hands and face, he prayed, and brought out the linen cloth, and took one of the dates, and ate it in the sight of all.

To that, @Leaf473 replied, "To me, it's unclear if it refers to the 7th day of the week or the 7th Day of John's fast." Is @Leaf473's interpretation correct, or does the text support the idea that the Lord's Day is on the seventh day of the week? If the latter, then when was this text written? Thanks!

It appears that the version at New Advent is an abbreviated translation of only the later Latin portions of the text.

As looking at fuller translations, such as M.R. James' 1924 translation, I simply can't find this anywhere.

The only mention of "the Lord's Day" is found in a separate episode than the rest of the Acts of John (the fragmentary nature of the work makes the work fairly difficult to work with from what I can gather) and comes in this portion of text:

"John therefore continued with the brethren, rejoicing in the Lord. And on the morrow, being the Lord's day, and all the brethren being gathered together, he began to say unto them: Brethren and fellow-servants and coheirs and partakers with me in the kingdom of the Lord, ye know the Lord, hovv[sic] many mighty works he hath granted you by my means, how many wonders, healings, signs, how great spirital gifts, teachings, governings, refreshings, ministries, knowledges, glories, graces, gifts, beliefs, communions, all which ye have seen given you by him in your sight, yet not seen by these eyes nor heard by these ears. Be ye therefore stablished in him, remembering him in your every deed, knowing the mystery of the dispensation which hath come to pass towards men, for what cause the Lord hath l accomplished it. He beseecheth you by me, brethren, and entreateth you, desiring to remain without grief, without insult, not conspired against, not chastened: for he knoweth even the insult that cometh of you, he knoweth even dishonour, he knoweth even conspiracy, he knoweth even chastisement, from them that hearken not to his commandments." - Acts of John 106, M.R. James' Translation

When looking at the quoted text in the OP, and looking at the preceding context, it seems to me that it is referring to the seventh day of John's fasting. The soldiers kept entreating John to eat, and each day he refused food and only slept. Hence the soldiers were afraid that John might die.

In what I've quoted below I've placed the original quoted text in the OP in bold, and have underlined what I believe to be important contextual information.

"And the soldiers, having taken the public conveyances, travelled fast, having seated him in the midst of them. And when they came to the first change, it being the hour of breakfast, they entreated him to be of good courage, and to take bread, and eat with them. And John said: I rejoice in soul indeed, but in the meantime I do not wish to take any food. And they started, and were carried along quickly. And when it was evening they stopped at a certain inn; and as, besides, it was the hour of supper, the centurion and the soldiers being most kindly disposed, entreated John to make use of what was set before them. But he said that he was very tired, and in want of sleep more than any food. And as he did this each day, all the soldiers were struck with amazement, and were afraid lest John should die, and involve them in danger. But the Holy Spirit showed him to them as more cheerful. And on the seventh day, it being the Lord's day, he said to them: Now it is time for me also to partake of food. And having washed his hands and face, he prayed, and brought out the linen cloth, and took one of the dates, and ate it in the sight of all."

To me it seems like the natural reading is that this is the seventh day of John refusing to eat, and finally he breaks his fast on "the Lord's Day".

According to the notes on the M.R. James Translation, it would appear that perhaps the abbreviated translation refers to a much later Latin introduction that is missing in earlier Greek copies. As the earlier texts don't seem to include any encounter between John and Domitian.

-CryptoLutheran

klutedavid · Jan 25, 2022

LoveGodsWord said:
Keep reading...

1 John 3:6-9 [7], Whoever abides in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him. [7] Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. [8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. [9] Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Take Care.

Now your supporting my side of the debate.

What are you doing LGW?

I will use your quotation again and show you what you fail to understand.

1 John 3:6-9 Whoever abides in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Your saying that someone who truly believes in Jesus will sin.

The scripture says.

Whoever is born of God does not commit sin

You say that someone who calls on the name of Jesus will sin.

The scripture says the opposite of what your saying.

For his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin

Read it again, LGW.

For his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin

Can it get any easier to understand, LGW?

LoveGodsWord · Jan 25, 2022

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Keep reading... 1 John 3:6-9 [7], Whoever abides in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him. [7] Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. [8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. [9] Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Your response here...

klutedavid said:
Now your supporting my side of the debate.

What are you doing LGW?

I will use your quotation again and show you what you fail to understand.

1 John 3:6-9 Whoever abides in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Your saying that someone who truly believes in Jesus will sin.

The scripture says.

Whoever is born of God does not commit sin

You say that someone who calls on the name of Jesus will sin.

The scripture says the opposite of what your saying.

For his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin

Read it again, LGW.

For his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin

Can it get any easier to understand, LGW?

No I have said no such thing and no the scriptures do not support what your saying at all. It would be nice if you could stop pretending I have said things I have never said to you and we could freely discuss the scriptures and the post contents being shared with each other.

Take Care.

Clare73 · Jan 25, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
Got the message?
Keep a Saturday Sabbath or go to hell...
All else is 'man made tradition'
How bizarre is that ?

For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believed in Him and
Kept the Saturday Sabbath should not perish but have eternal life...
Is that the gospel?
Surely that is adding tradition to God's Word...

. . .

klutedavid · Jan 25, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
Got the message?

Keep a Saturday Sabbath or go to hell...

All else is 'man made tradition'

How bizarre is that ?

For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believed in Him and Kept the Saturday Sabbath should not perish but have eternal life...

Is that the gospel?

Surely that is adding tradition to God's Word...

Certainly looks like the pure gospel of the sabbath.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 25, 2022

klutedavid said:
Certainly looks like the pure gospel of the sabbath.

The gospel according to the scriptures is every word of God not some of it (Matthew 4:4).

Take Care.

klutedavid · Jan 25, 2022

LoveGodsWord said:
Your response here...

No I have said no such thing and no the scriptures do not support what your saying at all. It would be nice if you could stop pretending I have said things I have never said to you and we could freely discuss the scriptures and the post contents being shared with each other.

Take Care.

You cannot accept that a Christian cannot sin.

Whoever is born of God does not commit sin

Is the Lord's Day Saturday according to Acts of John (Apocryphal)?

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