Does Light Form Darkness?

HARK! · Jan 22, 2022

.Does light form darkness; or does it contrast it?

According to the Laws of Thermodynamics there are inefficiencies with motion. All energy that isn't being converted to work, is being dissipated as heat. You can simply look at the coals of a fire, from the cold distance, and get an idea of the temperature of the fire. The higher the temperature the higher the frequency of light.

Why mention all of this? Because everything that is in motion therefore must emit light. Time is the relationship between objects in motion. No motion, no time. As the electron interacts in motion with the proton the atom exists. No motion, no matter. Time and matter cannot exist without emitting light. The light that they emit, testifies to their existence. The absence of their light testifies to the absence of their existence, darkness.

What does YHWH say?

(CLV) Isa 45:7
Former יצר of light and Creator ברא of darkness, Maker of good and Creator of evil, I, Yahweh, make עשה all these things.

Three different words are being used here to describe the order of creation.

I believe that darkness is the absence of light, which would also me the absence of matter, therefore motion, therefore time. Light creates the contrast to an absence of light, or darkness.

Let's go back to the beginning for more clues.

(CLV) Gn 1:1
In a beginning Elohim created ברא the heavens and the earth.

Well there we go! My understanding must be incorrect.

Not so fast.

(CLV) Gn 1:2
As for the earth, it came to be a chaos and vacant, and darkness was over the surface of the abyss. And the spirit of Elohim was vibrating (motion) over the surface of the waters.

Was what was created ברא vibrating?

(CLV) Gn 1:3
And Elohim said: Let light come to be יהי (he-shall-become)! And light came to be ויהי (and·he-is-becoming).

I don't have this all sorted out, but it would appear that this isn't as simple as it could be made out to be in Western understanding, from a translation to English, from an evolving language, derived from Ancient Hebrew.

Trusting in Him · Jan 22, 2022

E=mc² is that well known formula which Einstein wrote. In it we find that mass can be produced from energy. Where did the energy come from which made this whole known universe. Why not from God?

God literally spoke creation into being. What's the difference between that and God prophecying future events. Maybe not as much as you might think! Is not God the one who speaks everything into being?

He speaks and it is exactly as He has spoken it. How awesome is our God.

TedT · Jan 22, 2022

HARK! said:
Does light form darkness; or does it contrast it?

Physical light cannot create darkness.
Dark is created when there is an impediment to the light.
Your metaphor is misused.

Goodness cannot create evil.

If we apply what we know of physical light to Gen 1:3 and following verses we get mired pretty fast if we see it as only physical light...so I suggest we understand it as alluding to something else.

Genesis 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.

WoW - light separated from darkness, with no darkness... IF this light is the visible light our eyes can see, then by making it, it creates its own darkness where it is absent. How can light be not separated from darkness or how can it be so separated if it wasn't already separated by its creation? Can this really apply to visible light? Doesn't sound like light we know, does it?

So, was GOD doing tricks with visible light or does this point to something else?
1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

Does "GOD is light" refer to a visible glow or shine like a star or sun? This is weird stuff right? Does “Let there be light,” mean HE self created HIMself? Well of course not, so light is a characteristic of GOD, a divine attribute, part of HIS nature:

1 John 1:5 And this is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you: God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
That God is light - Light, in the Scriptures, is the emblem of purity, truth, knowledge, prosperity, and happiness - as darkness is of the opposite. John here says that "God is light" - φῶς phōs - not the light, or a light, but light itself; that is, he is himself all light, and is the source and fountain of light in all worlds. He is perfectly pure, without any admixture of sin. He has all knowledge, with no admixture of ignorance on any subject. He is infinitely happy, with nothing to make him miserable. He is infinitely true, never stating or countenancing error; he is blessed in all his ways, never knowing the darkness of disappointment and adversity.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
...that is, as light is opposed to the darkness of sin; he is pure and holy in his nature and works, and of such pure eyes as not to behold iniquity; and so perfectly holy, that angels cover their times before him, when they speak of his holiness:

Vincent's Word Studies
God is Light (Θεὸς φῶς ἐστὶν)
A statement of the absolute nature of God. Not a light, nor the light, with reference to created beings, as the light of men, the light of the world, but simply and absolutely God is light, in His very nature. Compare God is spirit, and see on John 4:24: God is love, 1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16. The expression is not a metaphor. "All that we are accustomed to term light in the domain of the creature, whether with a physical or metaphysical meaning, is only an effluence of that one and only primitive Light which appears in the nature of God" (Ebrard). Light is immaterial, diffusive, pure, and glorious. It is the condition of life.

People's New Testament
John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him. The message heard from Christ, now declared, is that God is light. The source whence all light, whether it be physical, or moral, or spiritual, comes; the Enlightener of the universe. The term denotes luminous clearness, the free and benevolent source from whence flow light, intelligence, purity and blessing, absolutely free from alien intermixture, since in him there is no darkness at all. Light represents truth, knowledge and holiness. Darkness represents ignorance, error, falsehood and sin.

In terms used by the Scripture to define LIGHT in other places, this would mean that GOD created perfect goodness and separated it from evil…a process which we know is by faith in HIM as our GOd and our Saviour.

LIGHT IS FAITH:
LIGHT is the moral attribute of goodness and life by faith unto righteousness while darkness is evil, rejecting GOD by faith, and death. And in Gen 1:4 GOD separated between them: Genesis 1:4 God saw that the light was good, and HE separated the light from the darkness.

This suggests that ALL people created in HIS image, ALL the Sons of GOD in Job 38:7, already existed by the end of verse 2 or between the verses and speaks to the free will decision that was the separation between all those who accepted YHWH as their GOD and those who rejected HIM as a liar false god in the Satanic fall.

Faith is the person's response to GOD's claims to be our creator and our only saviour from all sin. GOD's claims were part of the gospel proclaimed to every person in creation, Col 1:23.

So could not Genesis 1:3 imply: And God said, “Let there be light,” [ie, faith unto righteousness] and there was light [faith]. 4 God saw that the light [faith] was good, and he separated the light from the darkness [evil, rejecters, antagonists to HIS will, the unfaith or never believing that has them condemned already, Jn 3:18]?

This separation of the light from dark may not be about creation but a foreshadowing of the end of this world, the judgement day and the start of our new life as the Bride of Christ.

HARK! · Jan 22, 2022

TedT said:
Physical light cannot create darkness.
Dark is created when there is an impediment to the light.
Your metaphor is misused.

You've presented a strawman argument

I didn't say create. I said form יצר .

It seems that you didn't understand the OP.

It is wise to understand a question, before answering it.

Do you have any questions?

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 23, 2022

HARK! said:
(CLV) Gn 1:3
And Elohim said: Let light come to be יהי (he-shall-become)! And light came to be ויהי (and·he-is-becoming).

I don't have this all sorted out, but it would appear that this isn't as simple as it could be made out to be in Western understanding, from a translation to English, from an evolving language, derived from Ancient Hebrew.

Not sure what you are getting at or asking. Genesis 1:3 is: "And said Elohim "Yehi Ohr" (be light) and there was light". This is that HaShem expanded into or entered the darkness. Darkness is the absence of light. This is when HaShem contracts. It is "Ohr haGanuz" (hidden light). Are you saying "hayah" or "yihiye"? Vayehi ohr...and there was light? Difference between bara, yatzar and oseh?

AbbaLove · Jan 24, 2022

I was at Home Depot and they told me there is no such thing as a "Dark Switch"
Darkness is the absence of Light ... don't complicate the obvious :amen:

... or you could blow a fuse and be diminished by a lessening of His Light.

Read Mattthew 18:3 and stop complicatng matters as seems to be the tendency of man. The Gospels aren't complicated ... it's just that man makes the Good News more complicated than the LORD intended. Is the LORD's Prayer too complicated for a child to understand.

HARK! · Jan 24, 2022

AbbaLove said:
I was at Home Depot and they told me there is no such thing as a "Dark Switch"

It's little known that all light switches can become dark switches if they are tuned upside down. Once that happens; if you try to turn them off; they say "NO;" yet the light prevails.

Sometimes people can't see what's right in front of them.

AbbaLove · Jan 24, 2022

HARK! said:
Sometimes people can't see what's right in front of them.

That's because they don't want to or don't know how to turn ON HIS Light Switch because they are enshrouded in the darkenss of the enemy.

Man's nature is to confuse His Light ... like ... Does Light Form Darkness ... silliness ... maybe what was His (Spiritual) Light is diminishing in your presence. Just hope that it doesn't turn to darkness. Hope you can find His Light Switch before it gets too dark.

Proverbs 3:5-7 (CJB)
5 Trust in Adonai with all your heart;
do not rely on your own understanding.
6 In all your ways acknowledge him;
then he will level your paths.
7 Don’t be conceited about your own wisdom;
but fear Adonai, and turn from evil.

HARK! · Jan 24, 2022

AbbaLove said:
That's because they don't want to or don't know how to turn ON HIS Light Switch because they are enshrouded in the darkenss of the enemy.

Man's nature is to confuse His Light ... like ... Does Light Form Darkness ... silliness ... maybe what was His (Spiritual) Light is diminishing in your presence. Just hope that it doesn't turn to darkness. Hope you can find His Light Switch before it gets too dark.

Proverbs 3:5-7 (CJB)
5 Trust in Adonai with all your heart;
do not rely on your own understanding.
6 In all your ways acknowledge him;
then he will level your paths.
7 Don’t be conceited about your own wisdom;
but fear Adonai, and turn from evil.

Well since you are not in darkness, and are standing to the full presence of his light; perhaps you can speak for him.

HARK! said:
(CLV) Isa 45:7
Former יצר of light and Creator ברא of darkness, Maker of good and Creator of evil, I, Yahweh, make עשה all these things.

Why did YHWH use three different (highlighted) words in this statement?

This was asked in the OP....you know....the topic of this thread....not me...; or were you in the dark about that?

Trusting in Him · Jan 24, 2022

I have the definitive answer about this!

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. (1 John 1:5)

Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. (1 Thessalonians 5:5)

We have no need to dwell in darkness, but instead to walk in His glorious light. Do you believe this?

HARK! · Jan 24, 2022

Trusting in Him said:
I have the definitive answer about this!

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. (1 John 1:5)

Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. (1 Thessalonians 5:5)

We have no need to dwell in darkness, but instead to walk in His glorious light. Do you believe this?

Let's look at the verse that was presented in the OP very carefully:

(CLV) Isa 45:7
Former יצר of light and Creator ברא of darkness, Maker of good and Creator of evil, I, Yahweh, make עשה all these things.

Are you suggesting that YHWH formed himself?

Trusting in Him · Jan 24, 2022

HARK! said:
Let's look at the verse that was presented in the OP very carefully:

(CLV) Isa 45:7
Former יצר of light and Creator ברא of darkness, Maker of good and Creator of evil, I, Yahweh, make עשה all these things.

Are you suggesting that YHWH formed himself?

No I am not! Why do you think that? Sorry, Am I missing something here? I don't really understand what I have said that makes you think that I have said that. Surely God is the uncreated One. He has always been there!

Trusting in Him · Jan 24, 2022

What have I said which is wrong here? Sorry, but I not understanding this!

HARK! · Jan 24, 2022

Trusting in Him said:
No I am not! Why do you think that? Sorry, Am I missing something here? I don't really understand what I have said that makes you think that I have said that. Surely God is the uncreated One. He has always been there!

You posted a verse which states that YHWH is light, to explain a verse which says that YHWH formed light.

What else was I to think you were saying?

Trusting in Him · Jan 24, 2022

HARK! said:
You posted a verse which states that YHWH is light, to explain a verse which says that YHWH formed light.

What else was I to think you were saying?

Sorry, brain not engauged and I getting a bit tired.

Humble Penny · Jan 24, 2022

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Not sure what you are getting at or asking. Genesis 1:3 is: "And said Elohim "Yehi Ohr" (be light) and there was light". This is that HaShem expanded into or entered the darkness. Darkness is the absence of light. This is when HaShem contracts. It is "Ohr haGanuz" (hidden light). Are you saying "hayah" or "yihiye"? Vayehi ohr...and there was light? Difference between barah, yatzar and oseh?

Lol! John tells us plainly:

"God is Light and in Him there is no darkness"

You claim that:

"Darkness is the absence of light."

If this is true then your logic would mean that at one point in time God was absent and that's how darkness came about. How is it that God is Eternal Light...and yet somehow became "absent"?

Also you seem to overlook the fact that since we have been experiencing darkness for almost 6,000 Years: that means God has been repeatedly absent for the same amount of time!

This simple minded logic is pretty laughable.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 24, 2022

Humble Penny said:
Lol! John tells us plainly:

"God is Light and in Him there is no darkness"

You claim that:

"Darkness is the absence of light."

If this is true then your logic would mean that at one point in time God was absent and that's how darkness came about. How is it that God is Eternal Light...and yet somehow became "absent"?

Also you seem to overlook the fact that since we have been experiencing darkness for almost 6,000 Years: that means God has been repeatedly absent for the same amount of time!

This simple minded logic is pretty laughable.

Really? That is what you got from what I wrote? We all love how you force words and thoughts on to us...what is laughable is your lack of understanding. I never said there was darkness IN God. Read Psalm 139:12! You obviously do not know Jewish kabbalistic thought...tzimtzum. For this, emanation, creation and formation. If there is light in the darkness, it is no longer darkness. Where there is no light, it is darkness. Darkness can not exist in the presence of light. Light dispels the darkness. Lamentations 3:2...John 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it...for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light. So without God, darkness...with God...light! Those who were in darkness have seen a great light!

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 24, 2022

Humble Penny said:
You claim that:

"Darkness is the absence of light."

If this is true then your logic would mean that at one point in time God was absent and that's how darkness came about. How is it that God is Eternal Light...and yet somehow became "absent"?

This simple minded logic is pretty laughable.

Maybe you should tell that to HARK! too? He said "I believe that darkness is the absence of light..."

Humble Penny · Jan 24, 2022

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Really? That is what you got from what I wrote? We all love how you force words and thoughts on to us...what is laughable is your lack of understanding. I never said there was darkness IN God. Read Psalm 139:12! You obviously do not know Jewish kabbalistic thought...tzimtzum. For this, emanation, creation and formation. If there is light in the darkness, it is no longer darkness. Where there is no light, it is darkness. Darkness can not exist in the presence of light. Light dispels the darkness. Lamentations 3:2...John 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it...for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light. So without God, darkness...with God...light! Those who were in darkness have seen a great light!

Your quote in post #18 clearly has you claiming what I bolded in post #19. No one "forced words" onto you or anyone else for that matter in this thread. I simply followed your reasoning to it's logical end.

Humble Penny · Jan 24, 2022

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Maybe you should tell that to HARK! too? He said "I believe that darkness is the absence of light..."

I actually addressed him in another thread which I can't recall from the top of my head.

Does Light Form Darkness?

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