The acceptance of hypocrisy

Clare73 · Jan 23, 2022

Rachel20 said:
The distinction between practicing sin and temporary stumbling is valid.

Agreed. . .

Rachel20 · Jan 23, 2022

Michael Collum said:
The bible context is okay, the original word that is translated "hypocrite" had a deeper meaning than today, and perhaps much more offensive.

G5273 - hypokritēs - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

Yes - pretty serious:

And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: G5273 there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Mat 24:51

Carl Emerson · Jan 23, 2022

Michael Collum said:
It's more of an application issue, over thinking it tends to result in no application.

You are assuming that a scholar can not be devotional and loving...

d taylor · Jan 23, 2022

My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality. For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes, and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, “You sit here in a good place,” and say to the poor man, “You stand there,” or, “Sit here at my footstool,” have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?

Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts? Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called?

If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.”Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy.Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Clare73 · Jan 23, 2022

chevyontheriver said:
First, saying one thing and then not being able to live up to what you say is a rather common human thing. You can try to do better in the future or lower the bar for an easy pass. Your pick.

Second, you say the Church rejects LGBT folks but accepts divorced people. But that's not quite the whole story. While some will not only reject such people, and even claim that 'God hates [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]', that is not the position of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church has a very nuanced position that accepts people with same sex attractions while considering homosexual acts to be sinful. Sort of a 'love the sinner but hate the sin' approach. And at the same time

the Catholic Church resists divorce and remarriage. In fact one reason Catholics leave is that they have divorced and they can't remarry as Catholics if their first marriages have not been found null from the beginning.

We won't go into the hypocrisy of that bizarre charade for the sake of holding the line she once held without the charade . .but it seems the Catholic church is still the only one trying to hold the line here.
I hope she is able to maintain it.

We allow divorced people to be Catholics and receive communion if they do not remarry or engage in sinful sexual acts. We allow people with same sex attraction to be Catholics and to receive communion. They are expected to not engage in sinful sexual acts. For that matter, we do not consider attractions to even be sin, while some Protestants will reject them for even having the inclination.

Which is Biblical. . .

(OK, pope Francis has said ambiguous things pro and con to confuse people, but he hasn't managed just yet to change the teaching.)

So it's no blind spot for all of us, who accept divorced people and LGBT people but expect both of them to nonetheless live moral lives. All are welcome, but all must be changed by their conversion, and even daily reconversions, to Christ.

What did Jesus say to the woman caught in adultery? Go and sin more carefully? What do flavors of the Church say? Some just forgot what Jesus said. That's not just hypocrisy but apostasy by degrees. Either hating the sinners and the sin OR hating the sinners by loving the sin.

BeautifullyCreated · Jan 23, 2022

Michael Collum said:
The church does not accept LGBT folks in church due to the sentiment "from the beginning it was not so"

The church does accept divorced people and even allows them to remarry, even though Jesus said remarrying equals adultery "because from the beginning it was not so"

Should the church be concerned about the acceptance of this, and similar hypocrisies? How does God tend to respond to hypocrisy when quoted directly in the bible?

Once you have one blind spot, many others crop up in that space and become a thing all of a sudden. Might be worth a discussion.

So this one is so tough for me, as my brother just recently came out to my family as Gay. He is a 26-year-old and has never dated anyone before but he told me on Christmas (of all days of course right lol) that he thinks he is more interested in men than he is in women. My brother used to be Christian but now considers himself technically an atheist and I try so hard to lead him back to God but is definitely a struggle, especially considering that he lives across the country from me and we do not talk very often. What I find tough about this discussion is that God accepts us for who we are, all characteristics and quirks considered because He created us all uniquely within his own realm of desire. Now, considering that no one is the same, we were all however designed to be relational with one another and I think it is in our tasks as Christians to love everyone, our neighbors, as we would ourselves and extend the olive branch whenever possible, no matter how trying it may be. I found some more guidance on this in a book I recently read on Amazon as an audiobook and they are actually allowing people to do free trials so you all should check it out and see if it helps enlighten your views on this particular situation! I will share the link below for everyone but this was a very stimulating discussion prompt I must say!

Here is the link, I hope it helps!
https://amzn.to/3GVKf6p

Carl Emerson · Jan 23, 2022

I am a divorced person - my wife left me for my best friend.

I had no part in the separation.

After 10 years of singleness God miraculously led me to marry again.

37 years and 5 children later I don't have a shadow of a doubt that God orchestrated the marriage.

The OP presents a biblical view of re-marriage that is far too narrow.

I have offered to present a serious study on this issue and been waved aside.

For this reason, I believe the initial hypothesis presented is seriously flawed.

Totally the wrong choice of issues to introduce a discussion on hypocrisy.

Frankly very offensive.

timewerx · Jan 23, 2022

Michael Collum said:
The church does not accept LGBT folks in church due to the sentiment "from the beginning it was not so"

The church does accept divorced people and even allows them to remarry, even though Jesus said remarrying equals adultery "because from the beginning it was not so"

Should the church be concerned about the acceptance of this, and similar hypocrisies? How does God tend to respond to hypocrisy when quoted directly in the bible?

Once you have one blind spot, many others crop up in that space, and become a thing all of a sudden. Might be worth a discussion.

It's about money, consciously or subconsciously.

LGBT folks are less likely to have kids or get married. Kids grow up and later becomes tithe-paying member and in turn, will also have kids of their own.

Straight people who gets married or divorce and re-marries have better chance of having more kids. Children will have friends of their own they can potentially bring to church. So growing family with children is good/stable monetary / growth investment for the church.

It's not just LGBT. Churches can also be less catering to people who are single by choice (not interested in having relationships) or celibates. Because singles can't have kids on their own. Some adopt but rare. Therefore, singles, like LGBT are poor growth / revenue potential for church.

LGBT, people who are single by choice or celibate don't have as much revenue potential against straight people who are married with children or divorced but intending to re-marry and later on, have more kids.

I'm not against either group but I'm definitely disappointed about church hypocrisy and just about everything they do and topics they preach seems tailored around money.

Albion · Jan 23, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
For this reason, I believe the initial hypothesis presented is seriously flawed.

Totally the wrong choice of issues to introduce a discussion on hypocrisy.

Frankly very offensive.

That's what I thought. Christians being hypocritical is worth a discussion, but to preface that discussion with those particular comments, as they were worded, was a mistake.

Carl Emerson · Jan 23, 2022

Albion said:
That's what I thought. Christians being hypocritical is worth a discussion, but to preface that discussion with those particular comments, as they were worded, was a mistake.

Thank you...

I appreciate your understanding.

Unqualified · Jan 23, 2022

Homosexuals are self proclaimed trying to indoctrinate our children and our weak and confused in the issue. We must protect them from the fate of hell which they seem to ignore. Sin in the church ? It’s been corrected we know what to do. The lbtg community doesn’t have time to change the world which is being polarized to this issue. Christians are persecuted everywhere for their beliefs by reasoning souls. But scripture remains clear. Homosexuality is an abomination to the Lord. One must repent and lead a holy life to be in the church.

But we allow them to hear a service but they don’t stay because of the hard line. I treat everybody well with love even. I give them the gospel the gs and ls. They are the most resistant people we get. I think it’s great they want Jesus. But it wolves in sheep’s clothing.

Carl Emerson · Jan 23, 2022

Unqualified said:
I think it’s great they want Jesus. But it wolves in sheep’s clothing.

Not all... some are confused or spiritually blinded maybe from abuse, maybe not.

I would not attribute malice to a seeker easily...

Unqualified · Jan 23, 2022

Yes we get the abused and they are often mentally ill. But you’re right they need Jesus.

Rachel20 · Jan 23, 2022

timewerx said:
and topics they preach seems tailored around money.

which is why you don't hear many sermons on James 1:27 I couldn't help but chuckle at the 2008 meltdown happening right at the peak of the prosperity gospel

timewerx · Jan 23, 2022

Rachel20 said:
which is why you don't hear many sermons on James 1:27 I couldn't help but chuckle at the 2008 meltdown happening right at the peak of the prosperity gospel

They want to raise membership by doing what the world does running after shiny things.

This world is dead, nothing more than mindless tricks wasting air and pathetic excuse for existence.

dqhall · Jan 23, 2022

public hermit said:
You dodged my question so I'll put my cards on the table. Repentance is a life-long process. If homosexuality bars one from fellowship why not overeating, pride, dishonesty, whatever?

I don't know what denomination you belong to, but ours cannot deny baptism. And, the reason we don't have a litmus test is because we all know that we all would fail if it were different. How robust is grace, anyhow? Maybe works righteousness is where it's at. Clare, you almost have me convinced that we don't need grace. Or maybe only righteous people need grace; sinners are out of luck?

Jesus ate and drank with tax collectors and sinners (Mark 2:14-17). People criticized him for that. He taught in parables to the crowds that went to listen to him. Jesus gave more detailed instructions to his disciples in private. Even then one of the twelve disciples sided with the chief priests and the teachers of the law. Judas led the police serving the chief priests of the Sanhedrin to where Jesus and the disciples were hidden at Gethsemane.

A pastor may preach against homosexuality, inappropriate content, fornication and adultery. A Bible reader may learn these things by reading Bible verses. For a single person to be celibate is not a sin, even though marriage is popular. It seems married people are more likely to prosper. This is not always true as one spouse might squander resources or become disabled. Financial insecurity caused some divorces. I met a lady in online dating who had lived in a big house with her husband. She was divorced after becoming disabled. Her ex-husband remarried a healthy woman. She who had enjoyed wealth suffered poverty as a disabled divorced woman. In the Old Testament, the Lord asked Jeremiah not to marry. Paul accepted a celibate calling. Those who are married might become widows or widowers. They are not as likely to remarry in old age, yet some have faith to remarry in old age. Some who divorced went from marriage to marriage abandoning spouses and children along the way. This is a sin.

SkyWriting · Jan 23, 2022

Maria Billingsley said:
I am not sure how you can derive at the conclusion that hypocrisy is just how it is for Christians. Paul clearly teaches that the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and stops us FROM being hypocrites. Quite the opposite I'm afraid.
Blessings

The opposite of the passages I provided?
Yes, be afraid.

SkyWriting · Jan 23, 2022

Michael Collum said:
The church does not accept LGBT folks in church due to the sentiment "from the beginning it was not so"

Jesus did not turn anyone away from listening.

public hermit · Jan 23, 2022

dqhall said:
Jesus ate and drank with tax collectors and sinners (Mark 2:14-17). People criticized him for that. He taught in parables to the crowds that went to listen to him. Jesus gave more detailed instructions to his disciples in private. Even then one of the twelve disciples sided with the chief priests and the teachers of the law. Judas led the police serving the chief priests of the Sanhedrin to where Jesus and the disciples were hidden at Gethsemane.

A pastor may preach against homosexuality, inappropriate content, fornication and adultery. A Bible reader may learn these things by reading Bible verses. For a single person to be celibate is not a sin, even though marriage is popular. It seems married people are more likely to prosper. This is not always true as one spouse might squander resources or become disabled. Financial insecurity caused some divorces. I met a lady in online dating who had lived in a big house with her husband. She was divorced after becoming disabled. Her ex-husband remarried a healthy woman. She who had enjoyed wealth suffered poverty as a disabled divorced woman. In the Old Testament, the Lord asked Jeremiah not to marry. Paul accepted a celibate calling. Those who are married might become widows or widowers. They are not as likely to remarry in old age, yet some have faith to remarry in old age. Some who divorced went from marriage to marriage abandoning spouses and children along the way. This is a sin.

I don't think this is about sin. If it's about sin, then none of us should be Christian. The question, I think, is whether some people practice sin and others don't. Apparently, Christians don't practice sin. So, either they are really good at it and don't need more practice, or some sins (the ones in which Christians engage) are merely accidents.

Christians, after being saved, are accidental sinners. I guess that's the idea. Well, bless their hearts. It's not their fault.

SkyWriting · Jan 23, 2022

Rachel20 said:
Have you never backslid and fallen into sin and been chastised? Then repented, turned, and never gone back to that sin?

Who ever suggested chastising? Do you pay people to do that to you, or is it just randomly applied by strangers? Did people pay Jesus to Chastise them?

The acceptance of hypocrisy

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