The acceptance of hypocrisy

Clare73

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There's a bit of barrier there.
If you are identified as a homosexual, you get treated as if you have a special disease.
If you have had a divorce and re-marry, barriers to confess aren't as prevalent.
There is a confession inequality present,
which separates some from God's presence and the community of faith when they need it most.
No doubt about it, the barn door was opened when society overran the church on divorce and remarriage, and so you can expect the church to be overrun again by the sexual practice of homsexuality.
 
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Clare73

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So when hypocrisy creates an atmosphere that stigmatizes confession, what do you think God thinks about that?
It's not about confession, it's about repentance; i.e., turning.

"Repent" was often on the lips of Jesus and the apostles.
 
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If they are living in an habitual sexual

We are all habitual sinners. If you try to carve it at the joint, you just show that grace is not needed. If we really believed in grace, practicing axe murders could worship with us. Let them. Let them get baptised, break bread, and be there. Who knows, maybe Jesus died for them, too? :rolleyes: What we don't do is bar the door to "sinners." If we do that, then we need to make the primary guests the very worst of sinners and break our bread with them, like Jesus did. So, either way we come at it, sinners are there.

Church discipline? I'm cynical. We've done that. We've burned people, quartered them, shamed them, and have made their lives a living hell. That didn't work. We should really give graciousness and love a chance. We haven't tried that enough, lately at least, not to the point of sacrificing ourselves and what we love for the sake of a kingdom that already is.

The church that tries to save its life will lose it. Give it up for Christ, and who knows? What do we have to lose letting a homosexual couple be a part of? I'm not promoting homosexuality, according to C.F. rules, just positing a query. If the sinners that are in the church haven't obliterated it, what will a few more do? Where sin abounds, grace....
 
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Clare73

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Sir, I do not "practice sin" by Gods grace. Sometimes I sin (then repent) but that is not the same as practicing sin. You cannot be saved and not be turning away from sin in sanctification. It is essential for adoption and the Resurrection.
The unrepentant sinner has never professed to trust Christ to save them from their due punishment. This is a vastly different kind of situation and the two should not be confused with each other. The biggest difference is one group doesn't even have faith in God! Come on now.
Agree. . .
 
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Clare73

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How salty do you think the church is right now? It looks like the world, which is not salty. It's just one more institution vying for power, hence the fear. If it were salty, it wouldn't be afraid of gays or anyone else, but it's not salty and, therefore, afraid.
So God is afraid of sin because he legislates against it?
 
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Disagree. Have you not heard of the ''new man'' and ''new creature'' that the Bible talks about? How can we be conformed to Christs image if we never shift one iota from the unsaved, dead in sins place we begin in?

You sound almost offended at the idea of living a life of obedience to God to the best of our ability. What's the problem?

No problem; I'm with you. It is a journey. Where does it start, sinlessness? What sins should one never do to start? What sins negate one's start?

For the second part of that post I just said unrepentant sinners. That is people without Christ and not saved

Right, and you seem to know that is someone who doesn't practice sin, or do it knowingly, which eliminates everyone.

If Gay is confirmed homosexual, they need to acknowledge their sin, stop that sin and trust Christ to be their lord and saviour. How can anyone continue in their sin without even repenting and being born again?

Are you sinless? Then, by God, throw your stone. And, don't forget, sin no more. Don't you do that, either. Good luck! :) lol

sounds like you have a lot of hostility for me for some reason but there's no argument for this last part and I've made the distinctions already. Again, if you got saved and nothing changed for you, how do you even know you were saved to begin with?

Please, don't take what I'm saying personal because it is not personal. I don't care about all the same things you seem to. I don't even care that, in a back-handed way, you question my salvation. ;)

We just disagree, and C.F. allows me to speak since I live in a cave.

Again, my point was simply that we extended grace to divorced and remarried folks because we get it. We are sinners and are growing in grace. If that can't be extended across the board to other relationships, the charge of hypocrisy is warranted.
 
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So God is afraid of sin because he legislates against it?

God is not afraid of sinners. God loves sinners. What God doesn't seem to like are self-righteous religious folk who won't break bread with sinners.
 
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Rachel20

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Should the church be concerned about the acceptance of this, and similar hypocrisies? How does God tend to respond to hypocrisy when quoted directly in the bible?

I think everyone needs to examine him/her self, because God does deal with hypocrisy in the church. We see it in the letters to the seven churches. Here's one -

Rev 2:18-24

And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
 
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The human mind wants to understand but the spirit realm is different. They’re intelligent but not intellectuals. The distinction is important.

Discussion is an integral part of the enemy’s arsenal. We believe we’re taking action. But he knows the truth. God moves on prayer.

Less talk more prayer is a formula for divine movement. It’s an outgrowth of a lesson I learned from the art of happiness on controlling your thoughts and redirecting them.

Prayerwalking can be your default. It would make you more effective spiritually and keep the devil at bay. Spend a day praying against upsets, annoyances, and negative thoughts. Do the same on another with the addition of praise.

You’ll see life through different lenses. That’s the point. Now you’re playing the game.

~bella

I can't agree more with what you're saying. I don't know what's wrong with me. I keep talking. :)
 
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Sparagmos

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Sir, I do not "practice sin" by Gods grace. Sometimes I sin (then repent) but that is not the same as practicing sin

Wow. That’s some major self-righteousness there. You really think you repent for every sin? You’re not even aware of your own sin of pride in claiming you don’t practice sin.
 
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Rachel20

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Wow. That’s some major self-righteousness there. You really think you repent for every sin? You’re not even aware of your own sin of pride in claiming you don’t practice sin.

Have you never backslid and fallen into sin and been chastised? Then repented, turned, and never gone back to that sin?
 
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Clare73

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We are all habitual sinners. If you try to carve it at the joint, you just show that grace is not needed. If we really believed in grace, practicing axe murders could worship with us. Let them. Let them get baptised, break bread, and be there. Who knows, maybe Jesus died for them, too? :rolleyes:
I'm thinking we don't know more than Jesus on the issue of sin, so I'm sure you'll understand if I prefer what Jesus taught his apostles over any other ideas.
What we don't do is bar the door to "sinners."
They are welcome to come hear the gospel, but repentance, which figured in big with jesus (John 5:14, John 8:11; Mark 9:43-47) and the apostles (Acts 2:38, 17:30, 26:20) is necessary for membership in the fellowship.
If we do that, then we need to make the primary guests the very worst of sinners and break our bread with them, like Jesus did. So, either way we come at it, sinners are there.

Church discipline? I'm cynical. We've done that. We've burned people, quartered them, shamed them, and have made their lives a living hell. That didn't work. We should really give graciousness and love a chance. We haven't tried that enough, lately at least, not to the point of sacrificing ourselves and what we love for the sake of a kingdom that already is.

The church that tries to save its life will lose it. Give it up for Christ, and who knows? What do we have to lose letting a homosexual couple be a part of? I'm not promoting homosexuality, according to C.F. rules, just positing a query. If the sinners that are in the church haven't obliterated it, what will a few more do? Where sin abounds, grace....
There's a difference between human idealism and gospel ideals.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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The church must accept hypocrisy. The Bible says it is who we are as Christians.

15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

Galatians 5:17
For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
I am not sure how you can derive at the conclusion that hypocrisy is just how it is for Christians. Paul clearly teaches that the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and stops us FROM being hypocrites. Quite the opposite I'm affraid.
Blessings
 
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Do you feel guilt when you sin? Serious question.

I do not like to do things that are not loving to God and those created in the divine image. I do not like living within creation in a way that is not fitting for what I, as a human creature, am created to be. So no, sin does not feel good. And, by grace, I try to avoid it. Guilt is a bogeyman. I don't want to be freed from guilt but the power of sin and death. So far, it is still a work in progress as far as I am concerned.

Talk of guilt misses the point because if you happen to not feel guilty, you might mistakenly assume you're no longer part of the problem.
 
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Rachel20

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Maybe someone needs to define "hypocrisy" because those in Matthew 7:23 were true "hypocrites" to me - they never knew the Lord, though they did so many things in his name

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
 
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