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Clare73

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So Clare are we in agreement now? Do you agree that we love God by keeping His commandments from the heart which is the fruit of genuine faith in God's Word? You haven't said much so I am still not sure exactly what you believe or if you feel GDL's posts have been helpful or not. Thanks also @GDL I believe your posts have been very helpful :)
Is there a reason you omitted love of neighbor from Christ's commands for the NT (Matthew 22:37-40), which commands fulfill the Decalogue, "and any other commandment there may be"? (Romans 13:8-10)

I do not agree that "love is the fulfillment (satisfaction) of the law;" i.e., Decalogue (Romans 13:8-10)
is the same as "the law is the fulfillment (satisfaction) of love."

Love requires much more than avoiding the behavior, much of which is criminal, prohibited by the Decalogue (Romans 13:8-10).
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Is there a reason you omitted love of neighbor from Christ's commands for the NT (Matthew 22:37-40), which commands fulfill the Decalogue, "and any other commandment there may be"? (Romans 13:8-10)

I do not agree that "love is the fulfillment (satisfaction) of the law;" i.e., Decalogue (Romans 13:8-10)
is the same as "the law is the fulfillment (satisfaction) of love."

Love requires much more than avoiding the behavior, much of which is criminal, prohibited by the Decalogue (Romans 13:8-10).

None whatsoever. They are all connected. According to the scriptures if we break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments we stand before God guilty of sin and breaking all of them according to James 2:10-11. This is why Jesus says "on these two great commandments" of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets. Love is not separate from obedience to Gods' law as shown by Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40; Paul in Romans 13:8-10; James in James 2:8-12 and John in 1 John 5:2-4. Of course we need to be born again into God's new covenant promise by faith, in order to to walk in His Spirit *1 John 3:6-9; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:4; Hebrews 8:10-12; Galatians 5:16. That was never in disagreement. So I gather you do not agree with @GDL 's posts then?

Take Care.
 
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Clare73

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This isn't the gospel, no way, no how.
It is true that those who do love God WILL keep His commandments. But the only ones who really love God have already put their trust in the work of Jesus Christ on the cross and have therefore been born again and have the Holy Spirit.
You should get your facts straight.
. . .:oldthumbsup:
 
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Clare73

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None whatsoever. According to the scriptures if we break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments we stand before God guilty of sin and breaking all of them according to James 2:10-11. This is why Jesus says "on these two great commandments" of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets. Love is not separate from obedience to Gods' law as shown by Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40; Paul in Romans 13:8-10; James in James 2:8-12 and John in 1 John 5:2-4. Of course we need to be born again into God's new covenant promise by faith, to walk in His Spirit. That was never in disagreement. So I gather you do not agree with @GDL 's posts then?

Take Care.
Love to man was not included in your post.

And I do not agree that "love is the fulfillment (satisfaction) of the law;" i.e., Decalogue
(Romans 13:8-10)
is the same as "the law is the fulfillment (satisfaction) of love."

Love requires much more than avoiding the behavior, much of which is criminal, prohibited by the Decalogue (Romans 13:8-10).
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Love to man was not included in your post.

And I do not agree that "love is the fulfillment (satisfaction) of the law;" i.e., Decalogue (Romans 13:8-10)
is the same as "the law is the fulfillment (satisfaction) of love."

Love requires much more than avoiding the behavior, much of which is criminal, prohibited by the Decalogue (Romans 13:8-10).

Your repeating yourself again here Clare and your post is not responsive to the post you are quoting from. I already told you I agree that we show our love to God and man by keeping Gods' commandments as we are born again through faith into Gods' new covenant promise while also quoting Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40; Paul in Romans 13:8-10, James in James 2:8-12 and John in 1 John 5:2-4. So I guess we will agree to disagree. Thanks for sharing your view though. At least I have no misunderstandings as to what you believe and I was correct the first time around. Perhaps you can pray about what has been shared with you. God's Word does not teach lawlessness (without law) because without the law there is no knowledge of what sin is *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and no way we can come to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *see Matthew 9:12-13; Galatians 3:22-25; Romans 2:12.

Take Care.
 
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Clare73

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I already told you I agree that we show our love to God and man by keeping Gods' commandments in the last post while also quoting Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40; Paul in Romans 13:8-10, James in James 2:8-12 and John in 1 John 5:2-4. So I guess we will agree to disagree. Thanks for sharing your view though. At least I have no misunderstandings as to what you believe and I was correct the first time around. Perhaps you can pray about what has been shared with you. God's Word does not teach lawlessness (without law) because without the law there is no knowledge of what sin is *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and no way we can be come to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *see Matthew 9:12-13; Galatians 3:22-25; Romans 2:12.

Take Care.
Good to see we are in agreement.
 
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GDL

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Love to man was not included in your post.

And I do not agree that "love is the fulfillment (satisfaction) of the law;" i.e., Decalogue
(Romans 13:8-10)
is the same as "the law is the fulfillment (satisfaction) of love."

Love requires much more than avoiding the behavior, much of which is criminal, prohibited by the Decalogue (Romans 13:8-10).

Is anyone here saying or has anyone here said (other than you as you've done again here) what you've written as highlighted above. From what I can see, it originated with you, and you are telling us you do not agree with it. Seems a pointless endeavor. Who do you think agrees with it?
 
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Clare73

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And I do not agree that "love is the fulfillment (satisfaction) of the law;" i.e., Decalogue
(Romans 13:8-10)
is the same as "the law is the fulfillment (satisfaction) of love."

Love requires much more than avoiding the behavior, much of which is criminal, prohibited by the Decalogue (Romans 13:8-10).
Is anyone here saying or has anyone here said (other than you as you've done again here) what you've written as highlighted above. From what I can see, it originated with you, and you are telling us you do not agree with it. Seems a pointless endeavor. Who do you think agrees with it?
See the following:
Love is not separate to God's law. Love is expressed through obedience to Gods' law which is why Jesus says on these two commandments of love to God and love to man hang all the law and the prophets *Matthew 22:36-40. Paul agrees with Jesus in Romans 13:8-10 when he says that we show our love to our fellow man by keeping those laws in Gods' commandments that show us our duty of love to our neighbor.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Hello FG2, your making arguments no one is arguing about.
Sure, there's an argument against what I just said.

So if we are both in agreement what is your argument?
We certainly are not in agreement.

According to the scriptures, obedience to Gods' law is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27.
All this is simply another way to express loss of salvation. There is no guarantee that genuine believers will produce fruit. That's why it is commanded. And this is where we totally disagree. The Bible is very clear that those who believe ARE SAVED. So, if they don't produce fruit of obedience, you believe that believer will be cast into hell. Nope.

You don't have any support from Scripture for this idea.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Sure, there's an argument against what I just said.


We certainly are not in agreement.


All this is simply another way to express loss of salvation. There is no guarantee that genuine believers will produce fruit. That's why it is commanded. And this is where we totally disagree. The Bible is very clear that those who believe ARE SAVED. So, if they don't produce fruit of obedience, you believe that believer will be cast into hell. Nope.

You don't have any support from Scripture for this idea.
That is ok thanks for sharing your view. I prefer what the scriptures teach as shared with you in my posts. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. That would be between you and God.

Take Care.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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See the following:
I am not saying what you are claiming I am saying. You are in that one by yourself. I do not believe God's Word teaches lawlessness (without law) as shown in the scriptures and the posts already shared with you that you do not want to discuss with me.

Let me ask you again .....

If we LOVE God...

* Will we have other Gods?
* Will we make idols and worship them?
* Will we take his name [follow] him in vain?
* Will we remember his seventh day Sabbath and keep it holy?

If we LOVE our neighbour...

* Will we honor our parents?
* Will we murder?
* Will we commit adultery with our neighbor's spouse?
* Will we steal from them?
* Will we lie to them?
* Will we covet what they own?

Now if your answer is no then you agree with me. If your answer is yes what kind of love are you talking about where breaking any of Gods' 10 commandments is loving God or loving our fellow man? Yet the above is only what Jesus is telling us in Matthew 22:36-40; Paul in Romans 13:8-10; James in James 2:8-12 and John in 1 John 5:2-3 (see also 1 John 3:6-9; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:4; Romans 6:1-23 and 1 John 2:3-4).

..............

According to the scriptures, love is not separate from our actions. According to the scriptures we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith *Romans 1:5. Obedience to God's Law is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

Your may also want to consider that Jesus saves us from the inside out which is why we need to be born again *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4 into God's new covenant promise through faith to receive a new heart to love and walk in His Spirit *Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:2-4; Galatians 5:16.

Take Care.
 
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FreeGrace2

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That is ok thanks for sharing your view. I prefer what the scriptures teach as shared with you in my posts. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. That would be between you and God.
All of what you say here applies directly to you as well.

I have shown you what Jesus Christ SAID Himself. And yet you continue to believe something else.

Take Care.
 
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GDL

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See the following:

Thanks, Clare.

I've shown grammatically that LGW did not say what you've written & that you've mischaracterized the structure of his statement. LGW has told us he doesn't agree with that statement that originated with your error. I've seen no one, including you, agree with that statement. I think it's safe to move on in agreement at least on that matter. Whether or not you want to admit your mistake is entirely up to you. We all make them. Thanks for showing where it came from.

God's Law, correctly understood, reveals to us what Love is according to Him. God is Love. So, God is revealing His character to us by telling us what Love is. If we desire to imitate God, to become more and more like Him, then we can read His commandments and check ourselves to see if we are thinking, speaking, acting as He does in Love. Love for us is keeping God's commandments, His Law that is being written on our hearts, so we function as He does naturally, as He conforms us to the likeness of His first-born Son, our eldest Brother and Lord, to be keeping God's commandments from a new heart, by His Spirit in us. In Christ Jesus, God's commandments in God's Law will not be a burden for us, but simply a part of who we are by God's grace, through Faith that is being developed in us as greater and greater faithfulness to God as we work with Him to be developed from infancy to maturity and beyond, as Christ is formed in us. If we see a sibling in Christ caught up in sin, then those of us who have become mature enough (spiritual as Paul puts it) to see this, are commanded by God to help restore him to the narrow path of walking as Jesus walked and to carry his burden and thereby fulfill Christ's Law to love another as He loved and loves us, by carrying our burdens to His death on the cross.

If we'd just wake up and take a stand against sin, which is taught to us in God's commandments in God's Law, then we'd be further on our way to conforming to what God is actually doing in His Salvation Plan instituted by Him through His Son by His Spirit.

We Love God when we Obey God. When we Obey God by His Spirit and remaining in Christ, we Love God and our Christian siblings and we are enabled to fulfill and are fulfilling Christ's Law. This brings fulfillment to why He was sent by our Father to ultimately be put to death by His creation, so He could be raised and raise Himself to Life as and in the New Creation wherein we are created in righteousness to become more and more righteous in thought, speech and actions from a new heart, having God's commandments written on our hearts, not being enslaved under subjection to law, but being willingly and obediently enslaved under subjection to God's Grace in Christ with God's Spirit in us. Within this we will come to increasingly know Love and actually and Biblically Love according to the criteria for Love written in God Word, more specifically in God's Law, more specifically in God's commandments. Love for God and neighbor and for one another as Children of God and followers of Christ - Christians - is keeping God's commands and His commands no longer being a burden we can't carry. Anything else is sin, which is lawlessness, which is unrighteousness, which is simply disobedience to God.

NKJ 1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

NKJ Titus 1:16 They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable (detestable, repugnant, disgusting), disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.

"Active Sinner" and "Christian" just do not go together. Love and disobedience to God are contradictory terms. Love is active obedience to God from the heart, by God's Spirit, in Christ Jesus. God's Law never ends. It is a revelation of the eternal God's character. He has changed His Law in ways to facilitate His New Creation in Christ Jesus, but He has not and never will change those commandments that ultimately detail His eternally Righteous character that He is conforming us to in His Beloved First-Born Son. God is Love and Righteous and Holy and..., and God does not change. We do.

Can we Lose our Salvation? Try walking away from the above, the narrow way, go back through the narrow gate, fall from grace, become detached from the nourishing root, remove your hands from the plow, effectively leave The Faith, cease obeying God, which is to cease loving God and neighbor and one another, etc., etc., and then try to tell some of us why you're a Christian and you think you love God. Sorry, we have and read God's written criteria for that statement. In fact, some to much of it has been written on our hearts. It's who and what we are. And we're new and different from you and can see your error.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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God's Law, correctly understood, reveals to us what Love is according to Him. God is Love. So, God is revealing His character to us by telling us what Love is. If we desire to imitate God, to become more and more like Him, then we can read His commandments and check ourselves to see if we are thinking, speaking, acting as He does in Love. Love for us is keeping God's commandments, His Law that is being written on our hearts, so we function as He does naturally, as He conforms us to the likeness of His first-born Son, our eldest Brother and Lord, to be keeping God's commandments from a new heart, by His Spirit in us. In Christ Jesus, God's commandments in God's Law will not be a burden for us, but simply a part of who we are by God's grace, through Faith that is being developed in us as greater and greater faithfulness to God as we work with Him to be developed from infancy to maturity and beyond, as Christ is formed in us. If we see a sibling in Christ caught up in sin, then those of us who have become mature enough (spiritual as Paul puts it) to see this, are commanded by God to help restore him to the narrow path of walking as Jesus walked and to carry his burden and thereby fulfill Christ's Law to love another as He loved and loves us, by carrying our burdens to His death on the cross.

If we'd just wake up and take a stand against sin, which is taught to us in God's commandments in God's Law, then we'd be further on our way to conforming to what God is actually doing in His Salvation Plan instituted by Him through His Son by His Spirit.

We Love God when we Obey God. When we Obey God by His Spirit and remaining in Christ, we Love God and our Christian siblings and we are enabled to fulfill and are fulfilling Christ's Law. This brings fulfillment to why He was sent by our Father to ultimately be put to death by His creation, so He could be raised and raise Himself to Life as and in the New Creation wherein we are created in righteousness to become more and more righteous in thought, speech and actions from a new heart, having God's commandments written on our hearts, not being enslaved under subjection to law, but being willingly and obedient enslaved under subjection to God's Grace in Christ with God's Spirit in us. Within this we will come to increasingly know Love and actually and Biblically Love according to the criteria for Love written in God Word, more specifically in God's Law, more specifically in God's commandments. Love for God and neighbor and for one another as Children of God and followers of Christ - Christians - is keeping God's commands and His commands no longer being a burden we can't carry. Anything else is sin, which is lawlessness, which is unrighteousness, which is simply disobedience to God.

NKJ 1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

NKJ Titus 1:16 They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable (detestable, repugnant, disgusting), disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.

"Active Sinner" and "Christian" just do not go together. Love and disobedience to God are contradictory terms. Love is active obedience to God from the heart, by God's Spirit, in Christ Jesus. God's Law never ends. It is a revelation of the eternal God's character. He has changed His Law in ways to facilitate His New Creation in Christ Jesus, but He has not and never will change those commandments that ultimately detail His eternally Righteous character that He is conforming us to in His Beloved First-Born Son. God is Love and Righteous and Holy and..., and God does not change. We do.

Can we Lose our Salvation? Try walking away from the above, the narrow way, go back through the narrow gate, fall from grace, become detached from the nourishing root, remove your hands from the plow, effectively leave The Faith, cease obeying God, which is to cease loving God and neighbor and one another, etc., etc., and then try to tell some of us why you're a Christian and you think you love God. Sorry, we have and read God's written criteria for that statement. In fact, some to much of it has been written on our hearts. It's who and what we are. And we're new and different from you and can see your error.
Beautiful!
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Thank you. That's what my "Like" meant.

I'm sure you too long for a land where Righteousness dwells...
I do! Patiently waiting and praying. In the meantime, posts like these are what helps win souls for Christ, planting the seed for those who have an open heart to allow the Spirit to come in to guide us in all Truth.
 
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Clare73

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Thanks, Clare.

I've shown grammatically that LGW did not say what you've written & that you've mischaracterized the structure of his statement. LGW has told us he doesn't agree with that statement that originated with your error. I've seen no one, including you, agree with that statement. I think it's safe to move on in agreement at least on that matter. Whether or not you want to admit your mistake is entirely up to you. We all make them. Thanks for showing where it came from.
God's Law, correctly understood, reveals to us what Love is according to Him. God is Love. So, God is revealing His character to us by telling us what Love is. If we desire to imitate God, to become more and more like Him, then we can read His commandments and check ourselves to see if we are thinking, speaking, acting as He does in Love. Love for us is keeping God's commandments, His Law that is being written on our hearts, so we function as He does naturally, as He conforms us to the likeness of His first-born Son, our eldest Brother and Lord, to be keeping God's commandments from a new heart, by His Spirit in us. In Christ Jesus, God's commandments in God's Law will not be a burden for us, but simply a part of who we are by God's grace, through Faith that is being developed in us as greater and greater faithfulness to God as we work with Him to be developed from infancy to maturity and beyond, as Christ is formed in us. If we see a sibling in Christ caught up in sin, then those of us who have become mature enough (spiritual as Paul puts it) to see this, are commanded by God to help restore him to the narrow path of walking as Jesus walked and to carry his burden and thereby fulfill Christ's Law to love another as He loved and loves us, by carrying our burdens to His death on the cross.

If we'd just wake up and take a stand against sin, which is taught to us in God's commandments in God's Law, then we'd be further on our way to conforming to what God is actually doing in His Salvation Plan instituted by Him through His Son by His Spirit.

We Love God when we Obey God. When we Obey God by His Spirit and remaining in Christ, we Love God and our Christian siblings and we are enabled to fulfill and are fulfilling Christ's Law. This brings fulfillment to why He was sent by our Father to ultimately be put to death by His creation, so He could be raised and raise Himself to Life as and in the New Creation wherein we are created in righteousness to become more and more righteous in thought, speech and actions from a new heart, having God's commandments written on our hearts, not being enslaved under subjection to law, but being willingly and obedient enslaved under subjection to God's Grace in Christ with God's Spirit in us. Within this we will come to increasingly know Love and actually and Biblically Love according to the criteria for Love written in God Word, more specifically in God's Law, more specifically in God's commandments. Love for God and neighbor and for one another as Children of God and followers of Christ - Christians - is keeping God's commands and His commands no longer being a burden we can't carry. Anything else is sin, which is lawlessness, which is unrighteousness, which is simply disobedience to God.

NKJ 1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

NKJ Titus 1:16 They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable (detestable, repugnant, disgusting), disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.

"Active Sinner" and "Christian" just do not go together. Love and disobedience to God are contradictory terms. Love is active obedience to God from the heart, by God's Spirit, in Christ Jesus. God's Law never ends. It is a revelation of the eternal God's character. He has changed His Law in ways to facilitate His New Creation in Christ Jesus, but He has not and never will change those commandments that ultimately detail His eternally Righteous character that He is conforming us to in His Beloved First-Born Son. God is Love and Righteous and Holy and..., and God does not change. We do.

Can we Lose our Salvation? Try walking away from the above, the narrow way, go back through the narrow gate, fall from grace, become detached from the nourishing root, remove your hands from the plow, effectively leave The Faith, cease obeying God, which is to cease loving God and neighbor and one another, etc., etc., and then try to tell some of us why you're a Christian and you think you love God. Sorry, we have and read God's written criteria for that statement. In fact, some to much of it has been written on our hearts. It's who and what we are. And we're new and different from you and can see your error.
I'm familiar with that playbook. . .now it all comes together. . .took me long enough!
 
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