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As soon as some Americans stop practicing it.
That's the fallacy.
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As soon as some Americans stop practicing it.
Perhaps, but that doesn't answer my question.
I did. Remember this quote :
And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.
He said it just before telling his mob to march to the Capitol.
A considerable amount of the millions/billions spent was for hard equipment as well. Here is some information:Hi @RestoreTheJoy
Yes, and if you read that Forbes report, you'd have seen that their numbers are for all the money we've spent in equipment and training since the beginning of the war. Quite a lot of that was used up and is not some 'asset' sitting on the ground that one can pick up. How do you take away 20 years of training given to a soldier? Another large part of the vehicle count shows vehicles that we gave to the Afghani military. We didn't 'leave' that behind. Those were their vehicles. It was up to the Afghani military to secure them if they were to be secured from the Taliban. So, while I agree that a lot of stuff was left behind, it's nowhere near the dollar amount that you've quoted. The video shown earlier doesn't explain whether or not the vehicles being paraded are vehicles that were found out at abandoned U.S. military bases or whether they were vehicles that we had given the Afghani military and were taken from them by the Taliban forces. There is a big difference as to who is responsible in each scenario.
Yes, and if you read that report it was about the deaths of 12 servicemen 'while' we were leaving. We didn't 'leave' soldiers behind to die. Those soldiers died as a part of the effort to leave. There was another bombing incident just as the many hundreds that had occurred throughout the 20 year mission. It was while we were still in country and making an effort to leave. They died with other American servicemen standing within dozens of feet of them. They weren't left alone to die.
All of your complaints are really not valid to support the position you're making, as I see it. As far as the rest of your post concerning the Wiki article, none of that supports your position that we left billions of dollars of valuable military equipment or soldiers in Afghanistan after we left. It is merely a recount of how quickly the Taliban retook power. Everyone knew that was going to happen!!! It's Afghanistan!!! One of the problems with Americans, is that we think that not only should the rest of the world live like us, but we're going to do everything within our power to make them. Well, that doesn't work well in countries that are older than we are and have a longer and older established governmental system that we're trying to overthrow.
Look, it's fine with me if you want to hold Pres. Biden responsible for a bunch of boogey man issues that you exaggerate into major Himalayan mountains, but there is a truth that won't be ignored by those who actually look into the claims.
God bless,
Ted
I thought about it but it seemed so….. easy.I haven't had time to go through the entire thread: has anyone posted the obligatory Bill Paxton gif yet?
How many states sent fake electors to this attempt? How many high ranking federal officials colluded? How many protesters broke through barricaded doors? You are being …. Kindly out…. Ridiculous.The Insurrection at the Capitol just the other day in which 27 people, including US Congressman Jamaal Bowman, a Socialist, were arrested by Capitol Police on various charges received little coverage in the "mainstream" media. Not surprisingly, the mainstream media declined to refer to the uprising as a "coup attempt."
We've covered that already with the insurrection, the fake electoral votes, and conspiracy to overturn the election. Try to keep up.
I can see you are a Biden fan though. I am not, with the failures on every single front that he has created. At any rate, thank you for the discussion.
Provide evidence that he wanted an unlawful violent takeover and we can discuss.
You should try that. But the topic is the travails of the current President, not the Badly Defeated Former President.Are you referring to the conspiracy theory to overturn the election? How about we stick with actual facts?
He supported the violent insurrectionists who ransacked the Capitol. "We love you. You're very special." He never condemned them. Why not?
Might be a better fact check if it actually addresses what I wrote. Note that i never said anything about where his rioters were, just what the ex-president said.FACT CHECK: FALSE!
the "mob" was already at the Capitol even before Trump's speech ended.
A timeline of how the Jan. 6 attack unfolded — including who said what and when
Here’s all the US military equipment that likely ended up in Taliban hands
Hi @RestoreTheJoy
I don't know that I'd classify myself as a Biden 'fan', but I get your point. I did vote for him in the general election. I just like good sound government that is run by responsible and respectful people.
I would say that everything in your copied statement of what the administration said is correct. We don't know how much military gear was left on the ground. We never do. It's just piles and piles of stuff that no one wants to take the trouble and expense to bring back and it happens, as I've previously said, in pretty much every military skirmish that we are involved in. Certainly ones that take 10-20 years to reach completion. A lot of stuff gets scattered about and a lot stuff is deemed not worth bringing back. I would also again say that whatever the Taliban gained from what we gave to the Afghanistan government that was in power when we left, is not our responsibility to police.
I have also readily admitted that everyone that was in on the decision making process was somewhat surprised at the speed with which the Afghani government capitulated and that is just too bad. Only God knows the future, the rest of us just guess at it the best that we can. As far as your imagining that we left soldiers to die in Afghanistan, that is not a true statement. The 12 soldiers who died in the bomb attack while we were leaving, were not left to die. There were American soldiers standing toe to toe with them and they died in an attack just as some several hundred soldiers had before them while we were still in country. You're correct that only God knows how many were left behind, but you seem to be trying your best to make it appear that you know, also
Anyway, you are free to call me a Biden fan, I don't take offense. Personally, I'd much rather be a Biden fan than a Trump fan.
God bless,
Ted
Now you are moving the goalposts though. Me voluntarily handing a weapon to a neighbor -and training him on how to use it for self-defense - is not at all the same as abandoning millions in equipment and weapons to someone whom I knew (or should have known) would be quickly overrun by an enemy to use to kill other people including my own countrymen and allies. And while ostensibly the weapons were "left for Afghans" (if you buy that), we all - even Biden -still knew the Taliban would take over and take it all, though Biden didn't have the prescience to understand that this would be immediate.Hi @RestoreTheJoy
Let's, for a moment, say that your neighbor's home had been broken into. You're concerned about your neighbor and so you loan them a gun to protect themselves with in case it happens again and perhaps they are threatened themselves. Two weeks later the neighbor's home is broken into again and this time the intruder finds the gun and steals it along with whatever else he takes. Is it your fault the intruder winds up with your gun?
You were just doing what you thought was a good deed for your neighbor to help protect themselves.
To bring this around to your linked 'evidence' concerning this matter, first of all the title of the articles says 'likely'. Let's be sure that we understand what that word means when used in a sentence. It is not a word that defines a sure fact. It is a word that is making an assumption that whatever is being discussed is 'probably' applicable. So, the article starts out claiming that all that you are about to read about, while not surely the case, is 'likely' the case.
Secondly, almost all of what is discussed as to what military material is 'likely' in the hands of the Taliban, is admitted as being material that was given over for the protection of the Afghani government that was in power. Just like your neighbor, who for whatever reason didn't secure your firearm, the Afghani government was the entity responsible for such seized military equipment being in the hands of the 'thief'.
You then follow the tenuous thread of ownership all the way up to the President of the United States and make it all his fault. I'm curious, why isn't it the fault of the weapons manufacturers who made the weapons and gave them over to the U.S. government in the first place.
Finally, you article supports some of what I've claimed in a few of my posts. This 'fact' that the U.S. leaves a lot of stuff around and that it gets in the wrong hands has been a practice for quite some time. As the article states, as far back as at least 2016 reports were made that a lot of stuff was going missing and was finding its way into the hands of the enemy.
A 2016 Pentagon audit revealed that poor record-keeping and regulations had allowed nearly half of the 1.5 million weapons provided to Iraqi and Afghan security forces since 2002 to go missing, including nearly 978,000 M4 and M16s, while a 2014 SIGAR report found that some 43 percent of weapons provided to the ANDSF likely ended up in the hands of groups like the Taliban or ISIS. There is also plenty of ammo missing from former Afghan government stockpiles.
While I understand and agree that a lot of military armaments and materials are now in the hands of the Taliban regime ruling in Afghanistan, I have a hard time understanding that such a fact is somehow the deliberate work of our current president. I believe that history proves that this 'fact' is pretty much a 'fact' in every conflict in which we are involved in that lasts for many years. I also believe that it isn't a fair judgment to blame the current administration for what the Afghani government did with the weapons that we supplied them with, long after they were given the weapons in the first place. Anytime a government falls, to the victor go the spoils. That's such a 'fact of life' that it's actually a trusted saying.
But, you see me as a 'fan' of Pres. Biden and you see Pres. Biden as an enemy to you who is against all that you believe in. All of that is ok, of course, but the 'facts' that you are using to bolster such an understanding are pretty thin. You also are going on nothing but shear imagination, that had the former guy been given the opportunity to complete the plan that he set in place for withdrawing from Afghanistan, that plan would have been one wit different than it actually worked out to be. Let me ask you, what was Trump's plan for how the day, May 1st, was going to go?
God bless,
Ted
Do you honestly feel our government is currently run by "responsible and respectful people" though?
...but his policies were not insane, allowing millions of people to overrun the border bringing in drugs and trafficking women and children, about which he has done absolutely NOTHING, even though the state governors along the border have been screaming for help.
The rational approach to Afghanistan - and what anyone else would have done - is get the equipment out, get the allies out, and then get the soldiers out.
Might be a better fact check if it actually addresses what I wrote. Note that i never said anything about where his rioters were, just what the ex-president said.
- A majority of Californians (60%) believe that illegal immigrants should be allowed to apply for work permits.