A few questions for Protestants

Fidelibus

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Nowhere in scripture is the church defined as being the Roman Catholic Church, nor is a hierarchal structure ever depicted with a pope, cardinal, and bishops.

Nor was the congregation founded or built on Peter, nor did Peter have any primacy, and the first bishop of Rome was Linus, and Peter was never part of the RCC at any time.

Hello CK. This is not what I asked my friend. Here it is again:

For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?

If your answer is 'yes', please show where Scripture say's it. If you answer 'no', then tell what is.

Thank you.
 
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Fidelibus

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I invite you to visit my new thread here - A Question for Catholics | Christian Forums

You know 7b's, Oscar Wilde once said....“Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.”

So thank you! ;)

With that being said, I will gladly check out your thread once you answer the last few questions of my OP.

For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?

Have a Blessed day!
 
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Fidelibus

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============================


1 Cor 3:11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Rev 3:12 "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name."

Heb 1:
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the Word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:


2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
========================

Which is why the magesterium of the "one true nation church" in Christ's day - started by God at Sinai - can be "slam hammered" sola-scriptura by Christ in Mark 7:6-13 -- when its traditions and doctrines stray from conforming to the Word of God.

Thank You BR for your response. Of all the Scripture passages you posted though, I failed to see where any one of them that addressed the few last questions of my OP, that was:

For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?

I do however, as a Catholic believe 100% in the passages you posted! However, what I do not believe 100%, is your personal and fallible interpretation of them.

Have a Blessed Day
 
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BobRyan

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Thank You BR for your response. Of all the Scripture passages you posted though, I failed to see where any one of them that addressed the few last questions of my OP, that was:

For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?

Those texts I posted do tell us "who" is "upholding ALL things" (Heb 1:3) and "WHO" is the foundation of all of our Truth all doctrine all teaching. 1 Cor 3:11

I do however, as a Catholic believe 100% in the passages you posted!

Amen. And I as a non-Catholic do believe 100% in 1 Tim 3:15 ( in the context of Christ as THE one and only foundation where no doctrine or truth can be place on any other foundation - 1 Cor 3:11 - which as you say - you also agree.)


However, what I do not believe 100%, is your personal and fallible interpretation of them.

Nor do you accept 100% the interpretation my church has - of them.

Nor do I accept 100% your interpretation of them.
Nor do I accept 100% your church's interpretation of them.

So in that respect you and I do have some similarities.

But I DO accept the Holy Spirit's interpretation of those texts and you (I believe) would make that same claim.

2 Pet 1:
19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. 20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

so nothing "new" there - no "news"

=============================

as for "protesting Catholics" (early Protestants) - they found their church had strayed in their tradition and doctrine from "the Word" of God in certain instances - and so were in opposition to those errors.

Just as Christ found in Mark 7 (hence my quote of it -- that you say you also affirm) - that the one true nation church of HIS day - had strayed in their tradition and doctrine from "the Word" of God, and so He exposes that error "Sola Scriptura" in Mark 7 as already pointed out.
 
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Fidelibus

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So it would seem. No matter what information is provided, just call it nothing but an opinion--unless it's your opinion, of course. If that isn't a silly runaround, what is?

Hey Albion, I am just going by your Protestant theological system, (correct me if I'm wrong) where there exists no person or no institution that can infallibly decide what is true and what is false when it comes to matters of faith and/or morals, right? So again, is it not true, in Protestantism, the interpretation of any person who can read the Bible is just as valid, just as authoritative, as the interpretation of any other person who reads the Bible.

Meaning, my interpretations of the Bible, and your interpretations of the Bible, are just as valid and just as authoritative as any Protestant Pastors, or TV preacher out there, and what they preach regarding Scripture is nothing more than their fallible and personal interpretation of Scripture which could be in error, right? Remember Albion, it was you that agreed there is no person or institution is infallible when it comes to matters of faith and/or morals, right?

So, for a Protestant, would you not agree, that there is no way to know for sure what is or is not true when it comes to the Christian faith and the Bible. Because without an infallible person or institution, then every single interpretation of the Bible done by anyone anywhere, carries with it the possibility of being wrong. So, I don't understand what you are disagreeing with me. What did I get wrong?

Have a Blessed day!
 
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Fidelibus

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Those texts I posted do tell us "who" is "upholding ALL things" (Heb 1:3) and "WHO" is the foundation of all of our Truth all doctrine all teaching. 1 Cor 3:11



Amen. And I as a non-Catholic do believe 100% in 1 Tim 3:15 ( in the context of Christ as THE one and only foundation where no doctrine or truth can be place on any other foundation - 1 Cor 3:11 - which as you say - you also agree.)




Nor do you accept 100% the interpretation my church has - of them.

Nor do I accept 100% your interpretation of them.
Nor do I accept 100% your church's interpretation of them.

So in that respect you and I do have some similarities.

But I DO accept the Holy Spirit's interpretation of those texts and you (I believe) would make that same claim.

2 Pet 1:
19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. 20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

so nothing "new" there - no "news"

=============================

as for "protesting Catholics" (early Protestants) - they found their church had strayed in their tradition and doctrine from "the Word" of God in certain instances - and so were in opposition to those errors.

Just as Christ found in Mark 7 (hence my quote of it -- that you say you also affirm) - that the one true nation church of HIS day - had strayed in their tradition and doctrine from "the Word" of God, and so He exposes that error "Sola Scriptura" in Mark 7 as already pointed out.

Again BR, you skipped right over the few questions I asked of you. Once again...
For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?

You did however make some interesting points that I will ask you more about once you answer these.

Thanks!
 
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BobRyan

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So, for a Protestant, would you not agree, that there is no way to know for sure what is or is not true when it comes to the Christian faith and the Bible.

Not true since you keep leaving out the answer already posted a few times.

God -- the Holy Spirit - the infallible instructor in John 16 - as you already agreed
Scripture -- the infallible standard of truth. As you said you already agreed with.
 
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BobRyan

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..
For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth
- i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth?

you already said you agree that the one and only foundation of doctrine - of Truth - is Christ
1 Cor 3:11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

You already said you agree that Christ is the upholder of ALL things.. not just some things.
Heb 1:
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the Word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

I do however, as a Catholic believe 100% in the passages you posted!

And you already said you agree that the one true nation church started by God at Sinai fell into error in its tradition and doctrine - and that it was exposed by Christ "sola scriptura" in Mark 7:6-13

The very same kind of flaw detected by protesting-Catholics in their review of their own church's doctrine.
 
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Fidelibus

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Not true since you keep leaving out the answer already posted a few times.

God -- the Holy Spirit - the infallible instructor in John 16 - as you already agreed
Scripture -- the infallible standard of truth. As you said you already agreed with.

Again BR, you totally skipped over the few questions I asked of you.

"For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth?

Pay close attention here.....Is it the Bible? Yes or no?"

Address this and I will gladly discuss what you posted here.

Have a Blessed day
 
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BobRyan

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"For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?"

Address this and I will gladly discuss what you posted here.

you already agreed -- 4 minutes ago #70
 
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Fidelibus

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you already agreed -- 4 minutes ago #70

Okay, I see what your getting at. Yes I do agree with everything in the Bible, but again,I do not agree with your personal and fallible interpretation of Scripture, which could be in error.....Right?
 
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Albion

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Hey Albion, I am just going by your Protestant theological system, (correct me if I'm wrong)
No. From what you post, it is evident that you are operating from a stereotype that you have of Protestants generally...and you seemingly won't listen to anything that casts any part of that unfavorable stereotype into question.

So again, is it not true, in Protestantism, the interpretation of any person who can read the Bible is just as valid, just as authoritative, as the interpretation of any other person who reads the Bible.
No. That is definitely untrue. Unless you're a Unitarian (and even there it's questionable), any Protestant denomination you can point to has clearly defined doctrines that are considered to be the truth to the exclusion of error and that the members are expected to believe.

Sounds pretty much the same as in your church, doesn't it?

Meaning, my interpretations of the Bible, and your interpretations of the Bible, are just as valid and just as authoritative as any Protestant Pastors, or TV preacher out there, and what they preach regarding Scripture is nothing more than their fallible and personal interpretation of Scripture which could be in error, right?
No. Wrong.

Remember Albion, it was you that agreed there is no person or institution is infallible when it comes to matters of faith and/or morals, right?
What I said was that no person ("human") has been endowed with infallibility.
See posts 17 and 20.
 
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bbbbbbb

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You know 7b's, Oscar Wilde once said....“Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.”

So thank you! ;)

With that being said, I will gladly check out your thread once you answer the last few questions of my OP.

For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?

Have a Blessed day!

I am sorry that your memory seems to be very short. I answered your quested in post #34 where I wrote, "Not at all." Do I need to be clearer than that for you?

You also seem to have this problem with other posters here who have flatly stated the same to you, yet you continue to badger them for an answer. Why is that?

By the way, I note that you have not get weighed in on my thread. I do look forward to seeing you there.
 
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timothyu

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Yes, his silent response to my post #55 was telling...
Not to mention #10 and #24. Anyone who seeks to defend institution over scripture is already fallen to the wayside and allowing the things of the world to overtake them.,
 
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Carl Emerson

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Not to mention #10 and #24. Anyone who seeks to defend institution over scripture is already fallen to the wayside and allowing the things of the world to overtake them.,

Yes, the Kingdom is where Jesus reigns.
 
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