Elon Musk skynet satellites on collision course with space station full of astronauts

SkyWriting

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If automation made everyone jobless, who will buy the products robots produce??

The obvious answer is free income/money for everyone so people can still buy stuff even if they no longer have jobs even if they're doing absolutely nothing all day.

To avoid runaway inflation in this type of economy, everyone will have max quota of specific items they can buy - regardless of how much money they make or have.

It will be a generous quota unless you are addicted to food or shoes...You get my point.

Those who are addicted to food will be on a forced diet due to purchase quotas. It might end up being great for everyone. Obesity will be a thing of the past and people will be much healthier.


No free money for anyone. Every single person works for money. It's healthier for the mind. People in hospitals are bored stiff and need work too. One of my grandkids is autistic and unable to talk. BOY does this kid need a job to do. When he is idle he goes nuts. We all do.
 
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SkyWriting

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And a robot is built to do that new work. One Of the core aims of business is to reduce overhead, of you can eliminate the vast majority of employees and replace them with non striking, never sick robots/AI programs, business will do that.
And new work options open up. I listed millions of new jobs in just a few minutes.
Automation has always created new work opportunities. Like cars have.
 
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SkyWriting

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And a robot is built to do that new work. One Of the core aims of business is to reduce overhead, of you can eliminate the vast majority of employees and replace them with non striking, never sick robots/AI programs, business will do that.
There is a lot of non-manual work that robots can't do. Engineering. Solving problems. Figure out how to counter-act gravity.
 
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timewerx

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No free money for anyone. Every single person works for money. It's healthier for the mind. People in hospitals are bored stiff and need work too.
One of my grandkids is autistic and unable to talk. BOY does this kid need a job to do. When he is idle he goes nuts. We all do.

Hobbies can be very good substitute.

Many, if not most successfully retired peoples keep themselves busy, even productive, and entertained with hobbies.
 
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timewerx

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There is a lot of non-manual work that robots can't do. Engineering. Solving problems. Figure out how to counter-act gravity.

"Pseudo AI" tend to solve problems by "brute force". Extrapolating multiple possible outcomes piece by piece and choosing one that is tested or simulated to be superior than other configurations.

We humans cannot attempt the same approach for that will take incredible amount of time. Pseudo AI on the other-hand have enormous computing resources so it's viable approach to them.

It's workable for engineering solutions which can actually lead to new inventions, even ground-breaking ones. The AI method has an advantage of being much more meticulous and easily look at directions we are likely to overlook leading to more efficient solutions.

Modern CAD / CAM software with in-built simulation environment is approaching that sophistication, making it actually easy for non-engineers to design components with full material, test, and manufacturing analysis that would pass engineering scrutiny.
 
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timewerx

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Not a good example. Great 0.1% might have a job.

Good point. The idea behind automation is to reduce human factor which will hopefully lead to increase in profits or cheaper quality products. The inevitable outcome is more people out of jobs.

We don't feel the effect yet because a large % of the industry is still depending on human workers.

However, at some point, the "feedback effect" of evolving automation tech and cheaper products due to automation will eventually make "utility or productivity robots" and the tech quite affordable enough for everyone.

That is the point were many will be out of jobs. Then who will now buy products the robots made with many out of jobs and out of money? The question you asked earlier.

One could argue the robot industry will create many new job opportunities. Ironically, not many have the technical aptitude of able to work with modern electronics and the programming aspect of it.

You might be able to break down the repair aspect into very basic modular procedures but ironically, it becomes simple enough for even robots to do it.

It just won't work out for everyone.

The rest of the population would be at the mercy of the 0.1% with jobs it can quickly turn into a very ugly scenario. Organized crime thrives on situations like these - huge income gap between rich and poor, many desperate individuals willing to do anything, even break the law just to live for the day.

World statistics show very strong correlation between organized crime, crime rates, and overall quality of life with income gap situation.

The solution is free money/income, free education, and free healthcare, and if resources remain limited, enforce max quota purchase (also to avoid market inflation).
 
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SkyWriting

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"Pseudo AI" tend to solve problems by "brute force". Extrapolating multiple possible outcomes piece by piece and choosing one that is tested or simulated to be superior than other configurations.

We humans cannot attempt the same approach for that will take incredible amount of time. Pseudo AI on the other-hand have enormous computing resources so it's viable approach to them.

It's workable for engineering solutions which can actually lead to new inventions, even ground-breaking ones. The AI method has an advantage of being much more meticulous and easily look at directions we are likely to overlook leading to more efficient solutions.

Modern CAD / CAM software with in-built simulation environment is approaching that sophistication, making it actually easy for non-engineers to design components with full material, test, and manufacturing analysis that would pass engineering scrutiny.

Which is why a toilet seat for the space station is pricey.

5b7f2bf689c8a119008b595c
 
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SkyWriting

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Not a good example. Great 0.1% might have a job.

We could employ every living person with tasks to do. Even the most severely disabled. Even children in grade school could have paid work to do while they learn at the same time.
 
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SkyWriting

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Hobbies can be very good substitute.

Many, if not most successfully retired peoples keep themselves busy, even productive, and entertained with hobbies.
Right. I purpose paid work for every person alive.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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It's a lot simpler and practical than you think. Similar directed energy weapons are now available for crowd control use while avoiding collateral damage:

Active Denial System - Wikipedia

Here it describes Active Denial also destroying electronics:

Directed-energy weapon - Wikipedia

First link also tells you (implicitly) how to turn the ADS from non-lethal into lethal killing weapon by simply lowering the frequency to allow deeper penetration of human tissue.
The ADS in the first article damages by surface heating at millimetre frequencies - it could inflict more serious damage, but there's no indication of lethality (that article also says it won't damage electronics).

The second article suggests that shielding would protect electronics. I would expect practical brain implants to be shielded - not least from currents induced by brain scanners.

How do you suppose an MRI can scan the brain if brain is insulated from EM?:wave:
I said it was well-insulated, not that it was impermeable. Brain scanners use extremely intense fields and extremely sensitive detectors. But consider that one of the problems with ECGs is that only bulk brain activity can be detected via scalp electrodes and deep brain activity may not be detectable at all.

Personally, I prefer robots replacing me than having my brain tampered with. The brain is totally fine without chip. We've managed so well before without it.
I broadly agree. I think we can interface with the brain without necessarily implanting chips.
 
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timewerx

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The ADS in the first article damages by surface heating at millimetre frequencies - it could inflict more serious damage, but there's no indication of lethality (that article also says it won't damage electronics).

The 2nd link mentioned ADS's destructiveness to unshielded electronics.

If you use lower frequency, you'll achieve deeper penetration of the body. It's mentioned in the first link.

The lower the frequency, the deeper the penetration and the more lethal the effect would become due to damage to internal organs (although an assassin would likely try to minimize damaging internal organs to minimize evidence). Because the ADS is designed to be non-lethal, the frequencies chosen avoid deep penetration. But wouldn't be that hard to *illegally* modify it to work in lethal mode in unsanctioned / covert missions.

The second article suggests that shielding would protect electronics. I would expect practical brain implants to be shielded - not least from currents induced by brain scanners.

EM shielding tend to be made of conductive or semi-conductive materials. The good news, it can make the device immune to damage EMP or high energy radio beams.

The bad news, the shielding can act as an antenna (because they tend to be made of conductive or semi-conductive materials) and as I've mentioned many times before, antenna inside the brain is totally bad and avoid at all cost.

Even without shield, the chip itself is made of either or both semi or conductive materials and still makes it an antenna.

I broadly agree. I think we can interface with the brain without necessarily implanting chips.

I also agree here. I don't mind interfacing with the brain as long as it can be done without getting a chip inside the brain.
 
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timewerx

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We could employ every living person with tasks to do. Even the most severely disabled. Even children in grade school could have paid work to do while they learn at the same time.

An alternative is just buy robot to work and make money for you. It will become a reality very soon with self-driving cars or robot drivers configured to work with Uber.

The only thing you need do is assign your robo-car to work in a location you think is most profitable.
 
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Goonie

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An alternative is just buy robot to work and make money for you. It will become a reality very soon with self-driving cars or robot drivers configured to work with Uber.

The only thing you need do is assign your robo-car to work in a location you think is most profitable.
Sorry. We cannot supply your robo-car due to Uber ordering millions of said robocars. No room for the individual owner.
 
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timewerx

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Sorry. We cannot supply your robo-car due to Uber ordering millions of said robocars. No room for the individual owner.

Uber's actually doing that? I guess we'll be needing free income after all.

Ignoring all conspiracy theories, I'm an optimist when it comes to the free income package. If not the government, a self-sustaining outsider community would form independent of the global economy with its own form of currency/economy while also taking advantage of full automation.

The younger population tend to be attracted to alternative financial systems that can make earning or holding to money easier as many countries in Europe have already done and for some time already, making those countries, the happiest place to live and statistics prove it!

Ironically, in some countries, they only see problems if the situation is impacting the rich.:doh:They show very little concern for the poor. At least some countries in Europe is going the right thing and now reaping rewards because of it like very low crime rates and happy citizens.
 
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Ophiolite

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Uber's actually doing that? I guess we'll be needing free income after all.

Ignoring all conspiracy theories, I'm an optimist when it comes to the free income package. If not the government, a self-sustaining outsider community would form independent of the global economy with its own form of currency/economy while also taking advantage of full automation.

The younger population tend to be attracted to alternative financial systems that can make earning or holding to money easier as many countries in Europe have already done and for some time already, making those countries, the happiest place to live and statistics prove it!

Ironically, in some countries, they only see problems if the situation is impacting the rich.:doh:They show very little concern for the poor. At least some countries in Europe is going the right thing and now reaping rewards because of it like very low crime rates and happy citizens.
A cornucopia of claims. Anything to back any of them up?
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Ignoring all conspiracy theories, I'm an optimist when it comes to the free income package. If not the government, a self-sustaining outsider community would form independent of the global economy with its own form of currency/economy while also taking advantage of full automation.

The younger population tend to be attracted to alternative financial systems that can make earning or holding to money easier as many countries in Europe have already done and for some time already, making those countries, the happiest place to live and statistics prove it!
Finland is currently the country rated happiest in the world(!). They recently trialled a universal basic income that had little effect on employment but did make people a little happier. They haven't yet decided whether to implement it.

Interestingly, their economy has relatively low growth, and there seems to be a correlation between hig-growth countries being less happy and low-growth countries being happier - a hint that will probably be ignored...

At least some countries in Europe is going the right thing and now reaping rewards because of it like very low crime rates and happy citizens.
Northern Europe is doing particularly well for happiness - Denmark is 2nd, Switzerland 3rd, Iceland 4th, Netherlands 5th, Norway 6th, Sweden 7th, Luxemburg 8th... They generally have high taxes, generous social welfare benefits, including free health care, relatively humane justice systems, and low levels of violent crime.
 
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