Is King James onlyism a heresy?

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GreekOrthodox

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Agreed! Now, all we need to do is convince everyone else of this self-evident truth.

Sigh, y'all mean that my Greek is useless and now I have to learn Korean... The only Korean I know is from K-Pop songs!
 
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Sigh, y'all mean that my Greek is useless and now I have to learn Korean... The only Korean I know is from K-Pop songs!

The real issue is believing in a perfect Bible as Psalms 12:6-7 says.

Psalms 12:6-7

6 “The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.”​

Note: There are other verses that teach the purity of God’s Words and how His words will be preserved forever.

So the issue is believing what God’s Word says and doing a search to find evidences that back up the best candidate in being the pure Word for today (or finding the existence of actual book of the Lord in Isaiah 34:16). If a person believes another Bible is the perfect and pure Word of God, I would respect them more, but seeing they don’t believe in God’s words that say His words are pure and they have been preserved is the real heart of the issue here. It always come back to the Garden.

Yea, hath God said,…?
 
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The real issue is believing in a perfect Bible as Psalms 12:6-7 says.

Psalms 12:6-7

6 “The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.”​

Note: There are other verses that teach the purity of God’s Words and how His words will be preserved forever.

So the issue is believing what God’s Word says and doing a search to find evidences that back up the best candidate in being the pure Word for today (or finding the existence of actual book of the Lord in Isaiah 34:16). If a person believes another Bible is the perfect and pure Word of God, I would respect them more, but seeing they don’t believe in God’s words that say His words are pure and they have been preserved is the real heart of the issue here. It always come back to the Garden.

Yea, hath God said,…?
The originals ALONE were inspired and perfect, as NO translation ever has been, nor are they required to be such!
 
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ChetSinger

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The originals ALONE were inspired and perfect, as NO translation ever has been, nor are they required to be such!
Indeed. We even have the New Testament itself quoting from both the Septuagint and the Hebrew text, indicating those writers used whatever they had.
 
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The originals ALONE were inspired and perfect, as NO translation ever has been, nor are they required to be such!

Originals Only are Perfect” is purely a faith based statement that comes from Modern Scholars and it is not a statement that actually comes from what the Bible teaches.

In the Bible: We can see a pattern of God preserving copies of His Word, and not the original autographs.

(a) Moses destroyed the original 10 Commandments on tablets of stone (the original autograph) (Exodus 32:19), and yet a copy was perfectly made to replace it (Exodus 34:1-4).

(b) King Jehoiakim burns the scroll of Jeremiah (Jeremiah 36:22-23), but God had Jeremiah make another copy (Jeremiah 36:27-28).

(c) Proverbs 25:1 says, “These are also proverbs of Solomon, which the men of Hezekiah king of Judah copied out.” (Proverbs 25:1).​

In the New Testament, Philip heard the Ethiopian eunuch read from a manuscript of Isaiah.

“And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?” (Acts of the Apostles 8:30).

Although Scripture does not specifically say this was a copy of Isaiah, and not the original autograph of Isaiah, logic dictates that the most plausible explanation is that the Ethiopian eunuch had a copy of a manuscript of Isaiah (and not the original). For the odds of him just happening to have the original would seem highly unlikely.

Philip calls this copy of Isaiah he possessed as Scripture.

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.” (Acts of the Apostles 8:35).

2 Timothy 3:16 says all Scripture is given by inspiration of God.
So the copy of this Scripture was inspired by God.

So the belief of “Originals Only are Perfect” that says that we need to look to the original autograph because it is perfect, and the copies are flawed and full of errors is unbiblical. Believers in God's Word can trust that God has preserved a copy of His Word for us today that is perfect (Which would be consistent in the way God operates involving the preservation of His Word). This then leads us to conclude that there must be a perfect Bible that we can find today.
 
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The originals ALONE were inspired and perfect, as NO translation ever has been, nor are they required to be such!

Another problem I have the religion of Modern Scholarship that says: “Originals Only are Perfect” is that who gets to decide what are the words of God in the Bible vs. what are not the words of God in the Bible? Each person differs exactly on what should be in the Bible. In fact, Modern shapeshifter bibles change every few years to retain their copyrights (for more filthy lucre) cannot seem to make up their mind on what the Bible actually says. Yet, there is that ole trusty King James Bible that has not changed so drastically like other Modern bibles. My bible does not attack the deity of Christ, the Trinity, the blood atonement, place the devil’s name it where it does not belong. My bible does not make Jesus appear to sin, etcetera. There are so many red flags in Modern Bibles it’s not even funny to say the least. But people like to see what they want to see of course (without doing an unbiased investigation on the matter).
 
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bbbbbbb

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Another problem I have the religion of Modern Scholarship that says: “Originals Only are Perfect” is that who gets to decide what are the words of God in the Bible vs. what are not the words of God in the Bible? Each person differs exactly on what should be in the Bible. In fact, Modern shapeshifter bibles change every few years to retain their copyrights (for more filthy lucre) cannot seem to make up their mind on what the Bible actually says. Yet, there is that ole trusty King James Bible that has not changed so drastically like other Modern bibles. My bible does not attack the deity of Christ, the Trinity, the blood atonement, place the devil’s name it where it does not belong. My bible does not make Jesus appear to sin, etcetera. There are so many red flags in Modern Bibles it’s not even funny to say the least. But people like to see what they want to see of course (without doing an unbiased investigation on the matter).

One thing we all agree on is that no translation is an "original" manuscript. That includes, of course, not only the KJV, but translations into every other language in the world.

The distinct advantage that Christianity has over Islam is that, unlike Islam which requires its adherent to read the (heavily edited) Q'ran in Arabic only and to conform to Arabic culture of the seventh century, Christianity embraces translations into other languages, including the Latin used by the RCC, and is relatively flexible in adapting to other cultural settings insofar as they do not violate teaching of the Bible.
 
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One thing we all agree on is that no translation is an "original" manuscript. That includes, of course, not only the KJV, but translations into every other language in the world.

The distinct advantage that Christianity has over Islam is that, unlike Islam which requires its adherent to read the (heavily edited) Q'ran in Arabic only and to conform to Arabic culture of the seventh century, Christianity embraces translations into other languages, including the Latin used by the RCC, and is relatively flexible in adapting to other cultural settings insofar as they do not violate teaching of the Bible.
How KJKVO view the Kjv bible is exactly how Muslims have venerated the Koran!
 
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YeshuaFan

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Another problem I have the religion of Modern Scholarship that says: “Originals Only are Perfect” is that who gets to decide what are the words of God in the Bible vs. what are not the words of God in the Bible? Each person differs exactly on what should be in the Bible. In fact, Modern shapeshifter bibles change every few years to retain their copyrights (for more filthy lucre) cannot seem to make up their mind on what the Bible actually says. Yet, there is that ole trusty King James Bible that has not changed so drastically like other Modern bibles. My bible does not attack the deity of Christ, the Trinity, the blood atonement, place the devil’s name it where it does not belong. My bible does not make Jesus appear to sin, etcetera. There are so many red flags in Modern Bibles it’s not even funny to say the least. But people like to see what they want to see of course (without doing an unbiased investigation on the matter).
Interesting that the Church NEVER held to any perfect translation, neither did the 1611 translators themselves!
 
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Many Baptist fundies hold on to this doctrine, is it a heresy?All it does is divide the Church, it doesnt help the Kingdom of God...

Heresy NOT to believe the KJV? Some say Francis Bacon did the editing... are they heretics?
 
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pescador

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The originals ALONE were inspired and perfect, as NO translation ever has been, nor are they required to be such!

Just a reminder that the originals don't exist, or at least haven't been discovered yet. All that exist are copies, and these differ in some places. A translation cannot be a perfect rendition of the early languages, as there are too many differences between the vocabulary, verbs tenses, idioms, etc. The best we can hope for is a translation that creates in our minds what it created in the original hearers.

By definition, that excludes the King James translation, as none of those who lived in the 17th Century are alive today and neither is their archaic Englyshe.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Just a reminder that the originals don't exist, or at least haven't been discovered yet. All that exist are copies, and these differ in some places. A translation cannot be a perfect rendition of the early languages, as there are too many differences between the vocabulary, verbs tenses, idioms, etc. The best we can hope for is a translation that creates in our minds what it created in the original hearers.

By definition, that excludes the King James translation, as none of those who lived in the 17th Century are alive today and neither is their archaic Englyshe.

Also quite true. This is also ironically true in Islam. There is a popular perception that Mohammed received the Q'ran from Allah intact and complete and that it remains in its original form. The reality, however, is quite different. Mohammed, being illiterate, wrote nothing, but dictated to scribes who wrote various statements on palm leaves. Nothing was carved in stone. These various statements were collected after his death and sorted out, with a large number being consigned to the fire because they were believed to be Satanic verses. With the purged remnant of verses, a book, the Q'ran, was assembled. It is not at all like the Bible, having no narrative structure, but is a rather curious and random set of statements (sutras), probably closest to the book of Proverbs in the Bible.

Salmon Rushdie, the famous Muslim author, managed to get a fatwah (a death sentence) imposed on himself by writing a book called The Satanic Verses (which is a direct reference to the writings of Mohammed which were burned prior to the establishment of the Q'ran). Thanks to the British government Mr. Rushdie has managed to life safely to the present.
 
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Note: There are other verses that teach the purity of God’s Words and how His words will be preserved forever.
In English,of course.
So the issue is believing what God’s Word says and doing a search to find evidences that back up the best candidate in being the pure Word for today
In English, of course.

If a person believes another Bible is the perfect and pure Word of God, I would respect them more
As long as they're in English, of course.

It always come back to the Garden.
Sounds more like old fashioned hubris to me. "Hey, God's Definitive Version of the Scriptures has to be in English because English is the best language." Right. Could it actually be in Korean? Well no, of course not. There are only a hundred million or so Koreans worldwide. How about Chinese? Nope, that won't do. Only about 1.5 billion (look it up) Chinese worldwide. Lessee, 1.4 thousand million in India. Might the HIndi version be a good thing? Nah, gotta be English, because that's God's Language, by jingo! (Yes, I chose that phrase intentionally.)

Pride, mate, pure and simple. Our Language is Best, so Our Bible is The Word of God.

Me? I reckon God can get it said in every language, even those spoken by people who Aren't Like Us (kinda like half of my forebears.)
 
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bbbbbbb

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In English,of course.
In English, of course.

As long as they're in English, of course.

Sounds more like old fashioned hubris to me. "Hey, God's Definitive Version of the Scriptures has to be in English because English is the best language." Right. Could it actually be in Korean? Well no, of course not. There are only a hundred million or so Koreans worldwide. How about Chinese? Nope, that won't do. Only about 1.5 billion (look it up) Chinese worldwide. Lessee, 1.4 thousand million in India. Might the HIndi version be a good thing? Nah, gotta be English, because that's God's Language, by jingo! (Yes, I chose that phrase intentionally.)

Pride, mate, pure and simple. Our Language is Best, so Our Bible is The Word of God.

Me? I reckon God can get it said in every language, even those spoken by people who Aren't Like Us (kinda like half of my forebears.)

A good friend of mine who has traveled widely in Europe told me about a church group in Germany that conducts their services entirely in English even though most of the members do not speak or write it. The reason is really rather bizarre, to say the least. The German word for angel is very similar to the word for English. They concluded that the language of angels, therefore, is Angelish (or English) and, therefore, that is God's language.

Forget Hebrew or Greek or Aramaic - just go for the English.
 
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In English,of course.
In English, of course.

As long as they're in English, of course.

Sounds more like old fashioned hubris to me. "Hey, God's Definitive Version of the Scriptures has to be in English because English is the best language." Right. Could it actually be in Korean? Well no, of course not. There are only a hundred million or so Koreans worldwide. How about Chinese? Nope, that won't do. Only about 1.5 billion (look it up) Chinese worldwide. Lessee, 1.4 thousand million in India. Might the HIndi version be a good thing? Nah, gotta be English, because that's God's Language, by jingo! (Yes, I chose that phrase intentionally.)

Pride, mate, pure and simple. Our Language is Best, so Our Bible is The Word of God.

Me? I reckon God can get it said in every language, even those spoken by people who Aren't Like Us (kinda like half of my forebears.)

First, English is the world language.

The most spoken languages in the world | Berlitz
How English became the global language | EF English Live
Why is English Considered a Global Language?
10 Reasons Why English Is The World’s Language | English Harmony

This is consistent with how God operated in the past in that He did not keep the Scriptures in the Hebrew for the New Testament but He preserved them in Greek (Which was the world language at that time).

Second, this is not the sole reason why the King James Bible is the perfect Word of God. It’s more of a systematic approach of many reasons leading the reader to believe in Psalms 12:6-7. I have come up with 101 good points for the King James Bible being the pure Word of God for today. Granted, the Modern Vatican bibles or Westcott and Hort bibles alters the truth of Psalms 12:6-7.

See, what you fail to understand is that this is not so much of an attack on the KJB, but this is really about an attack upon the doctrine of Preservation and the doctrine of Inerrancy (Which are taught even to a lesser degree in Modern bibles). The King James Bible is the best candidate in fulfilling Psalms 12:6-7. No other bible comes close to doing that. One either disbelieves this passage or they seek out the book of the Lord to read from (See: Isaiah 34:16).

Do you really have the inerrant perfect words of God in your hands or not?
If not, then who gets to decide which words are true vs. which words are not true?
That is too much power for anyone to be able to determine such a thing - IMHO.
For one has to sit in the seat of God so as to determine what He said. It’s not, “Thus saith the Lord,” but it is “thus saith the scholar,” or “thus saith the Modern Scholarship Follower.”
 
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In English,of course.
In English, of course.

As long as they're in English, of course.

Sounds more like old fashioned hubris to me. "Hey, God's Definitive Version of the Scriptures has to be in English because English is the best language." Right. Could it actually be in Korean? Well no, of course not. There are only a hundred million or so Koreans worldwide. How about Chinese? Nope, that won't do. Only about 1.5 billion (look it up) Chinese worldwide. Lessee, 1.4 thousand million in India. Might the HIndi version be a good thing? Nah, gotta be English, because that's God's Language, by jingo! (Yes, I chose that phrase intentionally.)

Pride, mate, pure and simple. Our Language is Best, so Our Bible is The Word of God.

Me? I reckon God can get it said in every language, even those spoken by people who Aren't Like Us (kinda like half of my forebears.)

Also, many think it is unfair that the Bible would be preserved perfectly in archaic English.

“But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;” (1 Corinthians 1:27).​

In addition, is it fair that not every country does not have the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 yet?

Surely not.

Besides…

The King James is available in other languages:

Textus Receptus in Spanish (RVG 2010):
https://www.amazon.com/Santa-Biblia-Rústica-Valera-Spanish/dp/0758907567/

King James Francais in French:
Bible King James Française | King James Française

Koning Jacobus Vertaling in Dutch:
http://www.koningjacobusvertaling.org/info_english.php

Bibelen Guds Ord in Norwegian:
http://www.hermon.no/netbibelen/

Thai King James Bible Version:
The Bible (พระคัมภีร์ไทย)

Korean King James Version:
https://www.amazon.com/Korean-English-Bible-Leather-Golden/dp/B005DPPENA/

Brazillian Portuguese (the BKJ):
Bíblia King James Fiel 1611
 
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A good friend of mine who has traveled widely in Europe told me about a church group in Germany that conducts their services entirely in English even though most of the members do not speak or write it. The reason is really rather bizarre, to say the least. The German word for angel is very similar to the word for English. They concluded that the language of angels, therefore, is Angelish (or English) and, therefore, that is God's language.

Forget Hebrew or Greek or Aramaic - just go for the English.

Well, they should speak and preach the Word of God in their own language. But if they were to actually understand English, it would benefit them greatly because it is a living language (Unlike Hebrew, and Greek). They can seek to read and study the King James Bible in the 1600’s English. While 1600’s English is archaic, they still relatively recent to our Modern English to figure out with an English dictionary (without any nefarious religious bias or beliefs from Modern scholars involving the original languages).
 
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