Religion fears Science

Captain Ahab

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The only evidence is the Bible

Good enough for me. After all, as a Christian, the Bible is the yardstick by which I measure what is truth. I don’t first consider the ‘knowledge’ (so-called) of man and use that as the yardstick by which I measure what is truth in the Bible. And when the Bible and ‘knowledge’ (so-called) of man are in conflict, I stick with the former and not the latter.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Timothy 3:16

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Romans 3:4
 
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Halbhh

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The only evidence is the Bible. There are no other records describing it, and to date there has been no archaeological evidence of the [first] Temple at all.

You are familiar with the reality that God wants us to have 'faith' -- which is repeatedly defined to be to believe in God without first seeing proofs -- to believe in His miracles and rescue of us and more, and we get the wordings that this faith is defined as belief before/without seeing proof?

This is a very helpful thing to keep in mind when thinking about 'evidence', of course....because any evidence available that would clearly and plainly prove some miracle would instantly remove the opportunity for new converts to have that faith God wants of us:

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of what we hope for and the certainty of what we do not see.

So....here's the question: for a particular evidence that does exist and has been found -- is it of a kind that would just provide clear and conclusive proof of one of God's miracles and/or thus His existence?

If so, we'd be in a very serious problem in Christianity.

If such was around, available, then we would not need faith to know God exists and some would then just with cunning calculation choose to pragmatically obey His commands to gain the promises such as eternal life for the righteous without any real trust in Him.... (of course, faith is to trust God) (and fortunately for most of us, faith itself is counted as righteousness! (Romans))

Discovered new evidence that just plainly proved God would be a very bad outcome for what we learn is best in the New Testament.

Those that don't trust God certainly don't belong in His house forever with Him....
Such a person that could from fear and desire manage to gain eternal life without truly trusting God would be a danger, perhaps even such a person (who didn't trust God) might even start a war in heaven or such, or commit other wrongs.

So, of course, God is able and we can expect has removed evidence that would prove some clear proof of Himself or a miracle that any skeptic could just examine to find out whether He exists.

I wonder if Solomon's grand temple itself might be bordering on such evidence, since, as you reasonably chose it as an example, it was a very magnificent thing, a very remarkable building, and might even constitute a kind of proof of the amazing level of prosperity Israel had at that time. It might be a little more proof than is best to have around....
 
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Halbhh

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I might have gotten long winded with my thesis lol. For me believing in god is easy. But I hear repeatedly Christians going about the earth and universe being a measly 10k years old at most and that is ridiculous. I know the bible we read now was created 300-400 BC, I know it was edited and I know it has been translated more times than we can count. I can also figure that the Jewish people had parables and myths and they ended up in the bible just like every other culture. I think the bible is a good book on how to have a relationship with Christ and I believe in much of the new testament, the old testament not so much.

Re the age of the older books in the Hebrew Bible, those older books are typically thought to be between 2,700-3,500 years old, including by secular scholars (who tend towards the 2700 year area). (Book of Deuteronomy - Wikipedia

Say, have you ever read in the New Testament to where you got to the book of Hebrews? It's interesting to read the way it summarizes what is plainly visible in the Older texts, the Old Testament. (viz Hebrews 11 NIV)
 
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wonderkins

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I might have gotten long winded with my thesis lol. For me believing in god is easy. But I hear repeatedly Christians going about the earth and universe being a measly 10k years old at most and that is ridiculous. I know the bible we read now was created 300-400 BC, I know it was edited and I know it has been translated more times than we can count. I can also figure that the Jewish people had parables and myths and they ended up in the bible just like every other culture. I think the bible is a good book on how to have a relationship with Christ and I believe in much of the new testament, the old testament not so much.
How was the Bible we read created in 300-400 bc when the events of the new testament happened in the first century ad (meaning the people who wrote the new testament didn’t exist yet), and the Canon wasn't established until later than that? Or was bc a typo?

What did those edits change? How is our Bible different than the original? Where is the original? What was edited?

Which Jewish myths are in the Bible? Will you direct us to the book where they are found?
 
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Blaise N

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Religion especially Christianity has always feared science in all of its forms. The reason for this, it proves many biblical belief false. Copernicus and Galileo with telescopes figured out the earth is not the center of the universe and the church fought furiously to prevent that information from being spread.

Biology, Geology, Astronomy, Archeology all have disproved many things in the bible and Christianity fears that and so does Islam. The earth is not flat nor the center of the universe, Natural Disasters is nature acting up not punishment from god. Diseases are not caused by evil spirits but by germs. Geology, Archeology, and Astronomy have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the earth and universe are much older than religion likes to admit.
The bible is a book written over 2,000 yrs. ago by fisherman and goat herders, has been translated into and out of 100s of languages, by human beings, depending on the language one word can mean several thing. Evolution, Astronomy, Biology, Geology, Archeology, science in all its forms threatens Christians more than most. It does not threaten me, it proves the existence of god to me. If you look at how complex the universe is you can see a designer behind it. I believe in Christ, I also know that the New Testament has been edited books have been removed. I believe the bible to be a book designed to show us how to have a relationship with god, I think much of it that many consider fact is just parable and myth.
I agree,I’m so passionate about God and his majesty.I don’t fear death or persecution by atheists or unbelievers,I fear their harsh actions of trying to disprove the most precious aspect of my life.I hold God and how awesome he is to my heart so dearly that I fear heartbreak.I prefer to leave the front lines to the strongest apologists like Hugh Ross,Lee Strobel,and William Lane Craig.
 
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coffee4u

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Religion especially Christianity has always feared science in all of its forms. The reason for this, it proves many biblical belief false. Copernicus and Galileo with telescopes figured out the earth is not the center of the universe and the church fought furiously to prevent that information from being spread.

Biology, Geology, Astronomy, Archeology all have disproved many things in the bible and Christianity fears that and so does Islam. The earth is not flat nor the center of the universe, Natural Disasters is nature acting up not punishment from god. Diseases are not caused by evil spirits but by germs. Geology, Archeology, and Astronomy have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the earth and universe are much older than religion likes to admit.
The bible is a book written over 2,000 yrs. ago by fisherman and goat herders, has been translated into and out of 100s of languages, by human beings, depending on the language one word can mean several thing. Evolution, Astronomy, Biology, Geology, Archeology, science in all its forms threatens Christians more than most. It does not threaten me, it proves the existence of god to me. If you look at how complex the universe is you can see a designer behind it. I believe in Christ, I also know that the New Testament has been edited books have been removed. I believe the bible to be a book designed to show us how to have a relationship with god, I think much of it that many consider fact is just parable and myth.

Build a straw man- Back it up with nothing but your own opinion-uphold it as truth.

Before you say no you didn't do that, where is your proof?
You made this post claiming a whole bunch of stuff so the onus is on you to back up what you say and prove your points.

>>>Religion especially Christianity has always feared science in all of its forms.
Religion can't fear anything, only individual people can. People can be religious and fear science but this does mean religion fears science.

>>>The reason for this, it proves many biblical belief false.
So much faith in the words spoken by secular men and atheists, do you even hear yourself? They will denounce the resurrection of Christ and every other miracle outlined in the Bible just as strongly, will you stand with them?

Copernicus and Galileo with telescopes figured out the earth is not the center of the universe
And your point is?

If you look across CF you will see lots of people with various opinions. I am sure we can bunch certain beliefs together, for example there are Universalist's who believe in the salvation of all souls, most SDA's strongly believe in keeping the Sabbath and many Catholics hold that Mary never sinned or died.

So back to this whole belief in "the earth in the centre of the universe thing"
You're saying that I, as someone who holds to 6 day creation, should in some way feel bad because a group of men some hundreds of years ago expounded on the "the earth is the centre of the universe"?
Have I got your intentions here? Please explain if not. Or did you toss that in for giggles?

>>>and the church fought furiously to prevent that information from being spread.
Are you are claiming that every single Christian believed and upheld this?
Am I supposed to care deeply about what these groups believed in?

I am trying very hard to see the connection here. Am I somehow to blame and connected to what the Universalist's, SDA's and Catholics say about things too?
Or do I get a pass from them, just not from the group who held to "the earth in the centre of the universe"?

>>>Biology, Geology, Astronomy, Archeology all have disproved many things in the bible
Which bits left in scripture should we all believe in then?

Every single 'proof' that people have is built upon a foundation of assumptions.
It doesn't matter which field you look to, they all have their own particular unproven base assumptions that the science is then built upon.
Radiocarbon dating relies on the assumption that organic or inorganic materials were in equilibrium with the production of 14C in the atmosphere.
No one can prove that because no was there to measure it. It is assumed and then the dating method is built upon the assumption.

When you claim that >>>Biology, Geology, Astronomy, Archeology all have disproved many things in the bible you are claiming that the base assumptions these fields are built upon are completely accurate with no proof that they are. You know what that is? It's faith. You have more faith in the assumptions secular men use than you do in scripture.

>>>The earth is not flat
Again with the claims, are you claiming scripture teaches this or some random group?
If so verse please.

>>>nor the center of the universe
Verse?

>>>Natural Disasters is nature acting up not punishment from god

'gods' certainly can't do such things but God can. Might want to watch how you use God's name there.


So you are claiming that God cannot change the weather? It is impossible for him to do so? So when Jesus calmed the storm he didn't really calm the storm and when God sent the global flood he didn't actually send a flood, its just that we poor sops misunderstood?

>>>Diseases are not caused by evil spirits but by germs.
Because demons don't exist right? Because all the scripture talking about them, that's all misunderstood too.
And I guess where God gave them hygiene laws to deal with germs we will overlook that part? Please quote the verse where scripture teaches that all disease is caused by evil spirits.


>>>Geology, Archeology, and Astronomy have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the earth and universe are much older than religion likes to admit.
Because their unproven assumptions such as (organic or inorganic materials were in equilibrium with the production of 14C in the atmosphere.) is unshakable and unquestionable , got it. I guess they got that information from the one who created it and he handed it to them on a plate. Or did they take a time machine? Or maybe they are really God so they know because they created it?

Maybe you can explain how the assumptions are proven? Is it proven because the outcome matches them? Now isn't that a surprise.

You realize I don't have to look at creation materials to find the words assumptions all over the place? It is secular sources that use the word, like science direct Radiocarbon Dating - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics
The newly formed 14C is oxidized to 14CO2 where it enters the biosphere. Radiocarbon dating relies on the assumption that organic or inorganic materials were in equilibrium with the production of 14C in the atmosphere (Jull, 2018), and that the 14C in the organism will decay, converting 14C back to 14N through beta decay, following the death of the organism. Through this process, radiocarbon has a half-life of 5568 years
It wasn't me that came up with the word assumptions, secular science knows itself that all of its findings are built upon these base unproven assumptions, many of them.
When you claim what they say is true you are really claiming that their base assumptions are correct even without proof. That's faith.


>>>The bible is a book written over 2,000 yrs. ago by fisherman and goat herders,
So the Bible is just the words of fisherman and goat herders, not God?

2 Timothy 3:16-17


16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

So those verses are lies?

If the entire Bible is just the words of fishermen and goat herders why read any of it?
>>>designed to show us how to have a relationship with god.
But you just expounded at length on why their words are untruthful and untrustworthy. If their words are so untruthful and untrustworthy why should anyone, let alone you, trust them to connect you to the living God?
Again you used the word god, gods are demons.)

I doubt you will reply to this but if you do please answer the questions. It gets so tiresome to ask questions and get no reply to them. Questions are those sentences with question marks at the end.
 
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Torah Keeper

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Ahab according to the bible Solomon was the wisest richest most powerful man of his time. Everyone came to him for advice. Why is it that? In Jewish history this time is known as the First Temple period, and begins at around 1,000BC. What evidence is there that the Temple of Solomon existed? The only evidence is the Bible. There are no other records describing it, and to date there has been no archaeological evidence of the Temple at all.

Every major culture in History over the last 6000 years has left archeological evidence of there existence outside the bible much of the old testament can not be proven. Why is that...if Solomon existed and he was as powerful and rich as the bible says he was is there no archeological evidence of him. And I am not talking about biased documents miraculously found by Christians...those never hold up well to archaeological microscope. Sumeria over 6000 years ago and there remembered there is evidence of there existence, Egypt, Persia, Greece, Rome every major culture in history has left physical evidence for all to see...the only evidence you have is the bible...again a book written by goat headers and fisherman. Translated and (EDITED...THAT IS A FACT) hundreds of time. Again I can believe in god and Christ there is physical evidence of Jesus's existence most historians event the atheist believe he existed, his divinity is matter of faith...but he existed. I believe the bible to be part history, and part parable and myth. Find me respected unbiased evidence of Solomon's existence, you can not cause there is none.

Please do an internet search before you spout nonsense.

For starters, just off the top of my head:
  • Solomon erected 2 pillars on either side of the Red Sea crossing at Nuweiba, and on the Arabian side. These pillars still exist, although one fell down.
  • Solomon's copper foundry in Ezion Geber still exists. Go there on a tour guide if you want.
  • The first Temple foundation still exists in Jerusalem today. Yes, the one built by King Solomon himself. The very foundation.
  • The palace of King David has been partially excavated. This palace was in all probability where Solomon was raised.
  • You are asking about one king in a long list of kings, from 3,000 years ago, and comparing evidence for one king, to evidence of entire civilizations. Apples to oranges here.
 
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GenemZ

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Religion especially Christianity has always feared science in all of its forms. The reason for this, it proves many biblical belief false. Copernicus and Galileo with telescopes figured out the earth is not the center of the universe and the church fought furiously to prevent that information from being spread.

These types of discussions can be very discouraging.

Christians who willfully remain ignorant of God's Word will not know how to deal with several speculations made by science. In fact, good science will prove the Bible correct when the Bible itself is correctly understood.

That means, there is a must for gaining knowledge of what the Hebrew teaches about creation. Unfortunately, lazy minds get defensive and form into group mentality and never learn. What they come up with is no answer, but remains their answer. Only when the truth is finally seen does scientific discovery of the prehistoric world begin to make sense. No evolution. God created both the old world, and our present world.

Some think of God creating the prehistoric world is not how God does things. Yet, do they not know that right now we are living in a world, that in the future will be prehistoric!

“See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind."
(Isa 65:17​


And, one of the worst fallacies that muddies the waters (and gives evolutionists freedom to reign with public opinion) is the young earth premise. The Bible does not teach a young earth. It teaches of a prehistoric world and then its replacement with our current created world.

These arguments are spiritual....
 
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Clare73

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Religion especially Christianity has always feared science in all of its forms. The reason for this, it proves many biblical belief false. Copernicus and Galileo with telescopes figured out the earth is not the center of the universe and the church fought furiously to prevent that information from being spread.
How can that be done when all motion in the universe is relative to one's location.

The data can be interpreted either way. . .everything around me is moving in relation to me, or I am moving in relation to everything around me.

I don't get it.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Good enough for me. After all, as a Christian, the Bible is the yardstick by which I measure what is truth. I don’t first consider the ‘knowledge’ (so-called) of man and use that as the yardstick by which I measure what is truth in the Bible. And when the Bible and ‘knowledge’ (so-called) of man are in conflict, I stick with the former and not the latter.


All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Timothy 3:16


God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Romans 3:4

2 Timothy was written by a “man.” Was that “man” a liar? From the very early days of Christianity, the authorship of 2 Timothy has been questioned. Even if it was written by Paul, his statement in 2 Timothy 3:16 may have simply been his own (and possibly wrong) opinion. What evidence do you have regarding these matters? A very good and detailed discussion of these matters can be found in the commentary on the Greek text of the Pastoral Epistles by Walter Lock, the late professor of Divinity in the University of Oxford and Canon of Christ Church. He favors the view that the Pastoral Epistles were written by Paul—but he does not casually assume that they were!

This is an old commentary (1924), but I am referencing it because it is an exceptionally fine commentary and it can be read on line here:

https://archive.org/details/criticalexegetic39lockuoft/page/n11/mode/2up
 
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Clare73

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I might have gotten long winded with my thesis lol. For me believing in god is easy. But I hear repeatedly Christians going about the earth and universe being a measly 10k years old at most and that is ridiculous. I know the bible we read now was created 300-400 BC, I know it was edited and I know it has been translated more times than we can count. I can also figure that the Jewish people had parables and myths and they ended up in the bible just like every other culture. I think the bible is a good book on how to have a relationship with Christ and I believe in much of the new testament, the old testament not so much.
Jesus is not in agreement with you on that.

Jesus believed the OT was the "word of God" in every detail (Matthew 15:6; Luke 5:1, Luke 11:28; John 10:35)
He believed that every jot and tittle of the Law (the OT word for the Scriptures) was the very truth of God, vested with the authority of God and backed by by power of God (Matthew 5:17-19).
To emphasize that the OT was the infallible (wholly trustworthy and reliable), inerrant (wholly true) word of God, Jesus used his regular formula for solemn assertion ("Truly, truly I say to you") when he stated "until heaven and earth disappear, not one tittle (smallest stroke of the writing pen) will by any means disappear from the Law" (Scriptures). (Matthew 5:18; Luke 16:17)

He treated arguments from Scripture as having clinching force. When he said, "It is written," that was final. There was no appeal against Scripture, for "the Scripture cannot be broken." (Matthew 4:4-10; John 10:35). God's Word holds good forever.
He constantly scolded the Jews for their ignorance and neglect of Scripture: "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures?" "Have you not read. . .?" "Go and learn what this means. . ."
(Mark 12:24; Matthew 12:3-5, Matthew 19:4, Matthew 21:16, Matthew 21:42, Matthew 9:13).

Likewise, Jesus himself submitted to the OT as the Word of God. He lived a life of obedience to Scripture (Luke 4:17-21; Matthew 8:16-17, Matthew 11:2-5),
and then he died in obedience to Scripture (Luke 18:31; Mark 8:31, Mark 9:31, Mark 10:33-34; Matthew 26:24; Luke 22:37; Matthew 26:53-56).
When he arose, he explained who he was by the Scriptures (Luke 24:44-47, Luke 24:25).
He presented himself to the Jews as the fulfiller of Scripture (John 5:39-40, John 5:46-47).

And in asserting to the Jews that the OT bore divine authoritative witness to him,
Jesus thereby bore divine authoritative witness to the OT Scriptures.
Belief in the authority and truth of the Scriptures was the foundation of Jesus' whole ministry.

And that included the historical accounts:
Sodom and Gomorrah (Matthew 10:15),
Jonah and the whale (Matthew 12:39-40),
creation account as God's words, though the account is the writer's words (Matthew 19:4-6),
murder of Abel (Matthew 23:35),
Noah and the flood (Matthew 24:37-39),
burning bush and call of Moses (Mark 12:26),
Elijah and the provision for the widow (Luke 4:25-26),
Elisha and Naaman, the Syrian leper (Luke 4:27),
Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt (Luke 17:31-33).
plague of snakes and brazen serpent (
John 3:14),
manna from heaven in the desert for 40 years (John 6:31, John 6:49),
Abraham still alive (John 8:39-40).

According to Jesus, the Word of God written enjoys
absolute authority.
 
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Clare73

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2 Timothy was written by a “man.” Was that “man” a liar? From the very early days of Christianity, the authorship of 2 Timothy has been questioned.
Even if it was written by Paul, his statement in 2 Timothy 3:16 may have simply been his own (and possibly wrong) opinion.

What evidence do you have regarding these matters?
1) When Paul gave his own opinion, he stated it as such (1 Corinthians 7:12, 10, 8).

2) His being caught up to the third heaven (2 Corinthians 12:7-8) and given revelation, some of which he was forbidden to speak (2 Corinthians 12:1-6), and his doctrine coming from no man, including himself, but from Jesus Christ personally (Galatians 1:11-12).

That is just about all the evidence I can handle.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Jesus is not in agreement with you on that.

Jesus believed the OT was the "word of God" in every detail (Matthew 15:6; Luke 5:1, Luke 11:28; John 10:35)
He believed that every jot and tittle of the Law (the OT word for the Scriptures) was the very truth of God, vested with the authority of God and backed by by power of God (Matthew 5:17-19).
To emphasize that the OT was the infallible (wholly trustworthy and reliable), inerrant (wholly true) word of God, Jesus used his regular formula for solemn assertion ("Truly, truly I say to you") when he stated "until heaven and earth disappear, not one tittle (smallest stroke of the writing pen) will by any means disappear from the Law" (Scriptures). (Matthew 5:18; Luke 16:17)

He treated arguments from Scripture as having clinching force. When he said, "It is written," that was final. There was no appeal against Scripture, for "the Scripture cannot be broken." (Matthew 4:4-10; John 10:35). God's Word holds good forever.
He constantly scolded the Jews for their ignorance and neglect of Scripture: "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures?" "Have you not read. . .?" "Go and learn what this means. . ."
(Mark 12:24; Matthew 12:3-5, Matthew 19:4, Matthew 21:16, Matthew 21:42, Matthew 9:13).

Likewise, Jesus himself submitted to the OT as the Word of God. He lived a life of obedience to Scripture (Luke 4:17-21; Matthew 8:16-17, Matthew 11:2-5),
and then he died in obedience to Scripture (Luke 18:31; Mark 8:31, Mark 9:31, Mark 10:33-34; Matthew 26:24; Luke 22:37; Matthew 26:53-56).
When he arose, he explained who he was by the Scriptures (Luke 24:44-47, Luke 24:25).
He presented himself to the Jews as the fulfiller of Scripture (John 5:39-40, John 5:46-47).

And in asserting to the Jews that the OT bore divine authoritative witness to him,
Jesus thereby bore divine authoritative witness to the OT Scriptures.
Belief in the authority and truth of the Scriptures was the foundation of Jesus' whole ministry.

And that included the historical accounts:
Sodom and Gomorrah (Matthew 10:15),
Jonah and the whale (Matthew 12:39-40),
creation account as God's words, though the account is the writer's words (Matthew 19:4-6),
murder of Abel (Matthew 23:35),
Noah and the flood (Matthew 24:37-39),
burning bush and call of Moses (Mark 12:26),
Elijah and the provision for the widow (Luke 4:25-26),
Elisha and Naaman, the Syrian leper (Luke 4:27),
Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt (Luke 17:31-33).
plague of snakes and brazen serpent (
John 3:14),
manna from heaven in the desert for 40 years (John 6:31, John 6:49),
Abraham still alive (John 8:39-40).

According to Jesus, the Word of God written enjoys
absolute authority.
A fundamental teaching of Christianity—both Roman Catholic and Protestant—is that in His earthly ministry, Jesus was both perfectly divine and perfectly human. He had human blood, human bones, a human heart, and a human brain with all of the physical limitations of a human brain. Therefore, His knowledge was limited to the capacity of His brain. In His humanity, Jesus was a first century Jew who, like his neighbors, would have believed that the earth is flat and covered with a dome just like the Bible says in Genesis 1:6-8.

6. And God said, "Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."
7. So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.
8. God called the dome Sky. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day. (NRSV)

He would also have believed that the rest of Genesis 1-11 is an accurate, literal account of actual historical events. Therefore, when He referred to Adam in the first five chapters of Genesis, He was referring to what He believed to be an accurate, literal account—not realizing, in his humanity,—that the creation story was clothed in the cultural beliefs of the ancient Hebrews through whom God chose to give us that part of Scripture. However, the fact that all people have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God is no less true—and it is no less true that Jesus died and shed His blood on the cross for our sins.

If Jesus knew that the earth is spherical, He also knew that the creation story in Genesis is NOT an accurate account of historic events. If Jesus did not know that the earth is spherical, He would have believed that the earth is flat and covered with a solid, supporting structure, that is, a dome!
 
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Clare73

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A fundamental teaching of Christianity—both Roman Catholic and Protestant—is that in His earthly ministry, Jesus was both perfectly divine and perfectly human. He had human blood, human bones, a human heart, and a human brain with all of the physical limitations of a human brain. Therefore, His knowledge was limited to the capacity of His brain.
And what anywhere in Scripture was beyond the capacity of his brain?

Likewise, he had more than a brain. He had a perfectly Holy Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17-18), who gave him spiritual knowledge that none of us are born with.

He was in constant communion with the Father, saying only what the Father told him to say (John 12:49-50, John 14:10, John 4:24, John 8:28).
Neither you, nor anyone else knows the extent of Jesus' knowledge, both natural and divine.

He believed the OT Scriptures were the word of God (Matthew 15:6), and that is good enough for me.
I need no more evidence than the testimony of the Son of God, either for salvation or for the truth of Scripture.
 
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Clare73

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Yes, of course it is.

Some people believe what they want to believe regardless of the truth. Other people want to believe the truth even if the truth makes them feel uncomfortable.
You left out believing what the context of the NT shows.

Biblical assertion without Biblical demonstration is without Biblical merit.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Biblical assertion without Biblical demonstration is without Biblical merit.

Yes, it is. That is why I provided a link to the commentary on the Greek text of the Pastoral Epistles by Walter Lock. In his discussion on the authorship of the Pastoral Epistles, he presented very numerous Scriptures that cast doubt on the Pauline authorship of the Pastoral Epistles; and he also presented very numerous Scriptures that support the Pauline authorship of the Pastoral Epistles. Simply asserting that 2 Timothy came from the pen of the Apostle Paul and therefore has canonical authority is the very antithesis of Walter Lock’s scholarship—and the scholarship of hundreds of other scholars who have cared enough about the Bible to study the issue.
 
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He believed the OT Scriptures, and that is good enough for me.

Did Jesus believe that the earth is flat and covered with a dome?

The Hebrew Masoretic text of Genesis 1:6-8 expressly describes the creation of a flat earth covered with a dome that “separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome.”

1:6 ויאמר אלהים יהי רקיע בתוך המים ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים׃
1:7 ויעשׂ אלהים את־הרקיע ויבדל בין המים אשׁר מתחת לרקיע ובין המים אשׁר מעל לרקיע ויהי־כן׃
1:8 ויקרא אלהים לרקיע שׁמים ויהי־ערב ויהי־בקר יום שׁני׃

The Septuagint also expressly describes the creation of a flat earth covered with a dome that “separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome.”

Gen 1:6 Καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεός Γενηθήτω στερέωμα ἐν μέσῳ τοῦ ὕδατος καὶ ἔστω διαχωρίζον ἀνὰ μέσον ὕδατος καὶ ὕδατος. καὶ ἐγένετο οὕτως.
Gen 1:7 καὶ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸ στερέωμα, καὶ διεχώρισεν ὁ θεὸς ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ ὕδατος, ὃ ἦν ὑποκάτω τοῦ στερεώματος, καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ ὕδατος τοῦ ἐπάνω τοῦ στερεώματος.
Gen 1:8 καὶ ἐκάλεσεν ὁ θεὸς τὸ στερέωμα οὐρανόν. καὶ εἶδεν ὁ θεὸς ὅτι καλόν. καὶ ἐγένετο ἑσπέρα καὶ ἐγένετο πρωί, ἡμέρα δευτέρα.

The Latin Vulgate also expressly describes the creation of a flat earth covered with a dome that “separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome.”

6. dixit quoque Deus fiat firmamentum in medio aquarum et dividat aquas ab aquis
7. et fecit Deus firmamentum divisitque aquas quae erant sub firmamento ab his quae erant super firmamentum et factum est ita
8. vocavitque Deus firmamentum caelum et factum est vespere et mane dies secundus

The Wycliffe Bible also expressly describes the creation of a flat earth covered with a dome that “separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome.”

6 And God seide, The firmament be maad in the myddis of watris, and departe watrisfro watris.
7And God made the firmament, and departide the watristhat weren vndurthe firmament fro these watris that weren on the firmament; and it was don so.
8 And God clepide the firmament, heuene. And the euentid and morwetid was maad, the secounde dai.

The best Roman Catholic translation in English (NAB) also expressly describes the creation of a flat earth covered with a dome that “separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome.”

6. Then God said, "Let there be a dome in the middle of the waters, to separate one body of water from the other." And so it happened:
7. God made the dome, and it separated the water above the dome from the water below it.
8. God called the dome "the sky." Evening came, and morning followed-the second day.

The best Protestant translation in English (NRSV) also expressly describes the creation of a flat earth covered with a dome that “separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome.”

6. And God said, "Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."
7. So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.
8. God called the dome Sky. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

The KJV also correctly translates the Hebrew word רָקִיעַ (râqı̂ya‛) as “firmament”, but most modern readers of the KJV are unaware of the meaning of the word and do not realize that it expresses the concept of the strong, solid dome that supported the water above the dome.

If Jesus knew that the earth is spherical, He also knew that the creation story in Genesis is NOT an accurate account of historic events. If Jesus did not know that the earth is spherical, He would have believed that the earth is flat and covered with a solid, supporting structure, that is, a dome!
 
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