Passover For Christians

Torah Keeper said:

If Yeshua was crucified on Friday, you cannot possibly get 3 nights, and 3 days. Even including the last hour of Friday as a day. Look:
Friday-Day 1
Erev Shabbat-Night 1
Boker Shabbat-Day 2
Erev Sunday-Night 2
Yeshua rose before sunrise. So you can't include Sunday morning as the 3rd day. Even if you did, you are still missing another night. It doesn't add up.
That's why a Thursday crucifixion makes sense. The preparation day was for Passover, as I quoted from your post above. This gives 2 rest days followed by Sunday. It fits. It adds up. 3 days and 3 nights. Just as Yeshua said.

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I don't find the Hebrew words "Erev Shabbat,""Boker Shabbat or "Erev" in any of my English or Greek versions. Please see my post [#401],
above, for 12 page article on this.
Do you suppose all the disciples were lying when they said that Jesus was crucified on "parasceue/Friday?"
Or maybe someone is interjecting their denominational assumptions/presuppositions into scripture?

Torah Keeper said:

Preparation for the weekly Sabbath or preparation for Chag HaMatsa is what is debated. The Friday to Sunday RCC teaching does not give the 3 days and 3 nights.
The phrase "High Sabbath", may actually be referring to the 15th by itself, and not including the weekly Sabbath.
If Yeshua was unable to keep Pesach then He should have kept it on the second month, correct? According to Scripture?
It seems to me that He kept it at the proper time, even if the ruling class did not.

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When one reads all four accounts of Passion week and understands what exactly is being said one must come to these conclusions.
<>There were two Sabbaths in passion week, the weekly Sabbath, the day we call Saturday, and the annual Sabbath, 1st day of Unleavened Bread [1 ULB]. They both fell on the week day which in Greek was then, and now is, called "Parasceue" which means "preparation." In English we call that day "Friday."
<>1 ULB Does not always occur on a Saturday. When 1 ULB does fall on any other week day it is a "Holy Convocation." It differs from a Sabbath in that preparation and cooking of food is expressly permitted, Exodus 12:16
<>Jesus was crucified before sundown on Friday of passion week, he day before the Sabbath.

Der Alte said:

I don't find the Hebrew words "Erev Shabbat,""Boker Shabbat or "Erev" in any of my English or Greek versions. Please see my post [#401],
above, for 12 page article on this.
Do you suppose all the disciples were lying when they said that Jesus was crucified on "parasceue/Friday?"
Or maybe someone is interjecting their denominational assumptions/presuppositions into scripture?

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Let's go through it again without the Hebrew words.

Yeshua said he would be in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights.

So for a Friday crucifixion:

• Day 1-Last hour of Friday
• Night 1-Friday night to Saturday morning
• Day 2-Saturday daytime
• Night 2-Saturday night to Sunday morning
• Yeshua rose before dawn

That's not 3 days and 3 nights. Was Yeshua lying? You cannot possibly get 3 days and nights even including parts. It does not add up.

And I never said it was Wednesday. I said Thursday.

Look here at John 19:14 which you posted earlier, and I quoted it to prove
παρασκευὴ does not always mean Friday.
ἦν δὲ παρασκευὴ τοῦ πάσχα, "now it was the preparation of the Passover"

Torah Keeper said:

Let's go through it again without the Hebrew words.

Yeshua said he would be in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights.

So for a Friday crucifixion:

• Day 1-Last hour of Friday
• Night 1-Friday night to Saturday morning
• Day 2-Saturday daytime
• Night 2-Saturday night to Sunday morning
• Yeshua rose before dawn

That's not 3 days and 3 nights. Was Yeshua lying? You cannot possibly get 3 days and nights even including parts. It does not add up.

And I never said it was Wednesday. I said Thursday.

Look here at John 19:14 which you posted earlier, and I quoted it to prove
παρασκευὴ does not always mean Friday.
ἦν δὲ παρασκευὴ τοῦ πάσχα, "now it was the preparation of the Passover"

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You do not understand Jewish reckoning of time. See post # 392 linked

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Already explained it in previous posts (37 & 41 I believe?). It does not have to be 72 hrs. Any part of a day is considered as the whole. Also remember He also said..."in 3 days" and "on the 3rd day"...

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I agree suggesting 72 hours is wrong,
and I am not suggesting that.

Three days and three nights per definition isn't defined as hours but 12 hour periods or parts thereof.

Testing this and counting the part on Friday(Friday 3 pm He dies)

Allows Friday the day part and Saturday the day part equates to two days.
Friday night the night part and Saturday the night part also equates to two days.

Now although scripture doesn't say when He rose, John 20:1, suggest it was between Saturday night and before sunrise on Sunday.

Also it is specified as three days and three nights not three nights and three days.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

I agree with most of what you said but you think Yeshua kept the Pesakh 1 month later (Pesakh Sheni)? Is that what you are saying? He had a rehearsal dinner that had aspects of the Pesakh meal (obviously with no lamb) on the 13th/14th evening called a Seudah haMafsekhet (literally the last supper before the fast, in this case, the fast of the firstborn on the daylight hours of the 14th with the Pesakh meal breaking the fast).

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Speculation doesn't constitute evidence

Evidence provided below..

This might be helpful as a graphical representation showing the timings from scripture of Christs death and resurrection and how they link into the Feast of Passover/Unleavened bread/First fruits along with the timing of the resurrection. In Figure 1 you will see that there was a rehearsal or preparation of Passover/Unleavened bread that took place before the actual Feasts started according to the scriptures.

Figure 1 timing of the Feasts of Passover/Unleavened bread and First fruits with Christs death and resurrection.

Figure 2. Timing of Jesus death and resurrection in Jewish reckoning of time (3 days and 3 nights)


Jewish reckoning for a day can include parts of days/nights (e.g. Esther 4:16; Esther 5:1 see also Matthew 28:1 with Luke 24:5-7).


God bless

LoveGodsWord said:

Jewish reckoning for a day can include parts of days/nights (e.g. Esther 4:16; Esther 5:1 see also Matthew 28:1 with Luke 24:5-7).
View attachment 311291

Take Care

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The time period is specified for in the grave.

so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Matthew 12:40

Shalom

Filippus said:

The time period is specified for in the grave.

so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Matthew 12:40

Shalom

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Yes see the post above yours, that shows Jesus was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights in Fig 2. Jewish reckoning of time is not full days according to scripture and biblical reckoning. Fig 1 shows the scripture links into the Feast days not Christs death and resurrection. Christs death and resurrection is shown in Fig 2.

Take Care

Torah Keeper said:

Let's go through it again without the Hebrew words.
Yeshua said he would be in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights.
So for a Friday crucifixion:

• Day 1-Last hour of Friday
• Night 1-Friday night to Saturday morning
• Day 2-Saturday daytime
• Night 2-Saturday night to Sunday morning
• Yeshua rose before dawn

That's not 3 days and 3 nights. Was Yeshua lying? You cannot possibly get 3 days and nights even including parts. It does not add up.

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Yes Jesus said "three days and three nights", but He also said
Sorry amigo if you expect me to address the bulk of your posts, then you must first grant me the simple courtesy of addressing the bulk, if not all, of my posts. You ain't done that. I addressed 3 nights and 3 days at least twice in this thread.

And I never said it was Wednesday. I said Thursday.

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I don't recall saying "Wednesday" in the post you quoted or any other post. I think it was in something I quoted as someone's attempt to make the crucifixion on some other day than Friday.

Look here at John 19:14 which you posted earlier, and I quoted it to prove παρασκευὴ does not always mean Friday. ἦν δὲ παρασκευὴ τοῦ πάσχα, "now it was the preparation of the Passover"

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One should be careful about quoting only parts of a verse out-of-context. The word "παρασκευη"/"paraskeue,"/"preparation" occurs only 6 times in the NT and only in the passion narratives. Five of those indicate it was the day before the Sabbath.
The week that Jesus was crucified the 1st day of unleavened, a Holy convocation and the Passover fell on the weekly Sabbath. The "preparation" mentioned in all, minus none, of these narratives was the one preparation day for the one weekly Sabbath. Everything for the Sabbath must be prepared on the day before because no work can be done on the Sabbath not even lighting a fire. In the OT one Israelite was put to death for gathering wood on the Sabbath

LoveGodsWord said:

You do not understand Jewish reckoning of time. See post # 392 linked

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Says the SDA to the Messianic. Lol.
Looking at your graph I see at most 2 days and 2 nights in the tomb.

Look again:

Let's go through it again without the Hebrew words.

Yeshua said he would be in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights.

So for a Friday crucifixion:

• Day 1-Last hour of Friday
• Night 1-Friday night to Saturday morning
• Day 2-Saturday daytime
• Night 2-Saturday night to Sunday morning
• Yeshua rose before dawn

That's not 3 days and 3 nights. Was Yeshua lying? You cannot possibly get 3 days and nights even including parts. It does not add up.

Now here is a Thursday crucifixion:

• Day 1-Thursday afternoon. Yeshua placed in tomb.
• Night 1-The First Day of Unleavened Bread (Matsa 1) began. This is a rest day.
• Day 2-Matsa 1 continued until sunset.
• Night 2-The weekly Sabbath began.
• Day 3-The Sabbath continued until sunset.
• Night 3-Sunday began at sunset. (A new 24 hour day starts at sunset in Jewish time)
• Yeshua had already risen before sunrise.

There it is. 3 days and 3 nights.

Torah Keeper said:

Says the SDA to the Messianic. Lol.
Looking at your graph I see at most 2 days and 2 nights in the tomb.

Look again:

Let's go through it again without the Hebrew words.

Yeshua said he would be in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights.

So for a Friday crucifixion:

• Day 1-Last hour of Friday
• Night 1-Friday night to Saturday morning
• Day 2-Saturday daytime
• Night 2-Saturday night to Sunday morning
• Yeshua rose before dawn

That's not 3 days and 3 nights. Was Yeshua lying? You cannot possibly get 3 days and nights even including parts. It does not add up.

Now here is a Thursday crucifixion:

• Day 1-Thursday afternoon. Yeshua placed in tomb.
• Night 1-The First Day of Unleavened Bread (Matsa 1) began. This is a rest day.
• Day 2-Matsa 1 continued until sunset.
• Night 2-The weekly Sabbath began.
• Day 3-The Sabbath continued until sunset.
• Night 3-Sunday began at sunset. (A new 24 hour day starts at sunset in Jewish time)
• Yeshua had already risen before sunrise.

There it is. 3 days and 3 nights.

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It is not about if someone is Messianic or SDA. It never has been. It is about what the scriptures teach. Jewish reckoning for a day can include parts of days/nights as shown in Esther 4:16; Esther 5:1 see also Matthew 28:1 with Luke 24:5-7. Now see the evidence and the scriptures support provide in post # 410 linked that disagrees with you. You have only provided an opinion in your post here unsupported by evidence or scripture. Of course you are welcome believe as you wish. That was never in contention. I just do not believe it is biblical and have shown why. If Jesus resurrection was sometime Sunday it still gives 3 days and 3 nights in Jewish reckoning of time as shown below as they never used astronomical reckoning of time as we do today as posted earlier. A part day is considered a full day inclusive of night and day.

Even the early disciples of Jesus knew that Sunday was the third day when Jesus said he would rise from the dead meaning part day (Mark 16:9; Luke 24:13-21) and Jesus said he would rise on the third day (Mark 9:31; Mark 10:34; Luke 9:22; Luke 24:27; 46; Acts of the Apostles 10:40; 1 Corinthians 15:4) which makes it a part day.

Take Care.

Torah Keeper said:

Says the SDA to the Messianic. Lol.
Looking at your graph I see at most 2 days and 2 nights in the tomb.
Look again:
Let's go through it again without the Hebrew words.
Yeshua said he would be in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights.
So for a Friday crucifixion:

• Day 1-Last hour of Friday
• Night 1-Friday night to Saturday morning
• Day 2-Saturday daytime
• Night 2-Saturday night to Sunday morning
• Yeshua rose before dawn

That's not 3 days and 3 nights. Was Yeshua lying? You cannot possibly get 3 days and nights even including parts. It does not add up.
Now here is a Thursday crucifixion:

• Day 1-Thursday afternoon. Yeshua placed in tomb.
• Night 1-The First Day of Unleavened Bread (Matsa 1) began. This is a rest day.
• Day 2-Matsa 1 continued until sunset.
• Night 2-The weekly Sabbath began.
• Day 3-The Sabbath continued until sunset.
• Night 3-Sunday began at sunset. (A new 24 hour day starts at sunset in Jewish time)
• Yeshua had already risen before sunrise.

[There it is. 3 days and 3 nights.

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Wrong!
All four gospels agree that Jesus was crucified on Friday; Matthew 27:62, Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, John 19:14, John 19:31, John 19:42.
Παρασκευη/parasceue is translated "preparation" in the NT. The Greek name, then and now, for the day we call Friday was and is "paraskeue" which in Greek means "preparation."
All four gospels agree that Jesus was in the tomb on Saturday which was a weekly and annual Sabbath; c.f. Matthew 28:1, Mark 15:42, Mark 16:1, Luke 23:54, John 19:31
If as it clearly appears the annual Sabbath coincided with the weekly Sabbath, i.e. a high day. The first day of Unleavened bread, [1ULB] which is an annual holy convocation was on the day after "Paraskeue"/"Friday." was also "Passover."
A Holy Convocation is similar to a Sabbath but differs in that the preparation and cooking of food is specifically permitted.

Filippus said:

Speculation doesn't constitute evidence

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??

Filippus said:

The time period is specified for in the grave.

so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Matthew 12:40

Shalom

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It was an idiom. Does the earth have an actual heart?? And "on the 3rd day" and "in 3 days" was also specified...

LoveGodsWord said:

Yes see the post above yours, that shows Jesus was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights in Fig 2. Jewish reckoning of time is not full days according to scripture and biblical reckoning. Fig 1 shows the scripture links into the Feast days not Christs death and resurrection. Christs death and resurrection is shown in Fig 2.

Take Care

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The point I am making is that you are almost there, but should include the Thursday, because He died at 3pm.
That would also correct the sequence to day then night.

Der Alte said:

Wrong!
All four gospels agree that Jesus was crucified on Friday; Matthew 27:62, Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, John 19:14, John 19:31, John 19:42.

Matthew 27:62
62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation [παρασκευη], the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,
Mark 15:42
42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, [παρασκευη] that is, the day before the sabbath,
Luke 23:54
54 And that day was the preparation, [παρασκευη] and the sabbath drew on.
John 19:14
14 And it was the preparation [παρασκευη] of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
John 19:31
31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, [παρασκευη] that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
John 19:42
42 There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation [παρασκευη] day; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.​

Παρασκευη/parasceue is translated "preparation" in the NT. The Greek name, then and now, for the day we call Friday was and is "paraskeue" which in Greek means "preparation."
All four gospels agree that Jesus was in the tomb on Saturday which was a weekly and annual Sabbath; c.f. Matthew 28:1, Mark 15:42, Mark 16:1, Luke 23:54, John 19:31

Matthew 28:1
1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Mark 15:42
42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
Mark 16:1
1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
Luke 23:54
54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
John 19:31
31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
Exodus 12:16
16 And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.​

If as it clearly appears the annual Sabbath coincided with the weekly Sabbath, i.e. a high day. The first day of Unleavened bread, [1ULB] which is an annual holy convocation was on the day after "Paraskeue"/"Friday." was also "Passover."
A Holy Convocation is similar to a Sabbath but differs in that the preparation and cooking of food is specifically permitted.

JPS Exodus 12:16 And in the first day there shall be to you a holy convocation, and in the seventh day a holy convocation; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done by you.​

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No, not necessarily.

The phrase "preparation" or "preparation day" is NOT used exclusively for a single day.
Yes, it is common knowledge that Friday is a weekly preparation day, however, it's not the only one.

So simply interpreting that all the verses we can find in the Gospels applying the phrase "preparation", is referring to the Friday is presumptuous.

The Sabbath
Leviticus 23:3 “Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work. It is a Sabbath to the Lord in all your dwelling places.

The Passover
Leviticus 23:4 “These are the appointed feasts of the Lord, the holy convocations, which you shall proclaim at the time appointed for them.
5 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight, is the Lord's Passover.
6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread.
7 On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall not do any ordinary work.
8 But you shall present a food offering to the Lord for seven days. On the seventh day is a holy convocation; you shall not do any ordinary work.”

Looking further to the feast of Unleavened Bread we see the phrase preparation was used interchangeably with the feast.

Ex 12:16 On the first day you shall have a holy and solemn assembly, and on the seventh day there shall be another holy and solemn assembly; no work of any kind shall be done on those days, except for the preparation of food which every person must eat—only that may be done by you.

John 19:14 uses the phrase "preparation", but places the final trial before Pilate on the sixth hour, which is mitigated by simply changing the timing of the book of John to Roman time, with no mandate or proof.

Therefore this preparation day suggests a day earlier.

It is important to note that the word "day" is absent in the phrase preparation.

Shalom

Filippus said:

The point I am making is that you are almost there, but should include the Thursday, because He died at 3pm.
That would also correct the sequence to day then night.

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Thanks for sharing your view but I do not subscribe to a Thursday crucifixion. Scripture says it was the preparation day before the Sabbath that Jesus died (Matthew 27:62; Mark 15:42; Luke 23:54; John 19:14, 31, 42). Jewish reckoning of time as part days includes all three days/nights which also fulfill the Feast day sequences of Christs death and resurrection to the Passover/unleavened bread feast (1 Corinthians 5:7-8) and well as the Feast of first fruits to Christs resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:20-23). Though at the end of the day. I do not know why people feel this is such an important issue to be honest.

Take Care.

LoveGodsWord said:

Thanks for sharing your view but I do not subscribe to a Thursday crucifixion. Your chart also seems to be out. Biblical time for a day is not midnight to midnight. It is sunset to sunset (Genesis 1). Scripture says it was the preparation day before the Sabbath that Jesus died (Matthew 27:62; Mark 15:42; Luke 23:54; John 19:14, 31, 42). Jewish reckoning of time as part days includes all three days/nights which also fulfill the Feast day sequences of Christs death and resurrection to the Passover/unleavened bread feast (1 Corinthians 5:7-8) and well as the Feast of first fruits to Christs resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:20-23). Though at the end of the day. I do not know why people feel this is such an important issue to be honest.

Take Care.

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You have made the comment without really looking.

It doesn't even start at midnight.

LoveGodsWord said:

You do not understand Jewish reckoning of time. See post # 392 linked

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Are you just replying indiscriminately or actually reading the posts?