The little horns of Daniel 7 and 8

Trivalee · Jan 16, 2022

3 Resurrections said:
The book of Revelation was written by a Jewish man. To the Jews, the term "THE EARTH" (tes ges) meant the land of Israel specifically - the promised land. Just as God addressed the land of Judah in Jeremiah 22:29. "Oh earth, earth, earth, hear the world of the Lord..." No man of Coniah's descent was going to live to rule in the land of Judah anymore.

The prophet Joel 2:18-20 also spoke of the Lord having pity on His people, and being jealous for "HIS LAND". "Fear not, O LAND; be glad and rejoice: for the Lord will do great things."

When Revelation spoke about the "tribes of the EARTH" mourning, this Jewish author John had in mind the tribes of the land of Israel that were going to be extant at that time - which they aren't anymore. You are reading Revelation from the perspective of a 21st century person when you propose that this term means "tribes of the entire world", which John was not saying. John was referencing Zechariah, who spoke of specific families and tribes of the land of Israel which were going to mourn. These particular tribes and families of the land of Israel are not around anymore today. The genealogical records were all burned up back in AD 66 at the beginning of the war with Rome, as God intended.

There is NO battle of Armageddon mentioned in Zechariah. In fact, there was never going to be a battle that would take place in Armageddon at all. The combatants for the war against Jerusalem and Judah would use that "Hill of Megiddo" (Har Megiddo) location for a staging ground for gathering their troops together, and would then spread out over the land of Israel from there on their way to attack Jerusalem.

The "nations" coming against Jerusalem came from "Galilee of the Gentiles" - the home base in the north of Israel for the Zealots in those first-century days (which was just a few miles from the "Hill of Megiddo" location). It was CIVIL WAR Zealot factions which weakened the nation internally so that they fell to the final Roman assault more easily. God destroyed all those Zealot factions which came against Jerusalem from "Galilee of the Gentiles". They each competed with and fought each other, which weakened them enough so that they were destroyed by the Romans at the close of the war in Jerusalem.

Brother, I beg to disagree because the Lord will return to judge the whole world, not just Israel. Secondly, the end of the church age and ushering in of the millennium is for the whole world - I see no logic in limiting these events only as a Jewish experience.

To claim that Revelation was written exclusively to the Jews makes no sense given that it expresses how the end of this age will play out for both Jew and Gentile. Seems you are not paying attention to the context because if you do, you won't make the erroneous claim that the 'tribes/kindreds' of the earth refer to the Jews. For example, in reference to the AC in Rev 13:7 says: And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Are you telling your readers that all the kindreds of tongues/languages (languages: Israel has only one language) and all the people that dwell upon the earth that shall worship the beast mean only Israel?

The fact you claim that the 'earth' denotes only Israel and your confusing Armageddon in Zechariah 14 for the Roman attack on Jerusalem in 66-70 AD, shows you still have a lot of studies to do. I wish you luck in your studies.

3 Resurrections · Jan 16, 2022

Trivalee said:
To claim that Revelation was written exclusively to the Jews makes no sense given that it expresses how the end of this age will play out for both Jew and Gentile.

I'm afraid you are misquoting me a bit. We know that judgment was prophesied to be coming on the "whole habitable world" in Revelation 3:10. "...I will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which is about to come upon all the world..." (holes oikoumenes). This would involve tribulation coming to more than just "the EARTH", or "the LAND" of Israel. The "whole habitable world" would experience tribulation to some degree or another in Revelation's prophecies.

My point is that when John refers to "The EARTH" in Revelation, that he is referring to the Jewish "LAND" in those particular passages. When John distinguishes frequently between "the EARTH and the SEA", he is again making a distinction between the land of Israel and the pagan nations of the world. This was a typical manner for Jews to express the difference between their own promised land and the pagan nations across the Mediterranean Sea, which were indeed included as well within Revelation's prophecies.

Trivalee · Jan 20, 2022

3 Resurrections said:
I'm afraid you are misquoting me a bit. We know that judgment was prophesied to be coming on the "whole habitable world" in Revelation 3:10. "...I will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which is about to come upon all the world..." (holes oikoumenes). This would involve tribulation coming to more than just "the EARTH", or "the LAND" of Israel. The "whole habitable world" would experience tribulation to some degree or another in Revelation's prophecies.

My point is that when John refers to "The EARTH" in Revelation, that he is referring to the Jewish "LAND" in those particular passages. When John distinguishes frequently between "the EARTH and the SEA", he is again making a distinction between the land of Israel and the pagan nations of the world. This was a typical manner for Jews to express the difference between their own promised land and the pagan nations across the Mediterranean Sea, which were indeed included as well within Revelation's prophecies.

The way you cherry-pick the texts and ascribe interpretations to them to suit an unscriptural narrative makes no sense. You will be forgiven if English is not your first language, but it is. Therefore, you have no excuse.

Let's look at these two examples: you acknowledged that the prophesied 'temptation' in Rev 3:10 will affect the whole world and then deny that "all the kindred of the earth" in Rev 1:7 does not denote the people of the world?

The earth is used in diverse contexts in scripture. Regrettably, you failed to cite any specific passage to enable your readers to examine its context - whether it denotes the peoples of the world in that instance or the literal earth. Therefore, to make a sweeping and unfounded claim that every reference to 'earth' in Revelation denotes Gentile nations is ludicrous and lacks scriptural support.

3 Resurrections · Jan 20, 2022

Trivalee said:
The earth is used in diverse contexts in scripture. Regrettably, you failed to cite any specific passage to enable your readers to examine its context - whether it denotes the peoples of the world in that instance or the literal earth.

Yes, I already did do this examination of the context for the "tribes of the earth" in another comment. Perhaps you missed it. The Revelation 1:7 text about the "tribes of the earth" mourning at Jesus's return is a quote taken directly from the text in Zechariah 13:10-14. In Zechariah13:10-14, that was specifically the ethnic families and tribes of Israel that would be doing that mourning - and it would be in the physical city of Jerusalem itself as it was under siege. This was in the AD 66-70 siege of Jerusalem - not our future. Because these particular families and tribes of Israel are no longer in existence today. God got rid of them by burning up the archived genealogical records in AD 66 at the hands of the warring Zealot factions.

Actually, it was absolutely necessary that the "whole habitable world" experience that predicted tribulation, as Revelation 3:10 said was soon about to come. Because the Israelite "tribes of the earth" had been scattered far and wide throughout the entire empire. In order for God to judge that "wicked generation", as He called it, this period of tribulation had to encompass the entire known world where the Israelite "tribes of the earth" had been scattered. This is exactly what happened to the members of those Israelite tribes in the "Great Tribulation" era of AD 66-70.

Berean Tim · Jan 25, 2022

Trivalee said:
I agree with you. Unfortunately, there are some believers that ascribe the LH of Dan 8 to the future Antichrist which makes zero sense given that the escapades of this LH were fully chronicled by both religious and contemporary historians.

Jesus spoke of Daniel's prophecy almost 200 years after Antiochus 4

Trivalee · Jan 29, 2022

Berean Tim said:
Jesus spoke of Daniel's prophecy almost 200 years after Antiochus 4

True. After the Maccabean revolt that defeated A4E's army (Antiochus died in Asia), the Jews enjoyed autonomy under the Hasmoneans dynasty for about 102 years before Jerusalem fell to Pompey in 63 BC.

Trivalee · Jan 29, 2022

3 Resurrections said:
My point is that when John refers to "The EARTH" in Revelation, that he is referring to the Jewish "LAND" in those particular passages. When John distinguishes frequently between "the EARTH and the SEA", he is again making a distinction between the land of Israel and the pagan nations of the world. This was a typical manner for Jews to express the difference between their own promised land and the pagan nations across the Mediterranean Sea, which were indeed included as well within Revelation's prophecies.

There is zero scriptural support for your claim. I have read Revelation several times and can't recall any instance where John referred to the land of Israel as "the earth".

3 Resurrections · Jan 29, 2022

Trivalee said:
There is zero scriptural support for your claim. I have read Revelation several times and can't recall any instance where John referred to the land of Israel as "the earth".

John distinguishes between the "kings of the earth" (tes ges - of the land of Israel) and the "kings...of the whole habitable world" (oikoumenes holes - the world at large) in Revelation 16:14. These were going to be gathered together to do battle with each other.

Christ also referred specifically to "the land" (tes ges - of Judea) in Luke 21:21-23. "But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land (tes ges) and wrath upon this people." That reference to "this people" was the people in Judea that Christ had just mentioned in verse 21.

Trivalee · Feb 6, 2022

3 Resurrections said:
John distinguishes between the "kings of the earth" (tes ges - of the land of Israel) and the "kings...of the whole habitable world" (oikoumenes holes - the world at large) in Revelation 16:14. These were going to be gathered together to do battle with each other.

Christ also referred specifically to "the land" (tes ges - of Judea) in Luke 21:21-23. "But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land (tes ges) and wrath upon this people." That reference to "this people" was the people in Judea that Christ had just mentioned in verse 21.

You are too far down the garden path to be reasonably objective. I have tried to help you to understand that your interpretation is wrong. But if you insist that "the whole world" is different from "the earth" in scripture, so be it.

I wish you the best in your bible studies.

3 Resurrections · Feb 6, 2022

Trivalee said:
But if you insist that "the whole world" is different from "the earth" in scripture, so be it.

This is not merely my insistence: it is the Greek language that distinguishes between the two concepts.

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The little horns of Daniel 7 and 8

Trivalee

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3 Resurrections

That's 666 YEARS, folks

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Trivalee

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3 Resurrections

That's 666 YEARS, folks

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Berean Tim

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Trivalee

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Trivalee

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3 Resurrections

That's 666 YEARS, folks

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Trivalee

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3 Resurrections

That's 666 YEARS, folks

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