How can baptism be required for salvation?

disciple Clint said:

Lets consider church history 101, there were countless disputes over almost everything. Starting with do Gentiles need to follow Jewish laws to what was the Christology of Christ

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The matter of gentiles following Jewish law was resolved by a Church Council. Yet even today there are groups that want to rehash the whole thing even though it was resolved long ago. The theological disputes over christology were extra-biblical. They weren't arguments over the meaning of the bible.

HTacianas said:

The matter of gentiles following Jewish law was resolved by a Church Council. Yet even today there are groups that want to rehash the whole thing even though it was resolved long ago. The theological disputes over christology were extra-biblical. They weren't arguments over the meaning of the bible.

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in what way would Christology not affect the meaning of the Bible? All of those Council meetings were about how the Bible was to be understood.

HTacianas said:

There was no sacrifice he could have offered under the old testament to atone for his sin. He is described as a thief, and was under a death penalty. There were no sacrifices in the old testament to atone for a sin requiring death.

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I think you just invalidated your original post, as you say nothing under the O.T. could have saved him, conclusion he was saved by Jesus under the new covenant.

Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Acts 3:19 "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord."

Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

1 John 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

1 Corinthians 5:17 "And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins."

If you are not Christ's, and Christ is not living in you, you are still in sin, and the wages of sin is death. Hence, Repent, Be Baptized and RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT.

You don't receive the Holy Spirit until you've repented and been baptized. If you do not have the Spirit of God, then you are dead in your sins: meaning, you're not saved.


Revelation 20:13 "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”

James 2:20 "But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?"

Baptism is a work. It's an outward display of your belief.

I'm not sure how anyone can mitigate the necessity of baptism for salvation.

Baptism is a complicated topic. God required baptism for a few things especially around The Messiah's time on earth and afterward. At the beginning of the Church especially from Jewish believers and baptism was connected to at that time The Blasphemy of The Holy spirit that was committed by the nation of Israel.

Is Our Understanding of Baptism All Wet? – Grace Evangelical Society

But baptism has never been connected to (a requirement for) a person receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life. The only requirement to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life is to believe,trust in The Messiah for God's free gift.

ChristianForCats said:

For God so loved the world He gave his one and only Son, that whosoever believes in Him will have everlasting life. - John 3:16 (No mention of baptism)

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. - Romans 10:9 (No mention of baptism)

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. - Mark 16:16 (Notice baptism is completely useless without faith.)

Now, on the last verse, it appears baptism is a requirement. However, the emphasis on faith in it shows us all baptism does not save anyone. Why did John baptize people before the Holy Spirit came down? Why do so many Christians believe if you are not baptized in water, you are blocked from heaven?

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John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. RSVCE

ChristianForCats said:

That is why I want to know where people got the contrary idea from.

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Baptism through water is the norm for the sacrament of Baptism, but not the only way to receive the sacrament.

Valletta said:

Baptism through water is the norm for the sacrament of Baptism, but not the only way to receive the sacrament.

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Some think the ritual boxes God in.

A major obstacle of disagreement I think is whether or not baptism has caused a real change to the soul. If it's just an outward thing it's necessity is much more questionable

Baptism is contract; you're entering into a covenant with God. It's a two part contract: you agree to obey God, and He agrees to give you Eternal Life and all the blessings that come with that. How can you take part in Eternal Life if you never sign the contract for it?

ChristianForCats said:

Baptism is a public display of your conversion to Jesus. That is why it must be immersion, not just getting your hair wet.

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I wholeheartedly agree. I believe in full-immersion, not water sprinkling.

I was born again on 16th of December 2018, however, did not get baptized by water until summer 2020. However, if I died before 2020, I would still go to Heaven. Salvation is by Jesus alone, grace alone, faith alone.

Billions are baptized by water, and will not go to Heaven, because they have no faith. Same as circumcision in the OT. Abraham was called righteous when he believed God about His promise, not when Abraham was circumcised.

Circumcision is a deed anyone can perform. No one will go to Heaven by deeds, and I am tired of people claiming otherwise. Otherwise Jesus would not come and die in our place.

Such shame Matthew 7:22-23 is so omitted 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Many Christians claim that the most important thing is to know Jesus. No, the most important is whether Jesus knows you.

Luke 7
28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.

30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

HTacianas said:

There was no sacrifice he could have offered under the old testament to atone for his sin. He is described as a thief, and was under a death penalty. There were no sacrifices in the old testament to atone for a sin requiring death.

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Good thing he was saved solely by belief in Jesus then.

John 14:26 " But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

Repent, be baptized and receive the Holy Spirit. If you don't want to be baptized then don't be baptized; but without full immersion baptism, you will not receive the spirit of God. And the spirit of God is the only thing in this world that teaches you and helps you to understand scripture. Only by the spirit can you grow in grace AND knowledge.

renniks said:

Good thing he was saved solely by belief in Jesus then.

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He drank the cup prepared for him by God. The same cup that Jesus drank. Jesus called that His Baptism. I think it would qualify as a baptism for the thief as well.

Isaac Aldermann said:

Repent, be baptized and receive the Holy Spirit.And the spirit of God is the only thing in this world that teaches you and helps you to understand scripture. Only by the spirit c If you don't want to be baptized then don't be baptized; but without full immersion baptism, you will not receive the spirit of God.

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It's facsinating how people who stand firmly on the revealed word of God feel no hesitation about writing some of it themselves.

ChristianForCats said:
"Baptism is a public display of your conversion to Jesus. That is why it must be immersion, not just getting your hair wet."

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And this ^ doesn't even make sense, all the theology aside.

Standing in front of a congregation and having water poured on your head sure as anything does amount to a "public display," every bit as much as having a minister baptize you in your backyard swimming pool!

Isaac Aldermann said:

you don't want to be baptized then don't be baptized; but without full immersion baptism, you will not receive the spirit of God.

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The key reason that person wouldn't receive the Spirit is because they had no desire to be baptized not so much because of the ritual.

Eloy Craft said:

He drank the cup prepared for him by God. The same cup that Jesus drank. Jesus called that His Baptism. I think it would qualify as a baptism for the thief as well.

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Baptism has many meanings beyond water immersion. I think there might be something lost in the translation to English, that makes so many people today think it can only refer to being dunked in water.