Status
Not open for further replies.

Christian7777777

Active Member
Dec 28, 2021
311
48
52
.
✟2,917.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Also you have shown why salvation both can and cannot be lost, it is lost by the ones who seek to find it without Christ, and with Christ they know His ways of lowliness and meekness, which leaves it open to both can and cannot lose, cannot lose in faith, but it is the faith of Jesus Christ.
 
Upvote 0

Christian7777777

Active Member
Dec 28, 2021
311
48
52
.
✟2,917.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The law of sin and death is the carnal mind and the sinful human nature not God's 10 commandments

According to the scriptures to be "under the law" means to stand before God guilty of breaking the law (Romans 3:19-20).

Take care.


The law was not only the ten commandments, it was the book of the law.


Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.


The law is not taught ( that is not faith) Christ's death to save us from our sins ( in that law and previous faulty covenant) is. Then His resurrection is our mind and conscience following ( and hearing ) Him, and not men teaching their own doctrines that are not the faith.
 
Upvote 0

Christian7777777

Active Member
Dec 28, 2021
311
48
52
.
✟2,917.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
So the rest, ( of the redemption and justification and blessing on the Gentiles of the Spirit through FAITH of Jesus Christ)...


Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
 
Upvote 0

FreeGrace2

Senior Veteran
Nov 15, 2012
20,401
1,703
USA
✟184,557.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Then don't repeat yourself your best to address the post you are responding to and not ignore it.
I do. Where are you? And why don't YOU not repeat yourself?

But I'm getting tired of your repetitions. If you don't want to discuss and explain the verses I've quoted, then please just don't keep responding with more repetitions.

Thank you kindly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Clare73
Upvote 0

FreeGrace2

Senior Veteran
Nov 15, 2012
20,401
1,703
USA
✟184,557.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
There is no mistake my side as shown in the scripture and the posts that you refuse to address that disagree with you.
See? Just more repetition in your posts.

Sorry I do not believe you as shown why from the scriptures.
More repetitions.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
24,945
6,054
North Carolina
✟273,781.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
You repeated yourself again while ignoring this...
See post #657.
Sorry I respectfully disagree as shown by the scripture and chapter context and subject matter your disregarding. It seems you think that the law mentioned in Hebrews 7 is talking about Gods' 10 commandments? Prove it? I bet you cannot because the chapter context and subject matter is to the laws of the Levitical Priesthood.

Here is the context and subject matter you left out which is the changing of the law of the Levitical Priesthood because Jesus was of the tribe of Judah (only Levites could be Priests under old covenant law)...

Hebrews 7: 11-18 [11], If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, for under it the people received the law, what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? [12], For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. [13], For he of whom these things are spoken pertains to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. [14], For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood. [15], And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there rises another priest, [16], Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. [17], For he testifies, You are a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. [18], For there is truly a cancellation of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

Hebrews 7:28, For the law makes men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, makes the Son, who is consecrated for ever more.

Hebrews 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience

The changing of the law in Hebrews 7 is the changing of the law of the Priesthood and the old covenant laws for remission of sins and animal sacrifices not Gods' 10 commandments. Your disregarding chapter context and subject matter as your friend was earlier and reading into the scriptures (eisegesis) what the scriptures do not say or do not teach.

Hebrews 7:11? Under the Levitical Priesthood the people received the laws for remission of sins through animal sacrifices and sin offerings for blood atonement (see Hebrews 8; Hebrews 9 and Hebrews 10) not God's 10 commandments. This is the context and subject matter your disregarding in Hebrews. Also, think it through, the people did not receive Gods' 10 commandments from the Levitical Priesthood or Aaron did they? They received it directly from God and through Moses (tables of stone). Your claim that Hebrews 7 is talking about Gods' 10 commandments is simply not biblical or supported by scripture. As shown through scripture context and subject matter, the runaround is your side not mine so we may have to agree to disagree.
Q.E.D. . .

Perfect demonstration of my point of the grand run-around. . .
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Danthemailman
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
24,945
6,054
North Carolina
✟273,781.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
It's not worth going over it again. I posted the post I was referencing back a few if your really interested. I'm done.
That's the only way the grand run-around can end.
 
  • Useful
Reactions: Danthemailman
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
10,022
4,233
USA
✟470,826.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I don't see any runaround in these posts. What I see if people trying to justify though out of context scriptures why they don't have to obey the commandments of God.

One of the last books of the Bible clearly says we should keep God's commandments and for those who break the commandments will be outside God's kingdom. This was written after Romans and right before the second coming of Jesus!


Revelation 12:17 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Why would the devil care if God's saints were keeping God's commandments if the law was not required? You might find it interesting as well that there is only a remnant left that still keep the commandments of God. That's certainly not surprising even looking on these forums all these teaching that God's commandments ended despite Jesus telling us heaven and earth will pass away before one jot of the law passes and breaking the least of these commandments you will be least in heaven. I don't want to gamble that least means you will be there, but we have free will to find out.

God's saints (His saved ones) are noted as having both the faith of Jesus and keeping the commandments of God. Revelation 14:12

If this one doesn't tell you how important keeping God's law is, nothing will. Literally right before Jesus comes!


Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (breaking commandment # 1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking commandment #9 Exodus 20:16).

Outside are the commandment breakers which is similar to the warning Jesus gives:
Matthew 7:23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Matthew 19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

We are told breaking one commandment is like breaking them all:

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

The commandments James very clearly is referring to is the Ten Commandments that came in a covenant of Ten, written by the finger of God. Exodus 34:28 Exodus 20, now written in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant Hebrews 8:10, Jerm 31:33

We do not keep the law to be saved, keeping the law is what establishes our faith Romans 3:31 and how Jesus knows us Matthew 7:21-23, 1 John 2:4 and is how we show love to God according to God John 14:15, John 15:10, Exodus 20:6, 1 John 5:3

We will all be judged on the Ten Commandments James 2:9 and for those who repent from their sins and walk in the Spirit which is given to those who obey John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32 will receive grace through true faith by believing in the Word of God.

Paul never makes a case that we are free to break the commandments of God which he so clearly tells us. What matters IS keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19,

Keeping God's law is not meant to be grievous 1 John 5:3 and not sure why there is so much push back on keeping the law of God when Jesus says: If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: LoveGodsWord
Upvote 0

FreeGrace2

Senior Veteran
Nov 15, 2012
20,401
1,703
USA
✟184,557.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
I don't see any runaround in these posts. What I see if people trying to justify though out of context scriptures why they don't have to obey the commandments of God.

One of the last books of the Bible clearly says we should keep God's commandments and for those who break the commandments will be outside God's kingdom. This was written after Romans and right before the second coming of Jesus!


Revelation 12:17 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Why would the devil care if God's saints were keeping God's commandments if the law was not required? You might find it interesting as well that there is only a remnant left that still keep the commandments of God. That's certainly not surprising even looking on these forums all these teaching that God's commandments ended despite Jesus telling us heaven and earth will pass away before one jot of the law passes and breaking the least of these commandments you will be least in heaven. I don't want to gamble that least means you will be there, but we have free will to find out.

God's saints (His saved ones) are noted as having both the faith of Jesus and keeping the commandments of God. Revelation 14:12

If this one doesn't tell you how important keeping God's law is, nothing will. Literally right before Jesus comes!


Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (breaking commandment # 1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking commandment #9 Exodus 20:16).

Outside are the commandment breakers which is similar to the warning Jesus gives:
Matthew 7:23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Matthew 19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

We are told breaking one commandment is like breaking them all:

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

The commandments James very clearly is referring to is the Ten Commandments that came in a covenant of Ten, written by the finger of God. Exodus 34:28 Exodus 20, now written in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant Hebrews 8:10, Jerm 31:33

We do not keep the law to be saved, keeping the law is what establishes our faith Romans 3:31 and how Jesus knows us Matthew 7:21-23, 1 John 2:4 and is how we show love to God according to God John 14:15, John 15:10, Exodus 20:6, 1 John 5:3

We will all be judged on the Ten Commandments James 2:9 and for those who repent from their sins and walk in the Spirit which is given to those who obey John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32 will receive grace through true faith by believing in the Word of God.

Paul never makes a case that we are free to break the commandments of God which he so clearly tells us. What matters IS keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19,

Keeping God's law is not meant to be grievous 1 John 5:3 and not sure why there is so much push back on keeping the law of God when Jesus says: If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15.
Jesus specifically and with very plain and straightforward words taught eternal security.

In John 5:24, Jesus said those who are believing HAVE (as in POSSESS) eternal life.

Then, in John 10:28 Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

It doesn't take a Greek scholar to figure this out. What He said is so clear that anyone can understand it.

When a person believes in Christ, they are given eternal life. And those given eternal life shall never perish. iow, they CAN'T perish.

Peter made the same point, in 1 Pet 1:23 - For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

The point is, those born of imperishable seed cannot perish. Impossible. All believers are described as being born again. (with imperishable seed, of course)

Paul taught the same thing.

Eph 1:13,14
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

v.13 "when you believed" (aorist tense, when in past time you believed)
"you were marked in Christ with a seal, the Holy Spirit"

v.14 "who (Holy Spirit) is a DEPOSIT GUARANTEEING our inheritance until the redemption of God's possession.

Real clear words. When a person believes, they are sealed with the Holy Spirit, as a deposit who GUARANTEES the believer's inheritance until the redemption (that would be at the resurrection/rapture when every believer receives their glorified bodies).

All these verses, from Jesus, Peter and Paul teach eternal security.

Anyone who teaches otherwise is teaching against these men and the Savior.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
10,022
4,233
USA
✟470,826.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Jesus specifically and with very plain and straightforward words taught eternal security.

In John 5:24, Jesus said those who are believing HAVE (as in POSSESS) eternal life.

Then, in John 10:28 Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

It doesn't take a Greek scholar to figure this out. What He said is so clear that anyone can understand it.

When a person believes in Christ, they are given eternal life. And those given eternal life shall never perish. iow, they CAN'T perish.

Peter made the same point, in 1 Pet 1:23 - For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

The point is, those born of imperishable seed cannot perish. Impossible. All believers are described as being born again. (with imperishable seed, of course)

Paul taught the same thing.

Eph 1:13,14
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

v.13 "when you believed" (aorist tense, when in past time you believed)
"you were marked in Christ with a seal, the Holy Spirit"

v.14 "who (Holy Spirit) is a DEPOSIT GUARANTEEING our inheritance until the redemption of God's possession.

Real clear words. When a person believes, they are sealed with the Holy Spirit, as a deposit who GUARANTEES the believer's inheritance until the redemption (that would be at the resurrection/rapture when every believer receives their glorified bodies).

All these verses, from Jesus, Peter and Paul teach eternal security.

Anyone who teaches otherwise is teaching against these men and the Savior.
Hi,

Thanks for the reply but you did not address any of the very plain and straightforward scriptures by Jesus or the apostles about keeping the commandments.

The Holy Spirit is given to those who obey the commandments as Jesus plainly tells us John 14:15-18 Acts 5:32

You can't be sealed with the Holy Spirit and be living in perpetual sin. The Holy Spirit is given to convict of us sin (which is defined as breaking the law of God 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7, Romans 3:20) breaking one law is like breaking them all James 2:10-12 and we are walking with Christ in His Spirit when we will obey God's law. We have a wonderful and just Savior who tells us we can repent from our sins and through the great sacrifice of Jesus in the New Covenant we can be forgiven when we repent but there are warnings that if we continue in sin once we know the truth there remains no more sacrifice. Hebrews 10:26

Jesus said My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. John 10:27. Jesus was our perfect example who kept all the commandments of His Father John 15:10 and tells us: If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15 (this is coming from the mouth of Jesus, hear His voice!). The people who do not keep the commandments are not known to Jesus according to clear scripture Matthew 7:21-23, 1 John 2:4 so why would you not want to keep the commandments?
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: LoveGodsWord
Upvote 0

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,381
Sydney, Australia.
✟244,844.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Which is why Jesus says by their fruits you shall know them. Receiving a call to repentance from sin is the fruit of faith in Gods' Word *John 7:16-20; Acts of the Apostles 2:38; Acts of the Apostles 3:19; 1 John 1:9.
Repentance means a change of mind, a change in direction. To believe in Jesus is true repentance!

"So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls." (Acts 2:41)

These three thousand souls were converted in a single day due to Peter's speech.

These three thousand souls had no time to repent of their sins in one day.

These three thousand souls were all Christians.

The fruit that you can use to ascertain whether someone is a Christian, is the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Are you saying that the three thousand souls were not Christians and not saved?
 
Upvote 0

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,381
Sydney, Australia.
✟244,844.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Which is why Jesus says by their fruits you shall know them. Receiving a call to repentance from sin is the fruit of faith in Gods' Word *John 7:16-20; Acts of the Apostles 2:38; Acts of the Apostles 3:19; 1 John 1:9.
Repenting from sin cannot save you or anyone else.

Give up coveting and see where that gets you.

The call to repent, is a call to turn to Jesus so that your sins can be blotted out.

Acts of the apostles 3:19
Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.

A Christian is a person that believes in Jesus Christ.

A Christian is not a person who repented of coveting.

You have confused the gospel with an orderly walk as a Christian.

A sanctified life cannot save, it may grant self righteousness but nothing else.

This is what saves.

Romans 10:13
For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Notice it does not say, may be saved, or conditional on how good they are at repenting.

That verse states: "will be saved"
 
Upvote 0

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,381
Sydney, Australia.
✟244,844.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Nothing to be puzzled about a simple statement based on scripture. Jesus is the living Word of God according to John 1:1-4; 14 who has given us His recorded written Word that we are to have faith in.
Your reply was twisted.

We don't put our faith in the written word, the scripture, we put our faith in Jesus Christ, The WORD HIMSELF!

Never use the capital 'WORD' when referring to the scripture.

John 5:39
You examine the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is those very scriptures that testify about Me.

The scripture is all about Jesus and nothing else.

If you believe in Jesus you have everything, if you believe in the scripture itself, you would be a pharisee.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
So to the ones still desiring to be under the law, Galatians 4:21, and desiring to be teachers of the law, 1 Timothy 1:7, their desire is ended, and another desire has come..
According to the scriptures, no one is "under the law" unless they stand before God guilty of breaking the law (sin) *Romans 3:19-20.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Also you have shown why salvation both can and cannot be lost, it is lost by the ones who seek to find it without Christ, and with Christ they know His ways of lowliness and meekness, which leaves it open to both can and cannot lose, cannot lose in faith, but it is the faith of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 14:12 [12], Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
So the rest, ( of the redemption and justification and blessing on the Gentiles of the Spirit through FAITH of Jesus Christ)...
There is no rest in disobedience and sin according to the scriptures. Isaiah 57:20-21 [20], But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt.[21], There is no peace, said my God, to the wicked. There is indeed rest found only in Christ to those who walk in His Spirit and have been born again not to practice sin *1 John 3:4-9; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 14:12.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I do. Where are you? And why don't YOU not repeat yourself? But I'm getting tired of your repetitions. If you don't want to discuss and explain the verses I've quoted, then please just don't keep responding with more repetitions. Thank you kindly.
Sorry dear friend but I do not believe you. All your posts have been addressed with detailed scripture responses that you choose not to address. I believe it is you who is responding with repetition. So unless you have something new to add that has not been addressed already in this OP by scripture then we will have to agree to disagree.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
See post #657. Q.E.D. . .Perfect demonstration of my point of the grand run-around. . .
Sorry I do not believe you. I prefer the scriptures already provided to you that disagree with you. You of course are welcome to believe as you wish. You have been corrected already so the rest is between you and God to work through. So we will agree to disagree and let God judge between us as shown in John 12:47-48 and not seek to judge each other as shown in Romans 2:1-8.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.